Unpopular DB opinions

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DBPirate
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by DBPirate » Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:42 pm

The criticism that Super is the "Goku show" is baseless and applies tenfold to GT.
Favorite sagas: Tien Shinhan (DB), Frieza (Z), Future Trunks (Super)
Favorite characters: Frieza, Future Trunks, Beerus, Android 17, Zamasu, Gohan

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:06 pm

DBPirate wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:42 pm The criticism that Super is the "Goku show" is baseless and applies tenfold to GT.
Yeah to be honest it's kind of funny when you think about it. Out of all the DB series, Super is the show with the least amount of Goku wanking. Just look at the arcs:

- BoG: He loses against 10% Beerus.
- RoF: He practically lost really, Whis had to rewind time.
- Universe 6: He lost and Monaka came in clutch at the end.
- Future Trunks arc: Self-explanatory.
- ToP: Goku needed to team up with Frieza to eliminate Jiren; and Android 17 won the Tournament of Power, instead of Goku the MC.
- Broly movie: He couldn't defeat Broly and needed to fuse with Vegeta.

In fact Goku is a big loser in Super, even in the Future Trunks arc in the end it wasn't even him that destroyed Fused Zamasu's body, but Trunks.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:17 pm

DBPirate wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:42 pm The criticism that Super is the "Goku show" is baseless and applies tenfold to GT.
Whining about any Dragon Ball series being “the Goku show” is fucking stupid. How dense do you have to be to not figure out who the main character is?

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:06 pm

Goku has always been the main character of Dragon Ball, and I don’t understand why anyone would think differently.

With that said, there is an argument to be made that GT does prop Goku up more than usual. He’s practically the only character in that show who’s actually useful in a fight. Everyone else is just fodder whose biggest contributions are giving their ki to Goku. Even Pan, who is undoubtably the deuteragonist of the show, is mostly there for Goku to save her.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:27 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:17 pm
DBPirate wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:42 pm The criticism that Super is the "Goku show" is baseless and applies tenfold to GT.
Whining about any Dragon Ball series being “the Goku show” is fucking stupid. How dense do you have to be to not figure out who the main character is?
I do wish that other characters in GT (besides Pan) were more effective in the series. But viewing GT through the lens that it's the grand finale, I enjoy it essentially being "Goku's Finest Hour."
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:01 am

I think DB doesn't have the greatest track record of knowing what to do with its cast but it's not as simple as giving a supporting character the victory or making it more of an ensemble story.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by goku the krump dancer » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:14 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:17 pm
DBPirate wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:42 pm The criticism that Super is the "Goku show" is baseless and applies tenfold to GT.
Whining about any Dragon Ball series being “the Goku show” is fucking stupid. How dense do you have to be to not figure out who the main character is?
You wouldn't believe how commonly this "criticism" was thrown around 12 years ago, people would use that their foundation alone when it came to bashing GT which they sometimes called "Goku Time". Though maybe it comes from the idea that for the most part the other characters weren't as fun to watch in GT as they were in original series so maybe it was frustration from that but even then it was silly then as its silly now to say that Dragon Ball shoudln't be about Goku when he's the main character.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jord » Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:56 am

I like that GT actually has Goku in I believe each episode. If you find Goku getting the spotlight annoying, episodes in which other characters are waiting/stalling for time so Goku can arrive are even more annoying and Z has plenty of those.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:34 pm

Jord wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:56 am episodes in which other characters are waiting/stalling for time so Goku can arrive are even more annoying and Z has plenty of those.
If you think about it, basically every main villain from Z except for Buu was basically this.

Saiyan saga: Everyone keeping Nappa and Vegeta busy until Goku arrives from otherworld
Frieza saga: Everyone keeping Frieza busy until Goku gets healed
Cell saga: Everyone keeping Cell busy until Goku ends his training (as well as androids before that, until Goku awakes)

Although Buu saga in the end turned out to be the same thing, they just didn't know he is going to come.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MyVisionity » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:18 pm

If the character usage and focus in GT appears different from the previous two series, it's because the show is trying to do something original and go in an entirely different direction. It's not simply the next installment or the third part of the story. To me it seems like Toei basically decided to disconnect in many ways from the other shows and create something new. Even if only for a limited amount of time.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jord » Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:19 am

sunsetshimmer wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:34 pm
Jord wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:56 am episodes in which other characters are waiting/stalling for time so Goku can arrive are even more annoying and Z has plenty of those.
If you think about it, basically every main villain from Z except for Buu was basically this.

Saiyan saga: Everyone keeping Nappa and Vegeta busy until Goku arrives from otherworld
Frieza saga: Everyone keeping Frieza busy until Goku gets healed
Cell saga: Everyone keeping Cell busy until Goku ends his training (as well as androids before that, until Goku awakes)

Although Buu saga in the end turned out to be the same thing, they just didn't know he is going to come.
Yup, at least GT doesn't pretend that it's not all about Goku. Other characters help here and there but I'm glad that they retired the "Goku is out of commision" trope. Such a shame too since I really like the beginning of the Namek part of Z, before it turned into "waiting for Goku's spaceship to arrive" followed closely after "waiting for Goku to heal in Freeza's ship"

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:47 am

sunsetshimmer wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:34 pm
Frieza saga: Everyone keeping Frieza busy until Goku gets healed
Not really no. Vegeta thought he didn’t need Goku and the others just ran with it

Cell saga: Everyone keeping Cell busy until Goku ends his training (as well as androids before that, until Goku awakes)
Again no. They just were focusing on hiding Goku from the Androids. And Vegeta was just trying to defeat Cell. He wasn’t trying to keep Cell busy until Goku finished his training.




The Saiyan saga is the only time the heroes trying to stall for time and keep the bad guys busy until Goku arrived was an actual plot point.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:54 pm

Maskenko, I think you're being a tad pedantic there (I know, the irony) but yes, pretty much everyone is just buying time for Goku to arrive. Sure, Vegeta's not, but everyone else is.

And it's pretty much a repeat with Cell. Sure they would like to defeat their enemies without Goku but they spend a good amount of time hoping Goku wakes up so he can save the day.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:17 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:18 pm If the character usage and focus in GT appears different from the previous two series, it's because the show is trying to do something original and go in an entirely different direction. It's not simply the next installment or the third part of the story. To me it seems like Toei basically decided to disconnect in many ways from the other shows and create something new. Even if only for a limited amount of time.
This. I don't see how this is a bad thing according to many. I mean execution? Okay, had flaws for sure. But saying GT is bad because it made Trunks and Pan main characters and not Vegeta is just silly. This is basically what DBS is, keeping everything the same from Z, the same cast with barely any changes to their designs either, just look at Goten and Trunks. Even DBZ wasn't the same as DB, so why would GT be like DBZ? People expected it to be just another DBZ season i guess, well it's not and never meant to be. I will always appreciate a fact we got female fighter as main protagonist for the first and only time so far. Even if she didn't do much as a fighter it was still refreshing. I like that they tried something different with series even if results weren't always satisfying.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:01 pm

Goku being taken out of the action, while the rest of the characters are left wondering what to do without him, is an infamously common trend in Dragon Ball that more or less began with the Piccolo Daimao arc. Toriyama used that plot point as a crutch for much of the story.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Jord » Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:35 am

WittyUsername wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:01 pm Goku being taken out of the action, while the rest of the characters are left wondering what to do without him, is an infamously common trend in Dragon Ball that more or less began with the Piccolo Daimao arc. Toriyama used that plot point as a crutch for much of the story.
It's an easy way to build tension but it's indeed overused. When it's used to much you shift your mindset from "will the currently active heroes beat the bad guy" to "Will Goku arrive in time?" which devalues the current fight.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:10 pm

I don’t get how people prefer Movie 10 over Movie 11. Yeah, neither of them are all that good and both should have had someone other than Broly as the villain. However, Movie 10 is so DULL and uninteresting, the epitome the DBZ films’ substancelessness and action for its own sake. At least Movie 11 had a minor “scientific disaster film” feature that distinguishes itself, not to mention the absence of Goku, Android 18’s presence, and Krillin actually being contributive. If only Broly was not the focus of this film, it would have been at been more than average.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:15 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:10 pm I don’t get how people prefer Movie 10 over Movie 11. Yeah, neither of them are all that good and both should have had someone other than Broly as the villain. However, Movie 10 is so DULL and uninteresting, the epitome the DBZ films’ substancelessness and action for its own sake. At least Movie 11 had a minor “scientific disaster film” feature that distinguishes itself, not to mention the absence of Goku, Android 18’s presence, and Krillin actually being contributive. If only Broly was not the focus of this film, it would have been at been more than average.
DB doesn't have much in the way of substance so I don't see the issue.

Goku's absence is not a selling point for me. I don't consider "scientific disaster film" some great distinguishing feature.

A big reason I don't like the movie is aside from going to the well a third time, the resolution was SEA WATER.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jamiljamtheman » Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:16 pm

I don’t care if it doesn’t “make sense”, Trunks’s DBS super rage form that he uses against Goku Black is awesome.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:03 pm

ABED wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:15 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:10 pm I don’t get how people prefer Movie 10 over Movie 11. Yeah, neither of them are all that good and both should have had someone other than Broly as the villain. However, Movie 10 is so DULL and uninteresting, the epitome the DBZ films’ substancelessness and action for its own sake. At least Movie 11 had a minor “scientific disaster film” feature that distinguishes itself, not to mention the absence of Goku, Android 18’s presence, and Krillin actually being contributive. If only Broly was not the focus of this film, it would have been at been more than average.
DB doesn't have much in the way of substance so I don't see the issue.
It certainly has less substance than the main story.
I don't consider "scientific disaster film" some great distinguishing feature.
Obviously it isn’t a full fledged disaster film, it just has elements of it. It’s something that isn’t found elsewhere in DB.
A big reason I don't like the movie is aside from going to the well a third time, the resolution was SEA WATER.
Why is that a bad resolution? Was it anticlimactic?
Although that random final appearance of Broly was a total asspull.

To be frank, I didn’t like this film much, either. Satan’s cousin (forgot his damn name) is a bit obnoxious, his scheme of making Bio fighters was quite loopy, and Broly was included to ride on his success. I just think it’s more bearable than its predecessor.
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