Unpopular DB opinions

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

I mean, why would/should anime-only details not signed off or later incorporated by Toriyama be considered canonical? This is the problem with considering everything canon unless told specifically otherwise you get people coming up with hair-brained theories like this.

It's Goku's house! He had to have known what it looked like. So why wasn't that communicated to TOEI?

[Xeogran]

Kenji Yamamoto plagiarized tracks are better than the originals.

Yamamoto is a great remixer. His Battle Point Unlimited (Trunks SSJ) theme is top notch, even if parts of it are taken from various different songs.

As far as pleasure to the ear goes, you're right.

[Scsigs]

It's Goku's house! He had to have known what it looked like. So why wasn't that communicated to TOEI?

I don't know. Given Toei often just let him be whilst they created random bullshit for filler, I don't think much was communicated between them, which resulted in said random bullshit. Like, they really should've asked before just brazenly assuming where Goku's house COULD be, or they could combine their heads, since I actually like their idea of it being built near Grandpa Gohan's house.

[MasenkoHA]

iThis is the problem with considering everything canon unless told specifically otherwise you get people coming up with hair-brained theories like this.

Anything official (i.e not fan work like DBZA or fan fiction) is technically canon. Including Dragon Ball GT.

As far as “this counts for this week” sort of thing obviously it’s fluid. If we’re only counting the manga(and the Super anime for some reason?) as gospel then we have to take account certain things like Trunks saying 19 and 20 are the Cyborgs that’s gonna kill everyone and then later “19 and 20 who? It’s 17 and 18!!” Or Toriyama later deciding 16 was modeled after Gero’s dead son. It’s a fictional work made by a guy who mostly made things up as he went along the rules can and do change.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

iThis is the problem with considering everything canon unless told specifically otherwise you get people coming up with hair-brained theories like this.

Anything official (i.e not fan work like DBZA or fan fiction) is technically canon. Including Dragon Ball GT.

As far as “this counts for this week” sort of thing obviously it’s fluid. If we’re only counting the manga(and the Super anime for some reason?) as gospel then we have to take account certain things like Trunks saying 19 and 20 are the Cyborgs that’s gonna kill everyone and then later “19 and 20 who? It’s 17 and 18!!” Or Toriyama later deciding 16 was modeled after Gero’s dead son. It’s a fictional work made by a guy who mostly made things up as he went along the rules can and do change.

And those are just the hard retcons. There's also all the soft retcons (Bulma going from a licentious character to a more reserved one, Ki proficient characters being able to formulate attacks of more than 3x their base power, Vegeta's tail never growing back despite him claiming it absolutely would). Canon in dragonball is an even bigger mess than canon in Star Trek, which is kinda impressive

[ABED]

And yet both franchises continue to find mass audiences, thus showing that canon doesn't matter.

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

I don't care about what you guys are arguing about up above me. It's a damn manga/anime and you are putting way too much effort and care into this. So going with the topic title, here are mine: (1) I like Resurrection 'F' and I enjoy watching it more than Battle of Gods and Broly. I think Broly is the best with the beautiful new art style and I love the fight choreography and fluid animation, but something that to this day I cannot figure out just makes me enjoy Resurrection 'F' more. Also, while I wish the level sets would resume production from where they left off, and I would even pay $80+ for each volume released, (2) I don't actually mind the video of the 30th anniversary set. Is it shit? Yes. But can I watch it without a problem? Also yes. I don't know why, but my brain just ignores all of the crap Funimation did to the video and I can watch it just fine. What I can't stand is the green tint in Boo Kai. Something about the colors being so noticeably off* just triggers me.

*: Don't get technical and try providing examples like "SEE?! THE 30TH SETS ARE NOTICEABLY OFF TOO!" I mean something more horrid and disgusting like Boo Kai compared to what we get in the 30th. The extra green is very noticeable in the picture. The colors not being what they originally were intended to be seen as is a different topic entirely.

[Scsigs]

Anything official (i.e not fan work like DBZA or fan fiction) is technically canon. Including Dragon Ball GT.

As far as “this counts for this week” sort of thing obviously it’s fluid. If we’re only counting the manga(and the Super anime for some reason?) as gospel then we have to take account certain things like Trunks saying 19 and 20 are the Cyborgs that’s gonna kill everyone and then later “19 and 20 who? It’s 17 and 18!!” Or Toriyama later deciding 16 was modeled after Gero’s dead son. It’s a fictional work made by a guy who mostly made things up as he went along the rules can and do change.

Here's the thing, I don't always like when Toriyama does it either. Some of his retcons, particularly in the last 2 arcs of the manga, are really bad & obvious. Like, Kingdom Hearts has those kind of retcons in every single game & I hate that it does because, like Toriyama, Tetsuya Nomura, I'm pretty sure, writes by the seat of his pants all of the time for multiple reasons in each game that creates multiple retcons. Now, at the start with both DB & KH, the retcons weren't that bad. I think a lot of the retcons on DB in the Saiyan Saga added more to the mythology & story rather than took away, even though it hard-shifted the narrative & focus of the story. Kingdom Hearts II did similar things. However, when we get to the Cell & Buu Sagas of the manga/Z, the retcons become more pronounced, as in less believable, &, in some cases, very stupid. Super has that same problem in places, mainly the Future Trunks arc, & I hate some of them. Kingdom Hearts, by the time it reached Dream Drop Distance, the retcons were too numerous, over-explanative, & stupid in some cases, they overload a lot of people.

However, what I'm talking about what is Toei's added content VS what Toriyama showed or later clarified or showed either in the material he's written or shared. It's analogous to the stuff the older English dubs introduced, where the script writers made some shit up on the fly or portrayed characters in some way, or made weird changes that are later contradicted, either because of what actually happened where they didn't bother to watch the series the whole way through, or because they didn't do a more close dub from the get-go, which was the result of several factors of the time. The only difference being that they could've had access to the later material via the manga or later episodes unlike Toei, who were literally adapting manga chapters, or parts of them, very closely behind the publishing of them into episodes of the anime.
GT cannot be canon. It's literally just a what-if alternate timeline if Super never happened, which, when it was being made, Super didn't exist. There are too many incongruities in terms of the continuity as a result of Super existing. It's just like the Z movies before Battle of Gods, where most of them have too many incongruities with both the manga & anime events to take place in the same timeline or universe. Which is why I'm not trying to say the filler material thought up by Toei is automatically invalid just for existing. I just don't consider it to have officially happened in the timeline we're expected to have followed for future DB material thought up or signed off on by Toriyama. It's a what-if, or an alternate timeline.
In fact, there's less of a headache when you do that, considering that's the official stance of the franchise right now going into the future material. Like, if you like the material Toei proposed in their filler back in the 80s & 90s in the animes, that's fine. It's just not material you're expected to take as part of the main timeline they're rolling with right now. Like, I wouldn't expect that, let's say, Toei would expect people to take material in from a Digimon Adventure 01 manga adaptation of the show for Adventure 02, Tri, & the new stuff they're working on unless they specifically told people to, even though they own the IP to Digimon. You would then take the events of the manga as a separate timeline in its own continuity. Like, Yugioh: Dark Side of Dimensions was a sequel to the manga's version of events adapted into Yugioh: Duel Monsters, the original anime, &, even though that anime adapted those events into it, it's an incredibly different experience over the manga, especially since Kaiba got a full wrap-up to his character arc int he anime, but not the manga, which is why he seems to be regressing as a character if you only followed the anime. You know what I mean? I mean, if we're gonna take the filler from the Z anime as canon, why not the versions of events from Kakarot? It adapted the filler & made up new filler for side quests & story sequences.

And those are just the hard retcons. There's also all the soft retcons (Bulma going from a licentious character to a more reserved one, Ki proficient characters being able to formulate attacks of more than 3x their base power, Vegeta's tail never growing back despite him claiming it absolutely would). Canon in Dragon Ball is an even bigger mess than canon in Star Trek, which is kinda impressive

Retcons from the person/people behind the original material are WAY different than inconsistent additions by the people adapting the original material. On top of that, Star Trek has these debates too. There are people who only consider TOS, TAS, & the first TOS movie canon, then there's the folks who only consider anything made with Gene Roddenberry's involvement or during his lifetime canon (TOS, TAS, & TNG), & then there's the people who consider the TV shows, the movies, & related tie-in material meant to set up those things (mainly prequel comics written by the movie writers of Star Trek '09 & Into Darkness to explain or expand upon certain things) canon, which is MY personal viewpoint. That's not even getting into the alternate timelines the shows represent. Because, if we take expanded universe novels & comics into account, then Star Trek has crossed over with Doctor Who & Planet of the Apes & original timeline Kirk was reborn, yet the franchise continues to exist despite those things without taking those into account. And those are just the more extreme examples.
Star Wars also had Disney declare the comics & novels from before they got the franchise as non-canon &, even then, it's probably sketchy to say what outside the movies & TV shows is canon. This made some hardcore Star Wars EU fans mad, but I think it's for the best, since it gives the writers of the TV & movie material more creative freedom.
Both of these franchises have had many different writers, showrunners, & producers over the years that have added different things over the years through retcons & there aren't a ton of inconsistencies that crop up between eras. Dragon Ball is an entirely different beast, since there's multiple adaptations, different mediums in which the material exists, & since there's a LOT of material in DB's 30+ year existence that we have access to, most of which is added material or non-serial stuff that disregards any sense of continuity to tell their stories or is made before Toriyama clarifies things in the manga or through interviews.

I don't care about what you guys are arguing about up above me. It's a damn manga/anime and you are putting way too much effort and care into this.

Bro, you're in a thread specifically designed to discuss unpopular opinions on a forum for fans of Dragon Ball. What the fuck do you mean we're putting too much effort & care into this? Where do you think you are?

[MasenkoHA]

Here's the thing, I don't always like when Toriyama does it either. Some of his retcons, particularly in the last 2 arcs of the manga, are really bad & obvious

I can’t help but feel you’re missing the forest for trees here. Continuity is a fluid thing. Toriyama can and has retconned portions of his story and made revisions. No different than when Toei does something and later it doesn’t matter.

GT cannot be canon. It's literally just a what-if alternate timeline if Super never happened, which, when it was being made, Super didn't exist. There are too many incongruities in terms of the continuity as a result of Super existing.

All that means is that GT cannot co-exist in the same timeline as Super. It doesn’t delegitimize GT for anything outside of “You can watch Super without seeing GT and be totally fine” Both GT and Super are just alternate sequels to Z. One doesn’t count more than the other. GT is Superman III with Richard Pryor and Super is Superman Returns if you will.

It's just like the Z movies before Battle of Gods, where most of them have too many incongruities with both the manga & anime events to take place in the same timeline or universe

And Battle of Gods, which was apparently declared canon when it was released, was overridden by Super retelling the story arc. Battle of the Gods works fine in context of Z (and I’d argue with a little back-bending could work with GT) but in the context of Super it can’t exist. Continuity is fluid in fiction.

.

. It's a what-if, or an alternate timeline.
In fact, there's less of a headache when you do that,

The idea of “this scene in an other wise plot important episode is in an alternate timeline” is just really dumb.

. It's just not material you're expected to take as part of the main timeline

What precisely makes Super “the main timeline” ? This whole argument seems built on the idea that Super is the main canon and if it doesn’t fit with Super, again a nostalgic cash grab on a 20-year old series, then it doesn’t count.

. You know what I mean?

No

I mean, if we're gonna take the filler from the Z anime as canon, why not the versions of events from Kakarot?

Both of those things are canon though. Kakarot is just a video game retelling of Z. .

[Planetnamek]

I kind of like the Dragon Ball GT rap theme(still better then a lot of popular rap music these days IMO)and I don't totally hate Mark Menza's score(though i'll admit it does sound kind of out of place)

I quite like Linda Young as Freeza and was bummed when she got replaced for Kai.

I don't mind some of Funimation's added dialogue and punch-ups.

Dale Kelly was my fave of the narrators and was letdown when I found out he got replaced for the DVDs.

I thought Resurrection F was quite good and I didn't care that it was blatant fanservice, it sure worked on me.

I kind of prefer the Ultimate Uncut editions of movies 1-3

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I kind of like the Dragon Ball GT rap theme(still better then a lot of popular rap music these days IMO)and I don't totally hate Mark Menza's score(though i'll admit it does sound kind of out of place)

I quite like Linda Young as Freeza and was bummed when she got replaced for Kai.

I don't mind some of Funimation's added dialogue and punch-ups.

Dale Kelly was my fave of the narrators and was letdown when I found out he got replaced for the DVDs.

I thought Resurrection F was quite good and I didn't care that it was blatant fanservice, it sure worked on me.

I kind of prefer the Ultimate Uncut editions of movies 1-3

The thing with Young is that they could have kept her on as Freeza for Kai but decided to go in another direction hence the role being recast to Chris Ayres, i believe it had something to do with the scripts or more "accurate to the source" path as the directors were going for someone closer to the Japanese VA and her take just didn't fit as compared to the Z dub previously. Of course, i'm not criticizing you for liking her voice but simply explaining as best i can why she wasn't retained for Kai.

[ABED]

Having finally finished Super, I wonder why people think Goku was "flanderized".

It pained me to write "flanderied"

[Doctor.]

Having finally finished Super, I wonder why people think Goku was "flanderized".

It pained me to write "flanderied"

He's far more childish, remarkably less intelligent and overall incompetent (but unlike Cell and Boo, not incompetent because his plan didn't work out, incompetent because he couldn't follow simple instructions) and clueless. They start to write him better once the ToP arc rolls around though, and the manga always had him more-or-less spot-on.

[Dbzfan94]

Having finally finished Super, I wonder why people think Goku was "flanderized".

Because of him constantly acting like his 12 year old self during the Pilaf arc.

[ABED]

Having finally finished Super, I wonder why people think Goku was "flanderized".

Because of him constantly acting like his 12 year old self during the Pilaf arc.

I don't see it. Okay the part about never having kissed Chichi was asinine, but that's about it

Also your reply isn't exactly helping me understand where you're coming from. He's always been a manchild

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

Having finally finished Super, I wonder why people think Goku was "flanderized".

It pained me to write "flanderied"

He's far more childish, remarkably less intelligent and overall incompetent (but unlike Cell and Boo, not incompetent because his plan didn't work out, incompetent because he couldn't follow simple instructions) and clueless. They start to write him better once the ToP arc rolls around though, and the manga always had him more-or-less spot-on.

The manga seemed to be on cleanup detail for a lot of weirder anime bits. Not sure whether that was because, as a comic, it needed to embrace brevity to move the plot along or if Toyotaro did it more deliberately. Either way it was a welcome change.

[Planetnamek]

I kind of like the Dragon Ball GT rap theme(still better then a lot of popular rap music these days IMO)and I don't totally hate Mark Menza's score(though i'll admit it does sound kind of out of place)

I quite like Linda Young as Freeza and was bummed when she got replaced for Kai.

I don't mind some of Funimation's added dialogue and punch-ups.

Dale Kelly was my fave of the narrators and was letdown when I found out he got replaced for the DVDs.

I thought Resurrection F was quite good and I didn't care that it was blatant fanservice, it sure worked on me.

I kind of prefer the Ultimate Uncut editions of movies 1-3

The thing with Young is that they could have kept her on as Freeza for Kai but decided to go in another direction hence the role being recast to Chris Ayres, i believe it had something to do with the scripts or more "accurate to the source" path as the directors were going for someone closer to the Japanese VA and her take just didn't fit as compared to the Z dub previously. Of course, i'm not criticizing you for liking her voice but simply explaining as best i can why she wasn't retained for Kai.

Oh I understand why she wasn't kept on and I do get wanting to be more faithful, this is more of personal preference on my part.

[Doctor.]

Even in the anime, I don't think he was overall too bad. His "Luffyness" (because the OP influence is likely what lead to his character change) only seemed to come up during the 'filler' in-between arcs and, more importantly, in the Zamasu arc. The BoG arc takes the character in a different (more disappointing, personally) way than the movie, but it's still realistically Goku; I actually think his portrayal in the F arc was superior to the movie; in U6 he was a bit off, but overall not too bad; and ToP nailed him for the most part outside of some select scenes. It was really the Zamasu arc, out of the main arcs, that dropped the ball when it came to his characterization.

[Dbzfan94]

Having finally finished Super, I wonder why people think Goku was "flanderized".

Because of him constantly acting like his 12 year old self during the Pilaf arc.

I don't see it. Okay the part about never having kissed Chichi was asinine, but that's about it

Also your reply isn't exactly helping me understand where you're coming from. He's always been a manchild

But not to the exaggerated degree. Biggest example was when Goku went to fight Zamasu in future. He acted like a kid high on sugar. Not even Kid Goku did that.

I dont see why Toyotaro's Goku gets a pass here. He's better in some select areas, but he's treated like Vegeta's idiot sidekick for most of the manga.

[MasenkoHA]

".

It pained me to write "flanderied"

Stand against asinine tv tropes lingo.