Unpopular DB opinions

[Danfun64]

Spoiler:

Scsigs, I pretty much agree with everything you said except for that last statement.

I’m gonna hard disagree with you and agree with Scsigs here.

The original dub, as bad as it is, is a finished product.

Is it though? The mid-arc switch from the Ocean Group cast to the Texas cast is awkward as hell. And while the Faulconer music is some what in that wheelhouse of Wasserman it’s still pretty jarring.

There’s the option to watch the in-house uncut redub of episodes 1-67 and then the original in-house dub after but that would be even worse.

The version of the dub shown on the Orange Bricks and onwards is based on an older base that isn't 100% in line with the original dub, meaning missing voice filters, (often problematic) alternate takes, and in the case of Faulconer specifically the occasional alternate placement.

Not sure if any of that matters. It kind if sucks to lose the voice filter on Super Buu so now he sounds exactly like Raditz but oh well.

Plus there's the matter of the jarring partial redub.

It is jarring but it’s also about as jarring as going from Ocean to funi

Even if the dub was 100% in sync with the original except for using Kikuchi instead of Team Faulconer's stuff, there's still the matter of Kikuchi not fitting the dub well at all. The dub was meant to go with the cheap, in-your-face Team Faulconer score instead of the subtler (and often silent) Kikuchi arrangements.

And this is my biggest disagree. Other than the bad acting standing out a tad more the Kikuchi fits fine just as it did with the Dragon Ball dub. I can actually watch the Z dub with Kikuchi and just sort of grimace at the bad acting and dialog with Faulconer my toleration doesn’t go very far. Hell, if you’re going to watch the dub and you’re going to watch Dragon Ball first (as you should) watching Z dub with Kikuchi just makes the most sense instead of Kikuchi>Wasserman or Johnson>Faulconer.

Now, if you’re wanting your nostalgic experience then go with the old original Vancouver/Texas dub of Z.

Of course, if watching the DBZ series with an English dub is what you're after, Funimation Kai is still the best option as of this writing. When Ocean Kai comes out and we can grade it, we may never know.....

Regardless Kai inherits the problems of being Kai. If you want to see the whole package including the filler you won’t get that with Kai and then there’s the whole music fiasco. If you like Kai (i.e don’t want any filler and you don’t mind the music thing) then yes that is the best English option.

All of the options for watching Z with an English dub are flawed. Let's ignore the Fillipino dub of Z and Ocean Kai since they're not available as of this writing. Let's also ignore Speedy because, hey, it's fucking Speedy, the realm of bad audio quality, bad acting, and Engrishy scripts.

You're right about how the transition from ep 67 to 68 will always be jarring no matter what you do. The remastered dub of ep 68 being partial doesn't do it any favors.

Ultimately, the classic Funi Z dub post Saban was an edited dub first and an uncut dub second. Even the uncut releases had a custom OP and ED that would need to be swiped out in order to sync with the uncut footage. Ep 68-70 never had recaps that even tried to sync with the uncut footage, and it wouldn't be until ep 85 that the eyecatchs would be shown on the English video track. And of course the NEPs weren't even trying to sync to the Japanese NEPs.

The Remastered dub, inconsistent as it is with it's partial redub and alternate takes, at least tried to follow what came before it as well as try to sync with the Japanese. The redubbed narrator covered 68-70 for the first time, and ep 68-84 were given eyecatches synced to the uncut footage for the first time. On the other hand, the remastered dub is a mess. On the other other hand, Funi should have tried keeping in continuity with the extreme censorship of the Saban dub and not try to make an uncut dub that follows it. Going from "the Namekians are exhausted/hiding/etc" to acknowledging their deaths, among other things, is jarring in its own right. As long as you stick with an English Z dub, you're going to deal with a mess. I didn't even mention Westwood Z, which while not as extreme censorship wise as Saban Z is still more censored than any variation of Funi Z (possibly even the YTV cut, unless it shares the Westwood dub's avoidance at referencing death).

And of course, Remastered with Kikuchi makes things even messier, as we go with a soundtrack that was never meant to be paired with the sub. Sure, it brings pseudo-consistency with the Funi DB dub, but two wrongs and all that.

You're definitely right about Z (the show, not the dub) being the superior product when compared to Kai. Especially the way the Saiyan saga is handled. Kai cut some filler (like Goku in Hell, which conflicts with how Boo Kai kept it's Hell scenes for some reason) but not others (IIRC the media wasn't trying to broadcast the right between our heroes vs Vegeta and Nappa in the manga. If that's correct, it happening in both animes creates a big plot hole considering how ignorant the general public is about Ki since Mr. Satan got popular in universe). Unfortunately, you have to choose between a poor attempt at removing filler, or more abundant dub errors and a less accurate feel to the show.

[Psajdak]

Both normal Zamasu, and Gattai Zamasu seemed, IMO, weaker than Black, simply because they weren't voiced by Masako Nozawa.

Shinichiro Miki is one of my favorite seiyu, and he's done amazing job in DBS, so it's not like I'm comparing him with Nozawa, but the way she provided Black her female voice in such deep, sinister way, there was just something about Black that felt dangerous, even though Gattai Zamasu is far more powerful in reality.

[SupremeKai25]

Both normal Zamasu, and Gattai Zamasu seemed, IMO, weaker than Black, simply because they weren't voiced by Masako Nozawa.

Shinichiro Miki is one of my favorite seiyu, and he's done amazing job in DBS, so it's not like I'm comparing him with Nozawa, but the way she provided Black her female voice in such deep, sinister way, there was just something about Black that felt dangerous, even though Gattai Zamasu is far more powerful in reality.

That's not really an unpopular opinion. From what I've seen, Black is the most popular version of Zamasu by far. A major reason for that is probably his creepy voice, he sounds a lot more unsettling than Zamasu. Zamasu sounds more godly and boastful, Black just sounds more sinister and ominous.

I personally prefer Fused Zamasu (who is basically 50% Black anyway), but I can see why Black would be your favourite based on the voice alone.

But yeah, Nozawa did an amazing job as Black. Sub Black > Dub Black imho.

[coola]

- 17 and 18 aren't weaker in Trunks timeline, they just hold back against Gohan and Trunks, so that they wouldn't broke their only "toys" left.
- I wish Tenshinhan never returned, both Toriyama and Toei have no idea what to do with him, and just keep making him look pathetic.

[Block88]

Nu broly is vastly overrated

Considering he's a rebooted version of the original, boring Broly, who was pretty base breaking to the fandom, & given better/actual & obvious motives, a better backstory, & is a part of one of the best movies in DB, as well as having a very good & important fight, I'd say he has the appropriate amount of hype around him.

Not really as a character he’s nothing special and really isn’t as great as people make him out to be
Sure compared to the old broly he may be better written but tbh he was practically lame compared to the one who was a old school monster heel

[Block88]

I think most of Dragon Ball Super is garbage. I prefer GT to it.

Part of me wishes we only got those three movies and the Tournaments were manga or game exclusive.

That’s not an unpopular opinion

It's not? Super seems praised on here and on YouTube.

I’ve seen folks here shit on super months ago and on YouTube as well
I made the same opinion in this thread and most folks pretty much told me it wasn’t exactly unpopular

[Noah]

I remember back in High School, I trained on a gym aiming to get a Super Vegeta-like body shape, but then I was frustrated cause I wasn't able to get bulky enough, so I quit it. Nowadays I'm confortable being somewhat between skinny and athletic, that's because I've grown to appreciate Super Saiyan God design

- 17 and 18 aren't weaker in Trunks timeline, they just hold back against Gohan and Trunks, so that they wouldn't broke their only "toys" left.

Is that an opinion or an afirmative?

[coola]

I remember back in High School, I trained on a gym aiming to get a Super Vegeta-like body shape, but then I was frustrated cause I wasn't able to get bulky enough, so I quit it. Nowadays I'm confortable being somewhat between skinny and athletic, that's because I've grown to appreciate Super Saiyan God design

- 17 and 18 aren't weaker in Trunks timeline, they just hold back against Gohan and Trunks, so that they wouldn't broke their only "toys" left.

Is that an opinion or an afirmative?

In my opinion they aren't weaker

[10gigtriforce]

I like autonomous ultra instinct better as a name than ultra instinct women. Like autonomous yeah makes more sense to me. He hasn't mastered it but his body can do it and did it on its own. Omen is like an omen of what? That he could maybe one day master it?

[ABED]

I remember back in High School, I trained on a gym aiming to get a Super Vegeta-like body shape, but then I was frustrated cause I wasn't able to get bulky enough, so I quit it. Nowadays I'm confortable being somewhat between skinny and athletic, that's because I've grown to appreciate Super Saiyan God design

- 17 and 18 aren't weaker in Trunks timeline, they just hold back against Gohan and Trunks, so that they wouldn't broke their only "toys" left.

Is that an opinion or an afirmative?

In my opinion they aren't weaker

What benefit is that to the story?

[coola]

I remember back in High School, I trained on a gym aiming to get a Super Vegeta-like body shape, but then I was frustrated cause I wasn't able to get bulky enough, so I quit it. Nowadays I'm confortable being somewhat between skinny and athletic, that's because I've grown to appreciate Super Saiyan God design



Is that an opinion or an afirmative?

In my opinion they aren't weaker

What benefit is that to the story?

Not much, just fun debate about power levels and timelines

[ABED]

I mean what benefit would it be to the story if they were just as strong in both timelines? The entire point is history is changing.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

Universe 7 should have lost the Tournament of Power and they should have been eliminated early. With every other universe gunning for them and their high level of disorganization, U7 should have been easy to take out.

And it would have made the arc better.

[ABED]

Universe 7 should have lost the Tournament of Power and they should have been eliminated early. With every other universe gunning for them and their high level of disorganization, U7 should have been easy to take out.

And it would have made the arc better.

And have the audience watch 40 or so episodes of characters they have no emotional attachment to? How is that a better arc?

[Scsigs]

Universe 7 should have lost the Tournament of Power and they should have been eliminated early. With every other universe gunning for them and their high level of disorganization, U7 should have been easy to take out.

And it would have made the arc better.

While I can see this, I don't think Dragon Ball Super's writing staff were strong enough writers to pull this off, nor do I think it would fit Dragon Ball's style of storytelling. The fact that they consistently misunderstood how to write Goku's character, flanderizing him into an idiot manchild who's more selfish than he should be (yes, I know Toriyama said Goku's inherently more selfish, but that only applies to Goku's need to get stronger & test his strength, it does NOT make him stupid or not love his friends or family as he does, that's not being selfish like Goku has been in DBZ, rewatch Z to see how Goku SHOULD be acting in those scenarios in Super), they bumbled the last half of the Future Trunks arc despite a very strong first half, & they added really bad filler to Battle of Gods & Resurrection F to pad them out to 13/14 episodes despite the movies pulling them off in an hour & a half to 2 hours. You don't want the writers or showrunners of Super doing that. If they can screw things up really badly with already-established characters we've known for over 30 years, who knows how badly they'd screw up with barely-established ones.

[ABED]

No writer is strong enough to pull it off. It's ridiculous on its face. What benefit you get from the surprise you would sacrifice in terms of emotional resonance.

They didn't misunderstand Goku's character and Flanderize is a dumb useless term. He does show love for his family in Super. I don't see where ANYONE watching the show gets that idea. That's not merely me disagreeing with you, it's apparently and Unpopular DB opinion because I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

While I can see this, I don't think Dragon Ball Super's writing staff were strong enough writers to pull this off, nor do I think it would fit Dragon Ball's style of storytelling. The fact that they consistently misunderstood how to write Goku's character, flanderizing him into an idiot manchild who's more selfish than he should be [...] they bumbled the last half of the Future Trunks arc despite a very strong first half, & they added really bad filler to Battle of Gods & Resurrection F to pad them out to 13/14 episodes despite the movies pulling them off in an hour & a half to 2 hours. You don't want the writers or showrunners of Super doing that. If they can screw things up really badly with already-established characters we've known for over 30 years, who knows how badly they'd screw up with barely-established ones.

True but a part of me wonders if they wouldn't flourish when pushed into unfamilar territory. And with the new characters being mostly blank slates for them to right from scratch, there would be no established characters for them to mess up.

No writer is strong enough to pull it off. It's ridiculous on its face. What benefit you get from the surprise you would sacrifice in terms of emotional resonance.

There was one emotional scene in the ToP arc and that was from a fighter that Gohan eliminates. The U7 warrior weren't fighting for anything or anyone. With the exception of Gohan's one scene, none of the U7 fights felt anything about the situation they were in and what they were doing to other worlds. And because they were winning so handedly there wasn't even any doubt who'd be the last team standing.

[WittyUsername]

No writer is strong enough to pull it off. It's ridiculous on its face. What benefit you get from the surprise you would sacrifice in terms of emotional resonance.

They didn't misunderstand Goku's character and Flanderize is a dumb useless term. He does show love for his family in Super. I don't see where ANYONE watching the show gets that idea. That's not merely me disagreeing with you, it's apparently and Unpopular DB opinion because I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing.

If memory serves, people didn’t make a habit of complaining about Goku’s characterization in Super until the Universe Survival arc. Many people argued that Goku was incredibly reckless and that he basically doomed seven entire universes, just so he could satisfy his lust for fighting. It doesn’t help that the beginning of the arc had Goku seemingly egging on the other universes.

Prior to that point, the biggest things people seemed to complain about in regards to his characterization were that he occasionally came across as a bigger idiot than usual (namely in the Monaka episode) and he had no idea what a kiss was.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

If memory serves, people didn’t make a habit of complaining about Goku’s characterization in Super until the Universe Survival arc. Many people argued that Goku was incredibly reckless and that he basically doomed seven entire universes, just so he could satisfy his lust for fighting. It doesn’t help that the beginning of the arc had Goku seemingly egging on the other universes.

Prior to that point, the biggest things people seemed to complain about in regards to his characterization were that he occasionally came across as a bigger idiot than usual (namely in the Monaka episode) and he had no idea what a kiss was.

And that he's never kissed his wife!

I'm sorry. It's a stupid thing to care about but I'm 90% that I'll still be complaining about it as I pick through the ruins of post apocalyptic New York.

[ABED]

As best as I recall, the tournament was always going to happen. He just pushed up the date.

I don't know about the Monaka thing. That seems classic Goku/Toriyama type humor, but I'll give you the kiss. But to go from a joke of questionable quality to "Goku is a caricature (please use this term instead of Flanderize which is a dumb goddamn term) of himself" is quite the stretch.

There was one emotional scene in the ToP arc and that was from a fighter that Gohan eliminates. The U7 warrior weren't fighting for anything or anyone. With the exception of Gohan's one scene, none of the U7 fights felt anything about the situation they were in and what they were doing to other worlds. And because they were winning so handedly there wasn't even any doubt who'd be the last team standing.

Emotional resonance doesn't mean being "emotional" in the way you make it sound. I mean the victories or losses resonate with the audiece. We feel exhausted, happy, sad, angry, concerned, elated, relieved, etc. The U7 warriors were fighting for their loved ones. I'm fairly certain they know what the stakes are by the time they start fighting. Now you're just making shit up. They weren't winning handedly. They go through hell to achieve their victory. We know they're gonna win in the same way we know Hogan will defeat Andre the Giant, but the only question is "How?"