Unpopular DB opinions

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Kunzait_83
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:02 pm

Gaffer is spot-on that Saiyaman seemed like it was going to be THE next big storyline for DB. I was following the series' in its Japanese run regularly back then at that point, as well as online discussion for it: for the duration of that month or two (I could've sworn it was maybe slightly longer than that, but that's probably just the general fog of long-term memory), people genuinely thought that this was what we were going to be focused on for however long going forward. For that brief period it lasted, it was somewhat divisive for obvious reasons (yes, people complained and argued about new DB material and developments back in those days as well, though certainly not quite in the same manner that we've seen with Super).

For my part, while I do ultimately like the Saiyaman stuff as it is (especially in the anime, where I agree that it gets a bit more room to breathe and indulge in the concept more) I also definitely, if I'm being totally honest, wouldn't have been that fond of it at all if Saiyaman did in fact end up being the main direction that DB ended up taking for its final arc overall. It just wouldn't have meshed at all with Dragon Ball in general and felt way, way too disconnected, like an idea for a whole entirely different and unrelated manga that Toriyama awkwardly stapled onto Dragon Ball because there wasn't room enough in his schedule to do both. Plus I largely overall love the Boo saga as-is in general to begin with, warts and all. As it stands though, I'm totally fine with Saiyaman as a fun little short-lived diversion and transitional dovetail into the next arc.

In all honesty, my only real issue with the whole Saiyaman bit (manga or anime) is that Gohan never gets an actual, full-blown supervillain to face. A supervillain of a more classically Toriyama/Slumpian gag-oriented sort that is at least, both to match the general tone as well as to not suck too much of the air away from the main storyline to come. That lack of a costumed arch-enemy for Saiyaman feels like the one vital missing piece of the picture, as Saiyaman is (to put it mildly) hardly the sort of superhero who particularly screams Daredevil/Punisher/Batman-esque vigilante with a primary focus on street crime. He definitely needed some kind of ridiculous, silly costumed nemesis with superpowers and/or some absurd scheme for global dominance.

Hey, maybe Toriyama could've somehow brought back and worked in Pilaf to fulfill that role! :lol:

I definitely agree though that the schizophrenic nature of the Boo arc is where the seams really start to show in both Toriyama's improvisational approach to writing/drawing the series as well as in his general burnout with having worked on it week in and week out nonstop for almost a decade by that point. I also think that this is also why the anime for it is the one time where it feels like a genuine IMPROVEMENT over the manga, as what felt like rushed beats in the manga are given more breathing space in the anime (it also helps that the animation quality took a HUGE quantum leap forward after some pretty bad on and off lows during the Cell arc).

I will say this much though: on a fresh, first time-ever experience following it week to week/month to month in its original run, the Boo arc's constant zigzagging legitimately worked to its advantage. It lent the whole arc this anarchic, unpredictable "anything can happen" sort of feel, especially early on. Even with the benefit of time, hindsight, and being able to look at the whole thing finished, I'm still genuinely left surprised as to how well the whole thing still hangs together overall.

Its definitely more rickety and less tightly focused than earlier arcs, but not so much that it ever seriously torpedoes things. Gohan in general is really the biggest casualty of the arc's more pronounced than usual seat-of-its-pants nature, due to him being such a blatantly and constantly dropped thread: first as Saiyaman, then as Goku's successor against Boo. But that aside, the lion's share of it overall generally works astoundingly well; oftentimes in spite of itself, and definitely in no small part to Toriyama's natural gifts as both a comic artist and an idea man. Its chaotic as hell, but juuuuuuuuust controlled enough and executed with enough raw skill (however frayed around the edges from exhaustion) to generally hold together as a fun and suspenseful romp.

In a lot of ways, the Boo arc in general is the Dragon Ball equivalent to Marvel vs Capcom 2: totally thrown together wildly at the spur of the moment without the slightest hint of restraint or regard for inhibition: but done so by raw talent that's still skillful enough so that even at its sloppiest it still yields something that's genuinely a keeper... even if it feels at times like its only being just about barely held together with superglue and scotch tape.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by AnzuMazaki » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:47 am

Here are some more unpopular opinions from me.

I wanted Yamcha to be relevant in Super, the writing style with the character in Super depressed me.
I also wanted Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Roshi to last longer in the Tournament of Power as well.

I like the original anime the most out of the four anime (I still like Z, Super and GT though)

I wanted the Dr. Slump cast to age up like the rest of the cast in Super episode 69, and the Tsun Family not to have been given the Lunch treatment during that episode.

I am dreading any Saibaiman scene in the 2018 movie...for obvious reasons

I want Yamcha to appear in the last episode of Super as a silent cameo at least, just as long as he is celebrating with the others and not getting Crater'd.

I want Bulma and the other earthlings to be relevant in the next series, if there is any.

I miss the supporting cast because I have not seen them since June 2017 except for visions of HotBabe!Puar and the Vegeta family.

I love some of the filler in DB and Z, Especially the DB filler and the two groups of orphans (Pigero and the other earthling kids from the wrecked city and the Space kids from the mirror ship) and Lime in Z,
It would have been nice to see not only them as adults but also characters like Upa, Suno, Sharpener and Erasa in Dragon Ball Super.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GamerSkull » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:05 am

AnzuMazaki wrote:Here are some more unpopular opinions from me.

I wanted Yamcha to be relevant in Super, the writing style with the character in Super depressed me.
I also wanted Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Roshi to last longer in the Tournament of Power as well.

I like the original anime the most out of the four anime (I still like Z, Super and GT though)

I wanted the Dr. Slump cast to age up like the rest of the cast in Super episode 69, and the Tsun Family not to have been given the Lunch treatment during that episode.

I am dreading any Saibaiman scene in the 2018 movie...for obvious reasons

I want Yamcha to appear in the last episode of Super as a silent cameo at least, just as long as he is celebrating with the others and not getting Crater'd.

I want Bulma and the other earthlings to be relevant in the next series, if there is any.

I miss the supporting cast because I have not seen them since June 2017 except for visions of HotBabe!Puar and the Vegeta family.

I love some of the filler in DB and Z, Especially the DB filler and the two groups of orphans (Pigero and the other earthling kids from the wrecked city and the Space kids from the mirror ship) and Lime in Z,
It would have been nice to see not only them as adults but also characters like Upa, Suno, Sharpener and Erasa in Dragon Ball Super.
I basically agree with all of these. I hope Yamcha makes at least a silent cameo in Super... as long as he isn't getting memed on. Well, any scene as long as he isn't memed on.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Omniboy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:40 am

I hear a lot about how having all the current saiyans (atleast in Goku's universe) becoming super saiyans made the form itself seem mundane and not unique, but it never did that to me tbh. It always felt special to me, even when present Trunks and Goten transformed. It's only a few saiyans that can do it, some of which have genetic mutations that allow them to transform in to it at a young age, or in some others case, working extremely hard, and enduring training that puts them far above any of the deceased saiyans in term of power.

The only thing I am iffy about is the amount that they have, even though I think a lot of them look pretty cool.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GamerSkull » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:15 pm

Gohan and Videl are the only good couple/pairing in all of Dragon Ball.

All the other ones are crap in comparison.
Last edited by GamerSkull on Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:16 pm

GamerSkull wrote:Gohan and Videl are the only good couple/pairing in all of Dragon Ball.

All the other ones are crap in comparison.
I don't get the sense that it's an unpopular opinion amongst the fandom.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GamerSkull » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:28 pm

ABED wrote:
GamerSkull wrote:Gohan and Videl are the only good couple/pairing in all of Dragon Ball.

All the other ones are crap in comparison.
I don't get the sense that it's an unpopular opinion amongst the fandom.
Really? I see a lot of VegeBul shippers and I don't really like that pairing at all. Figured it was the most popular though.

And while I like Chi-Chi and Goku together... it's not really that good of a relationship based on what I've seen. And Super seems to make it worse.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:41 pm

Sure there are plenty of people that like Vegeta and Bulma together, but I get the general sense that people would agree that the only real romance that worked was Gohan and Videl. I think most will agree that Chichi and Goku aren't a great couple.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GamerSkull » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:51 pm

ABED wrote:Sure there are plenty of people that like Vegeta and Bulma together, but I get the general sense that people would agree that the only real romance that worked was Gohan and Videl. I think most will agree that Chichi and Goku aren't a great couple.
I suppose you're right about Vegeta and Bulma. But based on the attention it has gotten recently and the amount of stuff I see on Twitter and Tumblr. It seems to be the most popular.

Although, those places aren't particularly the best place to go to notice those kinds of things, I guess.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:06 pm

I'm so out of the loop regarding Super. I haven't watched a single episode and I don't follow the conversations closely. For decades, I've been used to DB, DBZ, and GT. I keep forgetting about Super, which obviously changes the conversation.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GamerSkull » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:08 pm

ABED wrote:I'm so out of the loop regarding Super. I haven't watched a single episode and I don't follow the conversations closely. For decades, I've been used to DB, DBZ, and GT. I keep forgetting about Super, which obviously changes the conversation.
I'm not really a fan of it. I actually prefer DB, Z, and GT over it.... but the slice-of-life episodes in the show are pretty good.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jeffbr92 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:52 pm

ABED wrote:I'm so out of the loop regarding Super. I haven't watched a single episode and I don't follow the conversations closely. For decades, I've been used to DB, DBZ, and GT. I keep forgetting about Super, which obviously changes the conversation.
You have no interest in watching it?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:02 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:
ABED wrote:I'm so out of the loop regarding Super. I haven't watched a single episode and I don't follow the conversations closely. For decades, I've been used to DB, DBZ, and GT. I keep forgetting about Super, which obviously changes the conversation.
You have no interest in watching it?
I wouldn't be against it, but I don't have any pressing desire to do so.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MajinMan » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:19 am

ABED wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:
ABED wrote:I'm so out of the loop regarding Super. I haven't watched a single episode and I don't follow the conversations closely. For decades, I've been used to DB, DBZ, and GT. I keep forgetting about Super, which obviously changes the conversation.
You have no interest in watching it?
I wouldn't be against it, but I don't have any pressing desire to do so.
The show is basically over, which you probably know already. Watching it now for the first time without having the annoying 1 week break (sometimes 2 weeks) between each episode is something I wish I could have experienced, but oh well. You also won’t have to deal with the week to week arguments and debates that were going on after each episode, which I consider a plus.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:26 am

MajinMan wrote:
ABED wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:
You have no interest in watching it?
I wouldn't be against it, but I don't have any pressing desire to do so.
The show is basically over, which you probably know already. Watching it now for the first time without having the annoying 1 week break (sometimes 2 weeks) between each episode is something I wish I could have experienced, but oh well. You also won’t have to deal with the week to week arguments and debates that were going on after each episode, which I consider a plus.
Well, it's certainly a different experience. I've watched plenty of shows live and then binged watched them. It is definitely a difference experience. I enjoy the debates in the days between episodes, so that's not an issue for me, but I prefer watching at my own pace.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cipher » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:37 am

Having recently reread the Saiyaman chapters in Japanese, I'm now ready to disagree with the conventional wisdom that the anime is a massive improvement, or that the manga feels as if it abandons its joke.

Yes, there is a clear shift away from Gohan as a permanent (or even longterm) main character, as the return of Goku is teased not two months after Kame-Sennin proudly announces on a title page that Gohan will be taking his place as protagonist. So, yes, the reality is that there was some behind-the-scenes reconsideration. But as a finished product, the Saiyman material feels like it's given all the space it needs—it's a constant series of jokes at poor Gohan's expense (he isn't taken seriously by his first criminals, but scares them away after they make fun of his name; gets mocked by a student talking about Saiyaman in the hallway for the same reason; can't manage to find Videl before her fight starts and isn't needed when he gets there; is immediately recognized through his costume even though the whole point was to allow him to fight crime and fly to school unnoticed)—that serves as a character gag to transition Gohan into training Videl and preparing for the tournament. The punchline, for all of the two or three chapters it lasts, its its utter anti-climax, and immediate outing by Videl.

We know plans for the arc changed, but I'm honestly not sure the length or handling of the Saiyaman material was part of them. It's hard to imagine it'd look much different even with a tighter outline for the arc.

Which isn't to say that I don't like the anime's expanded interpretation too. There's a lot of fantastic stuff there. But it doesn't feel like the manga is missing anything.
Last edited by Cipher on Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MajinMan » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:37 am

ABED wrote:
MajinMan wrote:
ABED wrote:I wouldn't be against it, but I don't have any pressing desire to do so.
The show is basically over, which you probably know already. Watching it now for the first time without having the annoying 1 week break (sometimes 2 weeks) between each episode is something I wish I could have experienced, but oh well. You also won’t have to deal with the week to week arguments and debates that were going on after each episode, which I consider a plus.
Well, it's certainly a different experience. I've watched plenty of shows live and then binged watched them. It is definitely a difference experience. I enjoy the debates in the days between episodes, so that's not an issue for me, but I prefer watching at my own pace.
Oh don’t get me wrong, the debates can surely be fun and can even make you see things differently, but this is the Dragon Ball fandom we’re talking about. For every good debate, there’s always another obnoxious portion that tends to overdramatize every little thing and cause a big commotion, leading to pointless fandom fights. It gets tiring after 128 episodes and 3 years.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ProtoTrunks76 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:28 pm

I don't know how unpopular of an opinion this is, but...

In terms of which vocal theme I would choose for Future Trunks, I think "The Lone Warrior" is better than "Hikari no Willpower".

Now, I like both themes; they're pretty damn good. But, the lyrics to the latter are so vague that I'd hardly associate it with Trunks (hell, if you really wanted to, you could apply it to Future Gohan). The song "The Lone Warrior", in my opinion, is just a better theme because much more clearly Trunks' theme and can't really be applied to any other character.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:45 am

I like how Gohan looked in the RoF saga, many peoole hate the tracksuit just because they associate it with Gohan beign weak. I think it looks good on him. I also prefer his hairstyoe in this arc, it feels like a more natural progression of his hair from when he was a kid. I hate his Yamcha hairstyle, especially Now that they removed the bang in his normal state. I also hate how Ultimate became a transformation.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Michsi » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:57 am

Vegeta_Sama wrote:I like how Gohan looked in the RoF saga, many peoole hate the tracksuit just because they associate it with Gohan beign weak. I think it looks good on him. I also prefer his hairstyoe in this arc, it feels like a more natural progression of his hair from when he was a kid. I hate his Yamcha hairstyle, especially Now that they removed the bang in his normal state.

I also liked his tracksuit look, hairstyle and everything.

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