Unpopular DB opinions

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Mad Swami
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:41 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:38 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:27 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:50 pm
It feels completely out of character for him. What about Piccolo leads you to think he would want to preemptively stop them? After merging with Kami, sure, but before?

I agree about Kuririn and Tenshinhan, though Kuririn does give a decent argument as to why they should wait to fight the cyborgs.
I forget Krillin's reason off the top of my head. My only issue with Piccolo is a lack of consistency. There are two back-to-back instances where the same option is presented and in both cases, he picks the opposite answer. So which is it? Does he stop problems before they start or seek to fight? Piccolo could have recommended they warn Dr. Gero and if he still goes through with it his loss. That's the most Piccolo response to the idea of the Z fighters finding Gero before the androids could attack. I think it's a small problem but I would still say it was weird. My only real problem with the arc honestly, I know some people have other issues but I think it's a super tight arc.
I can't remember the speech exactly but it's akin to the group became allies by facing threats like the Saiyans, but then tells Gohan if they train for the Cyborgs, Vegeta won't start trouble.

I know there's an inconsistency but why do you just assume Piccolo wouldn't want to fight the cyborgs like Goku and Vegeta? What about his character at that point makes you think he would want to stop them before they can destroy the world?
It's not that I don't think he would enjoy a fight, I just think he's too smart to let Gero just tinker away without at least suggesting something.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:11 pm

It's not about intelligence if his aim is to have a good fight. Again, I point to Piccolo wanting to fight Freeza well before Gohan was in danger.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:13 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:11 pm
It's not about intelligence if his aim is to have a good fight. Again, I point to Piccolo wanting to fight Freeza well before Gohan was in danger.
But he didn't have an opportunity to stop Frieza beforehand

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ABED
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:16 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:13 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:11 pm
It's not about intelligence if his aim is to have a good fight. Again, I point to Piccolo wanting to fight Freeza well before Gohan was in danger.
But he didn't have an opportunity to stop Frieza beforehand
He also didn't have to go to Namek but he wanted to. He wanted to fight Freeza when it was just a hypothetical. Piccolo isn't out to just survive. He was the former Demon King. He changed a lot even by that point but he still gets pleasure out of fighting. I don't think he would want to stop them until they had proven a sufficient threat beyond the words of teenager. At least with the Saiyans he had fought Raditz and just barely made it out alive. Against Freeza, he quickly regrets hitting the hornets nest. After fighting 20, he has little reason to suspect 17 and 18 are much stronger beyond Trunks' words. It's only after merging that I would buy him wanting to preemptively stop a threat.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Psajdak » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:22 pm

HokutoNanto519 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:45 pm
To starts things off, greetings! I'm a swedish dude who recently joined!
Welcome.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by RobertDaDon » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:48 pm

I don't know if this is or isn't an unpopular hot-take but here's mine.

Dragonball hasn't had an objectively good story arc or saga after the Namek Saga. Sure there have been good and even great moments since, but every single storyline since the Android arc has overall ranged from average to terrible.

That being said, I consider the Baby Saga from GT to be the most underrated story in the franchise and I don't think any saga from Super nor since the Android arc is overall better.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:59 pm

RobertDaDon wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:48 pm
Dragonball hasn't had an objectively good story arc or saga after the Namek Saga.
I personally think the Android and Buu arcs are just as good as the rest of the manga, but I understand why some consider them to be a downgrade in quality.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by precita » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:03 pm

While the original narrative has a fitting ending if the whole series ended with the Namek arc, every saga after gives something different and new to the franchise they feel like great continuation.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by HokutoNanto519 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:05 pm

Hello yet again, it's time for another round of "hot" unpopular takes.

First off, the series itself is awesome. Lovely artwork and paneling, great stroytelling and lovey usage of the things used as inspirations (martial arts movies, loads of mythology and wuxia).
The community on the other hand? Hellllllllllllllll no. I have seen scum upon scum upon scum throughout the past decade. We're talking about big shot youtubers/influencers who have done panels at conventions and excert a degree of influence that still can't properly behave like professionals.

My advice? Chill the hell out. It's just Dragon Ball. A comic literally aimed at children. It ain't worth working up all that sweat and anger about.

I have been thinking of making a "Dragon Ball: a decade of series, commercialization and community retrospective (perhaps franchise would be a better word?)" thread where we can discuss the highs and lows of Dragon Ball during the past decade with special attention to the series, the community and its commercialization. Hopefully we'll be able to manage and be mature in such a thread once the time comes (which is probably tomorrow or next week).

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by precita » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:06 pm

Chris Sabat's Vegeta has improved so much since the old dub. As someone who most recently watched Kai and Super dubbed, I went back to DBZ's dub after a long time watching random Cell saga episodes...and man...it sounds so off. And this was AFTER he largely stopped trying to imitate Brian's Vegeta during 'Season 3." Even for the whole Cell arc, it sounds so weird.

Chris Sabat didn't really start to get good in the role till the Boo arc, and even that is not like his current voice.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:31 pm

precita wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:06 pm
Chris Sabat's Vegeta has improved so much since the old dub. As someone who most recently watched Kai and Super dubbed, I went back to DBZ's dub after a long time watching random Cell saga episodes...and man...it sounds so off. And this was AFTER he largely stopped trying to imitate Brian's Vegeta during 'Season 3." Even for the whole Cell arc, it sounds so weird.

Chris Sabat didn't really start to get good in the role till the Boo arc, and even that is not like his current voice.
Though his Buu Kai performance is better acted, I actually prefer Sabat's original performance in the Babidi/Majin Vegeta episodes. That "I don't even feel it" line in the PuiPui episode was a huge highlight.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Scsigs » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:53 am

precita wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:06 pm
Chris Sabat's Vegeta has improved so much since the old dub. As someone who most recently watched Kai and Super dubbed, I went back to DBZ's dub after a long time watching random Cell saga episodes...and man...it sounds so off. And this was AFTER he largely stopped trying to imitate Brian's Vegeta during 'Season 3." Even for the whole Cell arc, it sounds so weird.

Chris Sabat didn't really start to get good in the role till the Boo arc, and even that is not like his current voice.
You could say that about basically every FUNi VA in the English dubs of DB material.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by precita » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:33 am

Scsigs wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:53 am
precita wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:06 pm
Chris Sabat's Vegeta has improved so much since the old dub. As someone who most recently watched Kai and Super dubbed, I went back to DBZ's dub after a long time watching random Cell saga episodes...and man...it sounds so off. And this was AFTER he largely stopped trying to imitate Brian's Vegeta during 'Season 3." Even for the whole Cell arc, it sounds so weird.

Chris Sabat didn't really start to get good in the role till the Boo arc, and even that is not like his current voice.
You could say that about basically every FUNi VA in the English dubs of DB material.
While that's true, a lot of the voices still sound "similar enough" as to their old selves just more refined.

Chris Sabat's Vegeta sounds very different than his old DBZ dubbed voice. I had wrongly remembered it being better by the time the Cell saga began, but it still sounded kinda off. By the dub of DBZ's Boo saga he started to nail down what would become his modern Vegeta voice. So it took all the way to the end of DBZ's original run.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:49 am

He still honestly sounded like off brand Brian Drummond in the Cell saga tbh. Kinda makes you wonder why they didn’t have him redub his dialog there.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by precita » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:12 pm

I still maintain all of DBZ should have been redubbed from start to finish but I know it'll never happen. We have Kai but I honestly miss a lot of the filler and scenes from DBZ and I would have liked the original series redubbed with the modern voice cast.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:34 pm

The Cell saga and the early Boo saga was sort of the awkward transition phase for Chris Sabat’s Vegeta, between the Brian Drummond impression, and the more gruff voice that he would later be known for. FUNimation most likely believed that Sabat’s Vegeta voice at that point sounded close enough to his then current voice for the character that people would be less likely to notice the difference.

Also, it’s possible that Sabat simply didn’t feel like redubbing anymore of his lines. Keep in mind, he also never bothered redubbing Piccolo, even though his Piccolo voice changed quite a bit between 1999 and 2005.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:20 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:34 pm
The Cell saga and the early Boo saga was sort of the awkward transition phase for Chris Sabat’s Vegeta, between the Brian Drummond impression, and the more gruff voice that he would later be known for. FUNimation most likely believed that Sabat’s Vegeta voice at that point sounded close enough to his then current voice for the character that people would be less likely to notice the difference.

Also, it’s possible that Sabat simply didn’t feel like redubbing anymore of his lines. Keep in mind, he also never bothered redubbing Piccolo, even though his Piccolo voice changed quite a bit between 1999 and 2005.
It was around that point more or less, and especially by the start of the Buu arc that his take for Vegeta really started sounding less of a poor attempt at sounding like Drummond as it had been in Season 3/4 and closer to the gruffer throaty one Sabat has used and gradually refined ever since the Ultimate Uncut dub or shortly before then. It's rather unfortunate that he felt it wasn't worth the effort of redubbing Piccolo, because the voice he did early on especially the later Freeza arc episodes in particular (Piccolo's arrival on Planet Namek, merging with Nail.etc) clearly sound like him having tried poorly to imitate Scott McNeil's take.

Comparing Sabat when he first started out as Vegeta back in 1999 to Kai onward or shortly beforehand is total night and day, his is by far one of the biggest vocal evolutions out of the core FUNi cast.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by HokutoNanto519 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:29 pm

Greetings yet again! I follow quite a few accounts on twitter. On that note, I have to say that I have seen a big trend :o .

That trend being that people are in a bubble of sorts where they staunchly avoid non-kids stuff. Let me explain in greater detail.

Practically all of those aforementioned people are hyper-focused on Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Dragon Ball, One Piece, Marvel movies, Star Wars, DC comics movies etc... it's all a bunch media intended for young children :wtf: . Wouldn't it be more fun to explore more stuff outside of that kind of bubble? Like, I see people barely making anything of their own. It's practically nothing but people taking a super well-known franchise (pretty much almost always shonen ones, too) and making fan art based on that. Occasionally they'll make stuff attempting to depict other stuff but lo and behold, it turns out to be yet another one based on a hyper-commercialized shonen manga/anime. I barely see "regular" folks talk about Martin Scorsese or Francis Ford Coppola for instance. Barely anybody is talking about manga series like Shamo, Souten no Ken or Maison Ikkoku :( .

What I wonder is the following: why continue to be stuck in such a bubble willingly :thumbdown: ? Is it really that interesting to wade around in the same tired old mega-franchises of the past that's being regurgitated for practically forever? Is it really that interesting to experience the same old mega-franchises wayyyyy past their prime crank out increasingly crappy stuff ? Like, is it so difficult to ask folks to lay down the crappy Shonen Jump magazine for once and experience other (read: adult-oriented) things instead?

Yes, I like Dragon Ball a lot. However....... there are boatloads of things out there that are just as good if not outright better than it. Next time you are thinking of, say, complaining about how the latest chapter of the latest ultra-commercialized shonen was disappointing, consider investing your time into something considerably more cultivating or rewarding things or experiences in life :thumbup: .

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:33 pm

HokutoNanto519 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:29 pm
Greetings yet again! I follow quite a few accounts on twitter. On that note, I have to say that I have seen a big trend :o .

That trend being that people are in a bubble of sorts where they staunchly avoid non-kids stuff. Let me explain in greater detail.

Practically all of those aforementioned people are hyper-focused on Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Dragon Ball, One Piece, Marvel movies, Star Wars, DC comics movies etc... it's all a bunch media intended for young children :wtf: . Wouldn't it be more fun to explore more stuff outside of that kind of bubble? Like, I see people barely making anything of their own. It's practically nothing but people taking a super well-known franchise (pretty much almost always shonen ones, too) and making fan art based on that. Occasionally they'll make stuff attempting to depict other stuff but lo and behold, it turns out to be yet another one based on a hyper-commercialized shonen manga/anime. I barely see "regular" folks talk about Martin Scorsese or Francis Ford Coppola for instance. Barely anybody is talking about manga series like Shamo, Souten no Ken or Maison Ikkoku :( .

What I wonder is the following: why continue to be stuck in such a bubble willingly :thumbdown: ? Is it really that interesting to wade around in the same tired old mega-franchises of the past that's being regurgitated for practically forever? Is it really that interesting to experience the same old mega-franchises wayyyyy past their prime crank out increasingly crappy stuff ? Like, is it so difficult to ask folks to lay down the crappy Shonen Jump magazine for once and experience other (read: adult-oriented) things instead?

Yes, I like Dragon Ball a lot. However....... there are boatloads of things out there that are just as good if not outright better than it. Next time you are thinking of, say, complaining about how the latest chapter of the latest ultra-commercialized shonen was disappointing, consider investing your time into something considerably more cultivating or rewarding things or experiences in life :thumbup: .
Why bring this up?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:53 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:20 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:34 pm
The Cell saga and the early Boo saga was sort of the awkward transition phase for Chris Sabat’s Vegeta, between the Brian Drummond impression, and the more gruff voice that he would later be known for. FUNimation most likely believed that Sabat’s Vegeta voice at that point sounded close enough to his then current voice for the character that people would be less likely to notice the difference.

Also, it’s possible that Sabat simply didn’t feel like redubbing anymore of his lines. Keep in mind, he also never bothered redubbing Piccolo, even though his Piccolo voice changed quite a bit between 1999 and 2005.
It was around that point more or less, and especially by the start of the Buu arc that his take for Vegeta really started sounding less of a poor attempt at sounding like Drummond as it had been in Season 3/4 and closer to the gruffer throaty one Sabat has used and gradually refined ever since the Ultimate Uncut dub or shortly before then. It's rather unfortunate that he felt it wasn't worth the effort of redubbing Piccolo, because the voice he did early on especially the later Freeza arc episodes in particular (Piccolo's arrival on Planet Namek, merging with Nail.etc) clearly sound like him having tried poorly to imitate Scott McNeil's take.

Comparing Sabat when he first started out as Vegeta back in 1999 to Kai onward or shortly beforehand is total night and day, his is by far one of the biggest vocal evolutions out of the core FUNi cast.
What I'm probably most impressed by with Sabat over the years is how much he's improved his vocal range. When his Vegeta voice first got really deep during the UUE era, he kinda stayed at one pitch at all times, leading to often awkward sound screaming scenes. But ever since Kai he can get his Vegeta and Piccolo voices pretty high up there for screaming, while still staying in the same vocal register. It's a lot more natural sounding. Vegeta has gotten much more Horikawa-ish as a result.
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