Unpopular DB opinions

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BernardoCairo
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by BernardoCairo » Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:39 pm

Modern_Dingus wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:30 am 2. Is DBS Broly considered a bad movie by most????

6. I feel like this is one of those bell curves, like if we're considering anybody who likes "Dragon Ball" from the most casual to the most hardcore, DBZ is the most popular, but on sites like this where the majority are closer to being
DBS Broly isn't considered by most as a horrible movie. Most say that it's enjoyable. However, I've seen again and again people say that it drops its plot in the middle in favor of battle, when the fight is an actual important piece of the story and the set up to said fight was good (I really like the first half of the movie). Some even say that it's as well written as Fukkatsu No F, which is a horrible take.
As for which Dragon Ball is more popular, I would say that you're right. Most of us, hardcore fans, see Dragon Ball as a singular story (as presented in the manga). But, if we had to split it in two... OG Dragon Ball might be the more popular. Especially among Toriyama's more hardcore fans (those who like Dr Slump and the one shots he produced before and after Dragon Ball's serialization).

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MrGohanks » Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:33 pm

dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:52 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:10 pm
Literally any time Goku is out doing/getting something he’s not?

Every motivation he feels in Super comes from jealousy, giving the illusion that he's this hard worker who cant’ get the better end of the stick... except again, he was the prodigy. If he started being like 10k more powerful that Goku and immediately fell behind to always be whining about “surpassing” Goku it’s proably cus he doesn’t know how to train effectively.


I’m not making sense because I considered Shenron’s statement, a statement?

He went on for 5 minutes about what a SS God is and never said it was simply a form obtainable by any Saiyan who is able to get God Ki through any means.

And yeah, Goku giving Vegeta "props" for it is exactly the exposition that I mean. It's just a mention. Which you accept fine for Vegeta, but whenever Goku gets something in that way, then you call it "an asspull".

[/b]
It's not dumb when these "in universe facts" are achieved with retcons.
I wasn’t talking exclusively about transformations either, I just gave one example. His "win" in the latest film is another one.

They resorted to Goku being all of a sudden against meditation (???) to be able to justify that little fan-service.

Also it's absurd for you to say Goku looks bad because he's open to learn from others when the first time Vegeta has become on par with Goku happened after he accepted to learn from others.

Bro, do you even watch or read Super lol?

- There's not a single scene of him of Super complaining about Goku doing anything while he doesn't, you failed to point out a single example while spewing your biases.
I failed in my assumption that you didn’t need each instance to be spelled out..

But from top of my head,
- Vegeta leaving his family trip the instant he thinks about Goku, then complaining about Goku being #1 in the next scene..?
When has that ever happened? What episode or chapter? It sounds like you are just making shit up just to be a butthurt hater as usual
- Vegeta whining about his boring training when Goku is absent on his Hit project
Vegeta never mentioned Goku once during his training with Whis (which wasn't really training at all, just a way to waste his time) and he had no idea Goku was having a rematch with Hit until it was over
- Vegeta complaining to Goku about UI (don’t know why you’d say he didn’t care, it’s as if you watched a different show) followed by a sad and desperate attempt unlock it himself lol
He never complained about Goku having UI at all, he attempted to get it himself because Goku failed in his first fight against Jiren and the universe was at stake. You are clearly reaching badly with that claim lmao

- "Every motivation he feels comes from jealousy", bullshit lmao. Super and even GT made it clear that his new primary motivation is keeping the Earth and his family, Goku is just a side thing that he doesn't even consider personal anymore. None of Vegeta's 3 biggest power upgrades (SSBE, Yarthat training, UE) had anything to with Goku. In fact, when Goku unlocked UI for the first time in the ToP Vegeta didn't really seem to care at all (and he's never shown complaining about any additional powerup Goku gets from there, he didn't even complain about SSG in BoG, so your argument is complete BS lol).

I don’t know if you’re trolling me right now or you have some sort mental filter that doesn’t let you receive anything you don’t like.

Like do you not remember WHAT made Vegeta beg Whis to train him in the first place..?
A chance reach God levels of power? He never even mentioned Goku when he was trying to convince Whis to train him, and when Goku visited Vegeta after the 6 months of training Vegeta didn't even try to rub it in Goku's face that he's stronger than him now. So this other argument of yours also fails


- Vegeta never said at any point that SSG wasn't ever achievable without the ritual, in fact not even Shenron did, that's just BS headcanon that you made up. There is no retcon, you are just mad that the series doesn't support your headcanon.
Huh? What headcanon dude. I said Shenron never mentioned any other way to achieve SSG and he factually didn’t.
This is an Appeal to Ignorance fallacy. Shenron never said that there was no other to unlock SSG and nobody even tried to ask about other ways. You just baseless l assumed there was no other way

Just because a character you hate gets any kind of shine or attention doesn't mean it's cheap fanservice or a retcon, that's just you projecting your hate onto the series.
‘Projecting hate’ lol yeah forgive me if I’m a little annoyed by Goku being LITERALLY RETCONNED to justify Vegeta getting his long awaited “1st win” for the 3rd time.
What "retcon" are you talking about? Do you enjoy spewing butthurt nonsense without proof?

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MrGohanks » Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:41 pm

Grimlock wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 3:02 pm No, I'm just saying Vegeta getting Super Saiyan God/god Ki without the ritual doesn't constitute a retcon based on this quote below, I'm reiterating what's been said here, as some people often think that there's a retcon without realizing the continuities thing. Even though it's possible to achieve it through other means, we need to keep in mind that stuff happened differently.
MrGohanks wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:52 pm- Vegeta never said at any point that SSG wasn't ever achievable without the ritual, in fact not even Shenron did, that's just BS headcanon that you made up. There is no retcon, you are just mad that the series doesn't support your headcanon.

What I didn't get is if you are talking while sticking to the anime continuity or speaking in general. If it's the former, I apologize. I missed the point then.
The Movies and the Manga themselves never imply that Vegeta used the ritual to unlock SSG (the assumption that he used the ritual doesn’t explain why they didn't just do it with the other Saiyans as well. It would have come in handy during RoF).

There's no retcon in either version because netither Vegeta using the ritual nor the ritual being the only way to get SSG were never established facts in the first place.

Also, both Goku and Vegeta unlocked SSB at the same time in one year by training with Whis together, so there's no reason to assume the weaker SSG couldn't be unlocked the same way.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:25 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:24 pm I've got some really unpopular opinions lol

I'm not sure if I shared before (I definitely did somewhere, just not sure if it was in this thread), but here are some of mine:

1. BRING ON THE INACCURATE ADAPTATIONS
I don't mind at all. Make them weird! Make bad choices! Name changes? Sure! Replacement score? Yes, please! I'm not saying that I'd like just anything, but the more, the merrier. It's just another reason to get excited to watch the same thing for the 300th time. One of the most joyful things that happened to me regarding this series, is finally getting to watch the Blue Water and Westwood dub of the series. It just reinvigorated my curiosity and desire to watch the series again. Just don't screw with the original Japanese version and I'm good. Other than that, it's like having different versions of the same material.

I know that this could create confusion and more causal fans might not get the "true" story, but I think it's like any of us--those who are interested enough will find out.

2. I LIKE GOKU AS A CLICHÉ SUPERHERO
When I was a kid, I was really turned off by the squeaky clean image that Funimation presented Goku as. I gravitated toward Vegeta the same way that I gravitated toward Batman over Superman. But, somewhere along the way, I grew out of that and started to really enjoy the idea of just a hero who chooses what's right over anything else.

I'm not saying that Goku should be all "ally to good, nightmare to [evil]!" but I don't think he should be all "ba-ha-ha-ha-ha; I guess I accidentally saved the universe because I really wanted to fight that guy; ba-ha-ha-ha-ha!" either. Somewhere in the middle is nice. Gohan is nice.

3. I DON'T GET THE FATHER-SON RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GOHAN AND PICCOLO
Whenever I see someone posting this, it just seems like such a cookie-cutter, shallow analysis. Why? Why is Piccolo a "better father" to Gohan than Goku? In fact, how is Piccolo's relationship to Gohan "fatherly" at all?

Goku was with Gohan for the first five years of his life. Then, stuff happened, Goku died, and Piccolo kidnapped Gohan to train him because Piccolo saw that Gohan could be of use against the Saiyans. Yes, they got close. Yes, Piccolo felt something for Gohan... in the (almost) year that he knew him. Yes, Piccolo sacrificed himself for Gohan. Yes, Gohan wanted to bring Piccolo back. And... that's pretty much it, right?

So this "father-son" relationship lasted a year? Because since Piccolo was wished back on Namek, we don't really get anything else between Gohan and Piccolo. Yeah, Piccolo trained with Goku and Gohan for the androids. Yeah, Gohan wanted to wear Piccolo's gi. Sure. But how is that a "father-son" relationship? That's more of a friend or master. Then, Piccolo lives with Dende and Popo.

We never really get anything else heartwarming between Piccolo and Gohan until Resurrection F/Super, with Piccolo babysitting Pan (after years of fans hyping up this "relationship" between Gohan and Piccolo).

On the other hand, Goku has a ton of heartwarming moments with Gohan. Their training for Cell, Goku's belief in Gohan to beat Cell, Goku's sacrifice and goodbye to Gohan. Goku's return from Other World. Goku interacting with Gohan on Old Kaioshin's planet.

Piccolo's only interactions with Gohan after Namek are kind of "Oh, hey!" and telling at Goku when Goku believed that Gohan could beat Cell.

4. GOTEN AND TRUNKS ARE POINTLESS AND KINDA SUCK
Future Trunks was awesome! Very, very cool character. And clearly, to have a future Trunks, there must be a present Trunks. And I think Goten was just kind of shoved into the story to have someone for Trunks to bounce dialog off of. There was clearly no real plan or interest in making them compelling characters.

5. FUSION SUCKS
The biggest cop-out in the series and creates a lot more questions than necessary. Never liked fusion--they weren't real characters.

6. I THINK THAT THE ENGLISH-SPEAKING FINAL BOUT VOICE ACTORS WOULD BE GREAT (FOR THE MOST PART)
I'm a very nostalgic guy. But, I realize this and can pass judgment on something that's bad. It's just that I do kind of constantly think of things that bring me back to my childhood... like the terrible Final Bout video game that I had so much fun with because I didn't know any better.

Yes, this is something I still think about. And I like going back and listening to the terrible performances of the English-translated version. But was it that bad? I often thought that the voice acting was terrible, but now, I think that this actors could definitely do a great job with a proper dub. I find myself wondering how they'd sound like when they had some real dialog with good directing behind it, not just one-off lines for a video game.

I thought Steve Blum is amazing, but he's no Goku... but why not? I found myself thinking that there's nothing that someone like Sean Schemmel brings to the performance that Blum couldn't do. Yeah, he sounds awkward as Goku in Final Bout, but I know his chops, I know his range. He's be great! And honestly, the rest of the cast was pretty great! I really liked Trunks's and Gohan's voices. The others are generally good based on their other works. Kind of felt like Daniel Woren would make a better Vegeta than Piccolo, Tom Wyner's Cell was bad (though he could be good in other roles), and I wasn't feeling Milton James's Vegeta, but again, how would they fare if they were given a real shot?

This is the nutty crap I think about: how 1997 one-off-cast voice actors for a terrible video game would do with a real shot at dubbing the series.
You have it backwards, other than some notable hiccups GT's Blue Water is more accurate and true to the original japanese. But I still agree with this post and the opinions spoused within are awesome.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:25 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:24 pm I've got some really unpopular opinions lol

I'm not sure if I shared before (I definitely did somewhere, just not sure if it was in this thread), but here are some of mine:

1. BRING ON THE INACCURATE ADAPTATIONS
I don't mind at all. Make them weird! Make bad choices! Name changes? Sure! Replacement score? Yes, please! I'm not saying that I'd like just anything, but the more, the merrier. It's just another reason to get excited to watch the same thing for the 300th time. One of the most joyful things that happened to me regarding this series, is finally getting to watch the Blue Water and Westwood dub of the series. It just reinvigorated my curiosity and desire to watch the series again. Just don't screw with the original Japanese version and I'm good. Other than that, it's like having different versions of the same material.

I know that this could create confusion and more causal fans might not get the "true" story, but I think it's like any of us--those who are interested enough will find out.

2. I LIKE GOKU AS A CLICHÉ SUPERHERO
When I was a kid, I was really turned off by the squeaky clean image that Funimation presented Goku as. I gravitated toward Vegeta the same way that I gravitated toward Batman over Superman. But, somewhere along the way, I grew out of that and started to really enjoy the idea of just a hero who chooses what's right over anything else.

I'm not saying that Goku should be all "ally to good, nightmare to [evil]!" but I don't think he should be all "ba-ha-ha-ha-ha; I guess I accidentally saved the universe because I really wanted to fight that guy; ba-ha-ha-ha-ha!" either. Somewhere in the middle is nice. Gohan is nice.

3. I DON'T GET THE FATHER-SON RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GOHAN AND PICCOLO
Whenever I see someone posting this, it just seems like such a cookie-cutter, shallow analysis. Why? Why is Piccolo a "better father" to Gohan than Goku? In fact, how is Piccolo's relationship to Gohan "fatherly" at all?

Goku was with Gohan for the first five years of his life. Then, stuff happened, Goku died, and Piccolo kidnapped Gohan to train him because Piccolo saw that Gohan could be of use against the Saiyans. Yes, they got close. Yes, Piccolo felt something for Gohan... in the (almost) year that he knew him. Yes, Piccolo sacrificed himself for Gohan. Yes, Gohan wanted to bring Piccolo back. And... that's pretty much it, right?

So this "father-son" relationship lasted a year? Because since Piccolo was wished back on Namek, we don't really get anything else between Gohan and Piccolo. Yeah, Piccolo trained with Goku and Gohan for the androids. Yeah, Gohan wanted to wear Piccolo's gi. Sure. But how is that a "father-son" relationship? That's more of a friend or master. Then, Piccolo lives with Dende and Popo.

We never really get anything else heartwarming between Piccolo and Gohan until Resurrection F/Super, with Piccolo babysitting Pan (after years of fans hyping up this "relationship" between Gohan and Piccolo).

On the other hand, Goku has a ton of heartwarming moments with Gohan. Their training for Cell, Goku's belief in Gohan to beat Cell, Goku's sacrifice and goodbye to Gohan. Goku's return from Other World. Goku interacting with Gohan on Old Kaioshin's planet.

Piccolo's only interactions with Gohan after Namek are kind of "Oh, hey!" and telling at Goku when Goku believed that Gohan could beat Cell.

4. GOTEN AND TRUNKS ARE POINTLESS AND KINDA SUCK
Future Trunks was awesome! Very, very cool character. And clearly, to have a future Trunks, there must be a present Trunks. And I think Goten was just kind of shoved into the story to have someone for Trunks to bounce dialog off of. There was clearly no real plan or interest in making them compelling characters.

5. FUSION SUCKS
The biggest cop-out in the series and creates a lot more questions than necessary. Never liked fusion--they weren't real characters.

6. I THINK THAT THE ENGLISH-SPEAKING FINAL BOUT VOICE ACTORS WOULD BE GREAT (FOR THE MOST PART)
I'm a very nostalgic guy. But, I realize this and can pass judgment on something that's bad. It's just that I do kind of constantly think of things that bring me back to my childhood... like the terrible Final Bout video game that I had so much fun with because I didn't know any better.

Yes, this is something I still think about. And I like going back and listening to the terrible performances of the English-translated version. But was it that bad? I often thought that the voice acting was terrible, but now, I think that this actors could definitely do a great job with a proper dub. I find myself wondering how they'd sound like when they had some real dialog with good directing behind it, not just one-off lines for a video game.

I thought Steve Blum is amazing, but he's no Goku... but why not? I found myself thinking that there's nothing that someone like Sean Schemmel brings to the performance that Blum couldn't do. Yeah, he sounds awkward as Goku in Final Bout, but I know his chops, I know his range. He's be great! And honestly, the rest of the cast was pretty great! I really liked Trunks's and Gohan's voices. The others are generally good based on their other works. Kind of felt like Daniel Woren would make a better Vegeta than Piccolo, Tom Wyner's Cell was bad (though he could be good in other roles), and I wasn't feeling Milton James's Vegeta, but again, how would they fare if they were given a real shot?

This is the nutty crap I think about: how 1997 one-off-cast voice actors for a terrible video game would do with a real shot at dubbing the series.
You have it backwards, other than some notable hiccups GT's Blue Water is more accurate and true to the original japanese. But I still agree with this post and the opinions spoused within are awesome.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:25 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:24 pm I've got some really unpopular opinions lol

I'm not sure if I shared before (I definitely did somewhere, just not sure if it was in this thread), but here are some of mine:

1. BRING ON THE INACCURATE ADAPTATIONS
I don't mind at all. Make them weird! Make bad choices! Name changes? Sure! Replacement score? Yes, please! I'm not saying that I'd like just anything, but the more, the merrier. It's just another reason to get excited to watch the same thing for the 300th time. One of the most joyful things that happened to me regarding this series, is finally getting to watch the Blue Water and Westwood dub of the series. It just reinvigorated my curiosity and desire to watch the series again. Just don't screw with the original Japanese version and I'm good. Other than that, it's like having different versions of the same material.

I know that this could create confusion and more causal fans might not get the "true" story, but I think it's like any of us--those who are interested enough will find out.

2. I LIKE GOKU AS A CLICHÉ SUPERHERO
When I was a kid, I was really turned off by the squeaky clean image that Funimation presented Goku as. I gravitated toward Vegeta the same way that I gravitated toward Batman over Superman. But, somewhere along the way, I grew out of that and started to really enjoy the idea of just a hero who chooses what's right over anything else.

I'm not saying that Goku should be all "ally to good, nightmare to [evil]!" but I don't think he should be all "ba-ha-ha-ha-ha; I guess I accidentally saved the universe because I really wanted to fight that guy; ba-ha-ha-ha-ha!" either. Somewhere in the middle is nice. Gohan is nice.

3. I DON'T GET THE FATHER-SON RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GOHAN AND PICCOLO
Whenever I see someone posting this, it just seems like such a cookie-cutter, shallow analysis. Why? Why is Piccolo a "better father" to Gohan than Goku? In fact, how is Piccolo's relationship to Gohan "fatherly" at all?

Goku was with Gohan for the first five years of his life. Then, stuff happened, Goku died, and Piccolo kidnapped Gohan to train him because Piccolo saw that Gohan could be of use against the Saiyans. Yes, they got close. Yes, Piccolo felt something for Gohan... in the (almost) year that he knew him. Yes, Piccolo sacrificed himself for Gohan. Yes, Gohan wanted to bring Piccolo back. And... that's pretty much it, right?

So this "father-son" relationship lasted a year? Because since Piccolo was wished back on Namek, we don't really get anything else between Gohan and Piccolo. Yeah, Piccolo trained with Goku and Gohan for the androids. Yeah, Gohan wanted to wear Piccolo's gi. Sure. But how is that a "father-son" relationship? That's more of a friend or master. Then, Piccolo lives with Dende and Popo.

We never really get anything else heartwarming between Piccolo and Gohan until Resurrection F/Super, with Piccolo babysitting Pan (after years of fans hyping up this "relationship" between Gohan and Piccolo).

On the other hand, Goku has a ton of heartwarming moments with Gohan. Their training for Cell, Goku's belief in Gohan to beat Cell, Goku's sacrifice and goodbye to Gohan. Goku's return from Other World. Goku interacting with Gohan on Old Kaioshin's planet.

Piccolo's only interactions with Gohan after Namek are kind of "Oh, hey!" and telling at Goku when Goku believed that Gohan could beat Cell.

4. GOTEN AND TRUNKS ARE POINTLESS AND KINDA SUCK
Future Trunks was awesome! Very, very cool character. And clearly, to have a future Trunks, there must be a present Trunks. And I think Goten was just kind of shoved into the story to have someone for Trunks to bounce dialog off of. There was clearly no real plan or interest in making them compelling characters.

5. FUSION SUCKS
The biggest cop-out in the series and creates a lot more questions than necessary. Never liked fusion--they weren't real characters.

6. I THINK THAT THE ENGLISH-SPEAKING FINAL BOUT VOICE ACTORS WOULD BE GREAT (FOR THE MOST PART)
I'm a very nostalgic guy. But, I realize this and can pass judgment on something that's bad. It's just that I do kind of constantly think of things that bring me back to my childhood... like the terrible Final Bout video game that I had so much fun with because I didn't know any better.

Yes, this is something I still think about. And I like going back and listening to the terrible performances of the English-translated version. But was it that bad? I often thought that the voice acting was terrible, but now, I think that this actors could definitely do a great job with a proper dub. I find myself wondering how they'd sound like when they had some real dialog with good directing behind it, not just one-off lines for a video game.

I thought Steve Blum is amazing, but he's no Goku... but why not? I found myself thinking that there's nothing that someone like Sean Schemmel brings to the performance that Blum couldn't do. Yeah, he sounds awkward as Goku in Final Bout, but I know his chops, I know his range. He's be great! And honestly, the rest of the cast was pretty great! I really liked Trunks's and Gohan's voices. The others are generally good based on their other works. Kind of felt like Daniel Woren would make a better Vegeta than Piccolo, Tom Wyner's Cell was bad (though he could be good in other roles), and I wasn't feeling Milton James's Vegeta, but again, how would they fare if they were given a real shot?

This is the nutty crap I think about: how 1997 one-off-cast voice actors for a terrible video game would do with a real shot at dubbing the series.
You have it backwards, other than some notable hiccups GT's Blue Water is more accurate and true to the original japanese. But I still agree with this post and the opinions spoused within are awesome.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:25 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:24 pm I've got some really unpopular opinions lol

I'm not sure if I shared before (I definitely did somewhere, just not sure if it was in this thread), but here are some of mine:

1. BRING ON THE INACCURATE ADAPTATIONS
I don't mind at all. Make them weird! Make bad choices! Name changes? Sure! Replacement score? Yes, please! I'm not saying that I'd like just anything, but the more, the merrier. It's just another reason to get excited to watch the same thing for the 300th time. One of the most joyful things that happened to me regarding this series, is finally getting to watch the Blue Water and Westwood dub of the series. It just reinvigorated my curiosity and desire to watch the series again. Just don't screw with the original Japanese version and I'm good. Other than that, it's like having different versions of the same material.

I know that this could create confusion and more causal fans might not get the "true" story, but I think it's like any of us--those who are interested enough will find out.

2. I LIKE GOKU AS A CLICHÉ SUPERHERO
When I was a kid, I was really turned off by the squeaky clean image that Funimation presented Goku as. I gravitated toward Vegeta the same way that I gravitated toward Batman over Superman. But, somewhere along the way, I grew out of that and started to really enjoy the idea of just a hero who chooses what's right over anything else.

I'm not saying that Goku should be all "ally to good, nightmare to [evil]!" but I don't think he should be all "ba-ha-ha-ha-ha; I guess I accidentally saved the universe because I really wanted to fight that guy; ba-ha-ha-ha-ha!" either. Somewhere in the middle is nice. Gohan is nice.

3. I DON'T GET THE FATHER-SON RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GOHAN AND PICCOLO
Whenever I see someone posting this, it just seems like such a cookie-cutter, shallow analysis. Why? Why is Piccolo a "better father" to Gohan than Goku? In fact, how is Piccolo's relationship to Gohan "fatherly" at all?

Goku was with Gohan for the first five years of his life. Then, stuff happened, Goku died, and Piccolo kidnapped Gohan to train him because Piccolo saw that Gohan could be of use against the Saiyans. Yes, they got close. Yes, Piccolo felt something for Gohan... in the (almost) year that he knew him. Yes, Piccolo sacrificed himself for Gohan. Yes, Gohan wanted to bring Piccolo back. And... that's pretty much it, right?

So this "father-son" relationship lasted a year? Because since Piccolo was wished back on Namek, we don't really get anything else between Gohan and Piccolo. Yeah, Piccolo trained with Goku and Gohan for the androids. Yeah, Gohan wanted to wear Piccolo's gi. Sure. But how is that a "father-son" relationship? That's more of a friend or master. Then, Piccolo lives with Dende and Popo.

We never really get anything else heartwarming between Piccolo and Gohan until Resurrection F/Super, with Piccolo babysitting Pan (after years of fans hyping up this "relationship" between Gohan and Piccolo).

On the other hand, Goku has a ton of heartwarming moments with Gohan. Their training for Cell, Goku's belief in Gohan to beat Cell, Goku's sacrifice and goodbye to Gohan. Goku's return from Other World. Goku interacting with Gohan on Old Kaioshin's planet.

Piccolo's only interactions with Gohan after Namek are kind of "Oh, hey!" and telling at Goku when Goku believed that Gohan could beat Cell.

4. GOTEN AND TRUNKS ARE POINTLESS AND KINDA SUCK
Future Trunks was awesome! Very, very cool character. And clearly, to have a future Trunks, there must be a present Trunks. And I think Goten was just kind of shoved into the story to have someone for Trunks to bounce dialog off of. There was clearly no real plan or interest in making them compelling characters.

5. FUSION SUCKS
The biggest cop-out in the series and creates a lot more questions than necessary. Never liked fusion--they weren't real characters.

6. I THINK THAT THE ENGLISH-SPEAKING FINAL BOUT VOICE ACTORS WOULD BE GREAT (FOR THE MOST PART)
I'm a very nostalgic guy. But, I realize this and can pass judgment on something that's bad. It's just that I do kind of constantly think of things that bring me back to my childhood... like the terrible Final Bout video game that I had so much fun with because I didn't know any better.

Yes, this is something I still think about. And I like going back and listening to the terrible performances of the English-translated version. But was it that bad? I often thought that the voice acting was terrible, but now, I think that this actors could definitely do a great job with a proper dub. I find myself wondering how they'd sound like when they had some real dialog with good directing behind it, not just one-off lines for a video game.

I thought Steve Blum is amazing, but he's no Goku... but why not? I found myself thinking that there's nothing that someone like Sean Schemmel brings to the performance that Blum couldn't do. Yeah, he sounds awkward as Goku in Final Bout, but I know his chops, I know his range. He's be great! And honestly, the rest of the cast was pretty great! I really liked Trunks's and Gohan's voices. The others are generally good based on their other works. Kind of felt like Daniel Woren would make a better Vegeta than Piccolo, Tom Wyner's Cell was bad (though he could be good in other roles), and I wasn't feeling Milton James's Vegeta, but again, how would they fare if they were given a real shot?

This is the nutty crap I think about: how 1997 one-off-cast voice actors for a terrible video game would do with a real shot at dubbing the series.
You have it backwards, other than some notable hiccups GT's Blue Water is more accurate and true to the original japanese. But I still agree with this post and the opinions spoused within are awesome.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Grimlock » Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:23 am

MrGohanks wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:41 pmThe Movies and the Manga themselves never imply that Vegeta used the ritual to unlock SSG.
The end of Movie 14 has Vegeta demanding Goku to perform the ritual on him so he will get Super Saiyan God. That line hasn't been contradicted yet. So we are led to assume the ritual happened off-screen.
Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 9:25 pmYou have it backwards, other than some notable hiccups GT's Blue Water is more accurate and true to the original japanese. But I still agree with this post and the opinions spoused within are awesome.
May you please be more careful when posting? You have submitted the same four posts in a row replying to a huge wall of text (which you should have either put it in spoiler tag or simply remove the text altogether). It's spam and it's bad to keep track while scrolling up or down.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:58 am

OOPS QUADRA POST. lol
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by dva_raza » Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:18 am

Wrigglything wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:43 am Perhaps Toei realised that they could make some bank off it through good PR, hence the public approvals
Lol I don't know.. kinda hard to believe they approved that when they released a statement saying that they DIDN'T.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by dva_raza » Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:38 am

MrGohanks wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:33 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:52 pm Bro, do you even watch or read Super lol?

- There's not a single scene of him of Super complaining about Goku doing anything while he doesn't, you failed to point out a single example while spewing your biases.
I failed in my assumption that you didn’t need each instance to be spelled out..
But from top of my head,
- Vegeta leaving his family trip the instant he thinks about Goku, then complaining about Goku being #1 in the next scene..?

When has that ever happened? What episode or chapter? It sounds like you are just making shit up just to be a butthurt hater as usual

..yeah again.. I’m still not totally sure you’re actually being for real or if you’re just trolling me here.
Episode 2. Like, Vegeta’s debut in Super anime?

MrGohanks wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:52 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm
- Vegeta whining about his boring training when Goku is absent on his Hit project
Vegeta never mentioned Goku once during his training with Whis
He did.
When he was whining about his boring training while Goku was absent on his Hit project.

MrGohanks wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:52 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm
- Vegeta complaining to Goku about UI (don’t know why you’d say he didn’t care, it’s as if you watched a different show) followed by a sad and desperate attempt unlock it himself lol
He never complained about Goku having UI at all, he attempted to get it himself because Goku failed in his first fight against Jiren and the universe was at stake. You are clearly reaching badly with that claim lmao
Looool you're the one reaching. There was no mention or show of any of that and just "what is that you just did and why".
He was simply bothered by being behind again.
Your claim that Vegeta doesn’t concern himself with Goku is super absurd.

MrGohanks wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:52 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:52 pm - "Every motivation he feels comes from jealousy", bullshit lmao. Super and even GT made it clear that his new primary motivation is keeping the Earth and his family, Goku is just a side thing
I don’t know if you’re trolling me right now or you have some sort mental filter that doesn’t let you receive anything you don’t like.

Like do you not remember WHAT made Vegeta beg Whis to train him in the first place..?
A chance reach God levels of power? He never even mentioned Goku when he was trying to convince Whis to train him,
Lol. Kay so that’s a no on the remembering thing or a yes on the mental filter thing.

Vegeta’s reason to ask Whis to train him was Goku.
Do a rewatch instead of arguing about basic moments you clearly don’t remember or never got in the first place for whatever reason.


MrGohanks wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:33 pm This is an Appeal to Ignorance fallacy. Shenron never said that there was no other to unlock SSG and nobody even tried to ask about other ways. You just baseless l assumed there was no other way
Lmao how the fuck it’s “baseless”? Shenron said - -this is the way to create a Saiyan God.
He didn’t say this is ‘one way’ or the ‘easiest way’, so more like there was no reason to not think that was the only way.
One being added seems like exactly the definition of a retcon. Either way I don’t care how you want to call it, the point is things are changed and moved around in favor of Vegeta.


MrGohanks wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:33 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm
‘Projecting hate’ lol yeah forgive me if I’m a little annoyed by Goku being LITERALLY RETCONNED to justify Vegeta getting his long awaited “1st win” for the 3rd time.
What "retcon" are you talking about? Do you enjoy spewing butthurt nonsense without proof?
Dude it's in the very quote you are replying to:::

dva_raza wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:10 pm His "win" in the latest film is another one.
They resorted to Goku being all of a sudden against meditation (???) to be able to justify that little fan-service.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MrGohanks » Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:46 pm

dva_raza wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:38 am
MrGohanks wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:33 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm
I failed in my assumption that you didn’t need each instance to be spelled out..
But from top of my head,
- Vegeta leaving his family trip the instant he thinks about Goku, then complaining about Goku being #1 in the next scene..?

When has that ever happened? What episode or chapter? It sounds like you are just making shit up just to be a butthurt hater as usual

..yeah again.. I’m still not totally sure you’re actually being for real or if you’re just trolling me here.
Episode 2. Like, Vegeta’s debut in Super anime?

Again, you failed to show an actual quote here. He never even mentions Goku that episode. You are reaching badly lol.

MrGohanks wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:52 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm
- Vegeta whining about his boring training when Goku is absent on his Hit project
Vegeta never mentioned Goku once during his training with Whis
He did.
When he was whining about his boring training while Goku was absent on his Hit project.

Again, not a single quote to be found. Its like you are reaching for reasons to whine about Vegeta. Vegeta had no idea about Goku's fight with Hit until the end of the episode and didn't assume Goku was doing any training since he wasn't with Whis
MrGohanks wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:52 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm
- Vegeta complaining to Goku about UI (don’t know why you’d say he didn’t care, it’s as if you watched a different show) followed by a sad and desperate attempt unlock it himself lol
He never complained about Goku having UI at all, he attempted to get it himself because Goku failed in his first fight against Jiren and the universe was at stake. You are clearly reaching badly with that claim lmao
Looool you're the one reaching. There was no mention or show of any of that and just "what is that you just did and why".
He was simply bothered by being behind again.
Your claim that Vegeta doesn’t concern himself with Goku is super absurd.

Vegeta is literally shown thinking about getting UI in order to take down Jiren in that episode and never even says a thing about Goku being ahead of him, literally watch the episode bro lol. Its like you in denial about the series and are irrationally butthurt over a fictional character.
MrGohanks wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:52 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm

I don’t know if you’re trolling me right now or you have some sort mental filter that doesn’t let you receive anything you don’t like.

Like do you not remember WHAT made Vegeta beg Whis to train him in the first place..?
A chance reach God levels of power? He never even mentioned Goku when he was trying to convince Whis to train him,
Lol. Kay so that’s a no on the remembering thing or a yes on the mental filter thing.

Vegeta’s reason to ask Whis to train him was Goku.
Do a rewatch instead of arguing about basic moments you clearly don’t remember or never got in the first place for whatever reason.

Goku is never mentioned nor even thought off in that very episode where Vegeta gets Whis to train him. In fact, when Goku finds out about what Vegeta has been doing for the past 6 months and how Vegeta surpassed, Vegeta doesn’t try to rub it in his face.

YOU are the one with the mental filter


MrGohanks wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:33 pm This is an Appeal to Ignorance fallacy. Shenron never said that there was no other to unlock SSG and nobody even tried to ask about other ways. You just baseless l assumed there was no other way
Lmao how the fuck it’s “baseless”? Shenron said - -this is the way to create a Saiyan God.
He didn’t say this is ‘one way’ or the ‘easiest way’, so more like there was no reason to not think that was the only way.
One being added seems like exactly the definition of a retcon. Either way I don’t care how you want to call it, the point is things are changed and moved around in favor of Vegeta.

You are just being extra butthurt over a character you hate getting a powerup. And you committed the Appeal to Ignorance fallacy again, because Shenron never said nor even imply that the Ritual was the Only way to unlock SSG. And based on the show's own logic any Saiyan with God ki can unlock it with training, there's nothing particularly special about Vegeta getting it that way
MrGohanks wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:33 pm
dva_raza wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:40 pm
‘Projecting hate’ lol yeah forgive me if I’m a little annoyed by Goku being LITERALLY RETCONNED to justify Vegeta getting his long awaited “1st win” for the 3rd time.
What "retcon" are you talking about? Do you enjoy spewing butthurt nonsense without proof?
Dude it's in the very quote you are replying to:::

dva_raza wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:10 pm His "win" in the latest film is another one.
They resorted to Goku being all of a sudden against meditation (???) to be able to justify that little fan-service.
Goku didn't even assume that Vegeta was meditating in the first place because it isn't something Vegeta is known to do. And how the hell was Goku being "against" meditation in the first place?

And no, Vegeta beating Goku in the movie wasn't a 3rd win because their first fight with interrupted by Gohan & Krillin and their 2nd fight was postponed because of Buu. This is the first time they've actually had a fair fight with an actual conclusion

Admit it, you just have a butthurt hatred over the character, which was obvious since that other thread where you went out of you way to argued that Goku shouldn't be held accountable for releasing Buu


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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:15 pm

Without wading into the actual discourse, I'd like to add that I don't think taking things line by line and quote replying is clarifying things for anyone. Might I suggest taking the most substantive or interesting point and keeping the reply to a paragraph or two? Just a suggestion, take it for what it's worth.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:50 am

I miss Manga UK holding the license to Dragon Ball in the UK and Ireland and not being consumed by larger companies like Funimation and Crunchyroll.

Whatever people say about Manga UK not authoring their own releases and they had their flaws with not fixing errors on Dragon Ball Season 3, but I do appreciate that over time they improved, with things like fixing the mistranslation on Funimation's Super Broly Blu-Ray where Paragus says "my Broly will be killed", as well as creating beautiful slipcases with holographic covers and art cards for the movies. With their recent Z releases Manga UK has also made 4:3 the standard on Blu-Ray whereas in the US 4:3 releases are becoming harder to find again with the steelbooks going out of print and the Walmart collections being the 16:9 discs.

I was excited for the prospect of future improvements with their handling of the series, but now it will probably just be no different from what's happening with the US releases, and if there are green tints or other issues UK and Irish fans will be screwed unless they import elsewhere.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Zephyr » Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:46 pm

ABED wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:15 pmI don't think taking things line by line and quote replying is clarifying things for anyone.
Yeah, it makes reading and replying to posts incredibly tedious and exhausting.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:32 pm

The first 15 or so episodes of DBGT are good. I know a lot of people dislike it until it gets to Baby, but I enjoy those episodes quite a bit. Yes, even the Luud stuff.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:33 pm

I guess it's unpopular because Blueberry and Kikono are cool, funny characters, but them being there instead of the scarier Zarbon and Dodoria, when Freeza decides to destroy planet Vegeta (and also being them who did the intel about SS and SSG*) makes Freeza and the whole scene look less menacing in my eyes.
Two comic-relief-ish characters instead of two fucking psychopathic generals doesn't hit as hard with me, but I guess it's the current mode Toriyama is in now, and he wanted to retroactively include them, but not everything needs to be connected.

Of course, I can buy them now that his empire crumbled and he takes whatever he can, but back then I'd take Freeza surrounded by strong as fuck evil soldiers over funny little secretaries.

*also, no need to even mention SSG.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Geraldo » Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:29 am

ABED wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:32 pm The first 15 or so episodes of DBGT are good. I know a lot of people dislike it until it gets to Baby, but I enjoy those episodes quite a bit. Yes, even the Luud stuff.
Same. Too bad that Prison Planet episode was never made.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ashur » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:39 pm

ABED wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:32 pm The first 15 or so episodes of DBGT are good. I know a lot of people dislike it until it gets to Baby, but I enjoy those episodes quite a bit. Yes, even the Luud stuff.
I agree, i think GT is quite solid and enjoyable overall up until the Baby Arc ends, it's only with the Super 17 stuff and the early Shadow Dragons arc that it goes off the rails, and that is when it tried to be more fight-oriented, the first few episodes are really fun.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:44 pm

Ashur wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:39 pm
ABED wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:32 pm The first 15 or so episodes of DBGT are good. I know a lot of people dislike it until it gets to Baby, but I enjoy those episodes quite a bit. Yes, even the Luud stuff.
I agree, i think GT is quite solid and enjoyable overall up until the Baby Arc ends, it's only with the Super 17 stuff and the early Shadow Dragons arc that it goes off the rails, and that is when it tried to be more fight-oriented, the first few episodes are really fun.
Interesting. I agree about the Super 17 stuff. No matter how many times I've watched it, I've never come around on it. It's simply boring. I do like the Evil Dragons arc quite a bit. It's nice to see some love for GT, especially those early episodes.
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