Unpopular DB opinions

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by McDonaldsGuy » Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:02 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:33 pm So your issue with Nozawa as adult Goku isn't solely that she has been the character's voice for so long in of itself, but the particular sound of the performance? I mean, if the anime producers or voice casting people or even Toriyama himself back in 1988/1989 had though the same way then they'd have possibly recast the role with a male seiyuu or something once they reached the point in the original series where Goku is now grown up. But they didn't do that, because they (producers, Toriyama?) i guess insisted on keeping her around even then.

Different strokes i suppose, i personally don't find her voice for the character to be "unlistenable" or whatever but your mileage may vary on whether one thinks it's good or not.
Honestly they didn't even need to recast Nozawa. Just have her sound more like a male. Her Goku Black voice is great - make it less sinister and that's a great regular Goku voice.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:18 pm

McDonaldsGuy wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:02 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:33 pm So your issue with Nozawa as adult Goku isn't solely that she has been the character's voice for so long in of itself, but the particular sound of the performance? I mean, if the anime producers or voice casting people or even Toriyama himself back in 1988/1989 had though the same way then they'd have possibly recast the role with a male seiyuu or something once they reached the point in the original series where Goku is now grown up. But they didn't do that, because they (producers, Toriyama?) i guess insisted on keeping her around even then.

Different strokes i suppose, i personally don't find her voice for the character to be "unlistenable" or whatever but your mileage may vary on whether one thinks it's good or not.
Honestly they didn't even need to recast Nozawa. Just have her sound more like a male. Her Goku Black voice is great - make it less sinister and that's a great regular Goku voice.
Basically something like a less evil sounding version of Black or even Tullece from DBZ movie 3 because she really made those two roles vocally different and distinct from Goku.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Taingo » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:22 pm

I don't know if this is unpopular or not, (it might be around here, though) but I find DBZ's dub of the Buu saga to be damn near perfect, and personally, a tad bit superior to the Kai dub. It could be nostalgia, but I don't think it is since I prefer the Kai dub of all the other prior sagas to the original Z dub, even though I'll admit I really do enjoy the Z dub when I'm feeling nostalgic. With the Buu saga, though, everyone really began to find their voices and tone during that time period, and yeah, they took liberties with the dialogue in typical 90s-early 00s funimation fashion, but it made for very compelling dialogue. The parts that stick out to me were mostly from Majin Vegeta, particularly his speech of "being ruled by another," a glimpse of the psychological toll that being Frieza's slave had on him, something that isn't explored nearly enough. I also enjoyed Goku's birthright speech and basically calls Vegeta out for being stuck in the past, and how they're in the process of creating a new race that could be "just as proud." To me stuff like that puts that dub over Kai for me by a good margin.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:43 pm

Taingo wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:22 pm I don't know if this is unpopular or not, (it might be around here, though) but I find DBZ's dub of the Buu saga to be damn near perfect, and personally, a tad bit superior to the Kai dub. It could be nostalgia, but I don't think it is since I prefer the Kai dub of all the other prior sagas to the original Z dub, even though I'll admit I really do enjoy the Z dub when I'm feeling nostalgic. With the Buu saga, though, everyone really began to find their voices and tone during that time period, and yeah, they took liberties with the dialogue in typical 90s-early 00s funimation fashion, but it made for very compelling dialogue. The parts that stick out to me were mostly from Majin Vegeta, particularly his speech of "being ruled by another," a glimpse of the psychological toll that being Frieza's slave had on him, something that isn't explored nearly enough. I also enjoyed Goku's birthright speech and basically calls Vegeta out for being stuck in the past, and how they're in the process of creating a new race that could be "just as proud." To me stuff like that puts that dub over Kai for me by a good margin.
The "being ruled by another" is beside the point and not relevant to the moment. It wasn't until vegeta rebelled that Freeza does anything to him. Until that point vegeta was one of Freeza top soldiers. It also clouds the issue with Goku. It sounds great on paper but it's nonsense and out of character.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Scsigs » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:56 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:07 pm What exactly is it about Nozawa's voice for Goku you find so terrible? Because that doesn't seem to be a widely held majority consensus across most of the fandom especially around here. To answer your first question, now that i'm thinking about it i don't believe there are any other countries with dubs of the series that have an adult woman playing adult Goku.
I'd say that's not the majority consensus of fans of the Japanese dubs of DB material, which makes up a large percentage of the community here. However, you're liable to find a lot of people who equally don't like Nozawa as Goku. Like me. I don't care for her Goku voice at all. And this isn't me vastly preferring Sean Schemmel or anything, this is just me not liking her Goku voice. To me, the voice tone is off from what I'd expect him to have. It's too abrasive & annoying over a long period of time. It's at its worse when Nozawa has to play Goku as so obtusely stupid like he is the majority of the time in Super. Now, Schemmel can get really annoying as that part of Goku's personality as well, especially since he's not a comedic actor by trade, but that just comes with being out of his wheelhouse because I buy every other moment that Schemmel is Goku, especially after Schemmel learned to act after Z's dub finished.
Now, I can get used to & deal with Nozawa as Goku if the Japanese is all I can watch, but it's not my first choice. I also have problems with Mayumi Tanaka as Krillin. That voice does NOT match his face at all. I just can't get over those at all & I'm an apologist for the English voice of Naruto.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Nagyzöld » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:31 am

Scsigs wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:56 am this is just me not liking her Goku voice. To me, the voice tone is off from what I'd expect him to have. It's too abrasive & annoying over a long period of time.
I mean I don't blame you. https://youtu.be/exEhQdSuAF0

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Scsigs » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:40 am

Nagyzöld wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:31 am
Scsigs wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:56 am this is just me not liking her Goku voice. To me, the voice tone is off from what I'd expect him to have. It's too abrasive & annoying over a long period of time.
I mean I don't blame you. https://youtu.be/exEhQdSuAF0
Like, even I can see that that's just a repeat of her battle grunts, but that's a decent example still. Her Goku sounds a LOT like that just when speaking, to me. Mostly because she puts it on when Goku's played more stupid in the scripts. Like, I know the Japanese are respectful with their opinions, but I think she'd even agree that Goku's played as too stupid in Super way too often. She's been playing him since 1986 in various forms, so I think she'd be the best person to judge the writing, even compared to Toriyama.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:29 am

What does does Goku's stupidity have to do with the performance?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:04 am

Taingo wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:22 pm I don't know if this is unpopular or not, (it might be around here, though) but I find DBZ's dub of the Buu saga to be damn near perfect, and personally, a tad bit superior to the Kai dub. It could be nostalgia, but I don't think it is since I prefer the Kai dub of all the other prior sagas to the original Z dub, even though I'll admit I really do enjoy the Z dub when I'm feeling nostalgic. With the Buu saga, though, everyone really began to find their voices and tone during that time period, and yeah, they took liberties with the dialogue in typical 90s-early 00s funimation fashion, but it made for very compelling dialogue. The parts that stick out to me were mostly from Majin Vegeta, particularly his speech of "being ruled by another," a glimpse of the psychological toll that being Frieza's slave had on him, something that isn't explored nearly enough. I also enjoyed Goku's birthright speech and basically calls Vegeta out for being stuck in the past, and how they're in the process of creating a new race that could be "just as proud." To me stuff like that puts that dub over Kai for me by a good margin.
From what I've seen the general consensus among the fandom is that the Z Buu dub is rather good, maybe not perfect. I'd say it's a huge improvement over the earlier arcs dubbed by the Texas cast up to that point, and the voicework is mostly on point, although the liberties and mischaracterization does knock it down a bit.

I personally found Goku saying "nice shot man" when Vegeta stopped Kid Buu's first blast that could have destroyed the Earth to be a bit out of character as Goku's not a stereotypical man that would have lad-like (for lack of a better term) banter, especially in such dire circumstances.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 90sDBZ » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:06 am

Taingo wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:22 pm I don't know if this is unpopular or not, (it might be around here, though) but I find DBZ's dub of the Buu saga to be damn near perfect, and personally, a tad bit superior to the Kai dub. It could be nostalgia, but I don't think it is since I prefer the Kai dub of all the other prior sagas to the original Z dub, even though I'll admit I really do enjoy the Z dub when I'm feeling nostalgic. With the Buu saga, though, everyone really began to find their voices and tone during that time period, and yeah, they took liberties with the dialogue in typical 90s-early 00s funimation fashion, but it made for very compelling dialogue. The parts that stick out to me were mostly from Majin Vegeta, particularly his speech of "being ruled by another," a glimpse of the psychological toll that being Frieza's slave had on him, something that isn't explored nearly enough. I also enjoyed Goku's birthright speech and basically calls Vegeta out for being stuck in the past, and how they're in the process of creating a new race that could be "just as proud." To me stuff like that puts that dub over Kai for me by a good margin.
I agree that the Buu saga Z dub is great. I rewatched it recently and the cast really came into their own. Sabat was doing his own take on Vegeta at this point, his Piccolo was played as wiser and less gravely, and Sean got much better at lighthearted Goku. The newer cast members were all great right off the bat too. Teen Gohan, Kid Trunks, Goten, Videl, Dabura, Babidi, and Super Buu were all really well done.

I've always loved the Faulconer score, but it seemed to get even better in this saga, with themes like Super Buu's theme, Babidi casts a spell, and the SS3 powerup theme being a few standouts.

And I agree that line from Vegeta about Frieza works great. Him having Frieza above him his entire life only to have Goku step in and defeat him would definitely still frustrate him.

I haven't watched the Kai dub for about 3 years at this point, so it'll be interesting to go back to that and compare it again.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:39 pm

I wouldn’t go as far as saying Z’s Buu dub is better than Kai:TFC dub but the gap between them is a lot smaller than Z Namek and Android sagas compared to Kai’s.

The Ultimate Uncut redub (or Ocean/Funi/Saban dub ignoring the over the top censorship) and the Buu era of the dub aren’t terribly bad. It’s really only Ginyu Assault-Free the Future that are painfully bad.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Scsigs » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:01 am

I don't know how anyone can defend the Z Buu Saga dub. The scripts got marginally better & the acting was much improved, but that doesn't deliver a good final product at all. I vastly prefer the Kai dub to Z's.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:09 am

The Final Chapters dub was definitely superior, as with all of Kai vs Z. Although I know the Sumitomo score isn't for everyone so I respect that some may prefer the latter to the former.

Personally, while it's not great I can watch Funi Z Buu arc, it's the best of the original in-house dubs before the redubs. Their OG Dragon Ball dub always felt off, and I really don't like their GT dub at all.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:36 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:09 am

Personally, while it's not great I can watch Funi Z Buu arc, it's the best of the original in-house dubs before the redubs. Their OG Dragon Ball dub always felt off, and I really don't like their GT dub at all.
I think with the OG Dragon Ball dub a big problem is the weaker actors (namely Nadolny and Vollmer) were at the forefront where the Boo saga had better actors (Kara Edwards, Kyle Hebert, and Laura Bailey and even Schemmel’s then improved Goku to the forefront) also once Sean Micheal Teague took over as head writer around the Red Ribbon saga the og dub drops any pretense of being more accurate where iirc Jared Hedges (who wrote like every Super dub episode?) was one of the main writers for the Boo saga dub and he tended to be a bit more faithful

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Big Boss » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:25 pm

I didn't grow up in Japan with Dragon Ball when it aired, but this is my take on the Nozawa Adult Goku debate.

As I said above, I was not a child living in Japan during the airing of Dragon Ball nor am I an expert on Japanese culture, but Nozawa continuing to voice Goku into adulthood makes perfect sense to me. Children had become so accustomed to that voice for so long that certainly changing it so suddenly would be ridiculously jarring. Think about it this way: everyone knows Nancy Cartwright's Bart Simpson voice. Even during episodes which are flash forwards and are set in future when he's an adult, she continues to voice him. Yet nobody finds that weird. Why is that? Because that's just his voice. You could make the argument that because the Simpsons is a sitcom it makes more sense, but does it? The Simpsons is still more "adult" than Dragon Ball will ever be. Either way, the voice is so iconic you don't think of it sounding any different. Certainly the same logic should apply to Goku's voice as well? If we dig deep into Nozawa's performances as both Kid Goku and Adult Goku, there are enough differences and nuance between the two for them to be considered separate characters in their own right. Personally I think she does an astounding job at differentiating members of the Son family. All of the complaints I see are from an international perspective, separate from the original context of the original product, which absolutely needs to be taken into account if we are to accurately analyze why decisions were made the way they were.

People are entitled to their opinions of course, and if you don't like her delivery or tone that's completely fine because it's all subjective. The only issue I have is when people complain they don't like JP Goku simply because he is "voiced by a woman/granny" and don't give any other details or reasons why. Dragon Ball isn't some super serious franchise that demands real world logic be applied to it 100% of the time, and correct me of I'm wrong, but didn't Toriyama himself envision Goku as being the antithesis to the stereotypical gruff and buff male protagonists that were so common in Shonen at the time?

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:18 pm

Speaking from experience as someone who Nozawa grew on I think seeing Z first also affects people's perception of how Goku should sound because they are used to an already matured voice. It makes a lot more sense when you've spent some time with Nozawa's kid Goku and the voice just feels right.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:15 pm

Nozawa’s Goku was jarring to me when I first heard it, but it’s basically impossible to imagine anyone else voicing the character in Japanese. It helps that her voice is unique and somewhat androgynous sounding. Still, I can’t think of any female English speaking voice actors off the top of my head who would be able to pull off voicing a grown man who looks like Goku. I know Maile Flanagan voices adult Naruto, but that sounds weird too.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by In Brightest Day » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:05 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:24 pmYamcha before 17?
Sure, I don’t think 17 is particularly interesting in his own right, nor do I think Goku (or anyone in the main cast) would even think to include him if this were the original series. Guy hasn’t had anything to do with his only known relatives for several years and can’t be traced, so his inclusion was a bit of an ass-pull in my opinion.

In my head, it was less Yamcha over 17, and more that Boo would replace 17, while Yamcha would have been chosen over Roshi.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:13 pm

In Brightest Day wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:05 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:24 pmYamcha before 17?
Sure, I don’t think 17 is particularly interesting in his own right, nor do I think Goku (or anyone in the main cast) would even think to include him if this were the original series. Guy hasn’t had anything to do with his only known relatives for several years and can’t be traced, so his inclusion was a bit of an ass-pull in my opinion.

In my head, it was less Yamcha over 17, and more that Boo would replace 17, while Yamcha would have been chosen over Roshi.
When was the last time Yamcha did anything meaningful in the story?

That's not what an asspull is and that term is nonsense anyway. There are plenty of other terms one could use like "contrivance" or "deus ex machina". 17's role in the story is no less organic than your idea for Yamcha. It's the end of the world. Why wouldn't 18 suggest her brother? And since 18 and 17 had anything to do for years that's all the more reason to bring him back. That's a very natural and relatable story to tell.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:13 pm

When I first heard Nozawa as adult Goku, I just accepted it from the moment I heard her speak. And regarding a female voice actress voicing Goku in English, it wouldn't sound right where as in Japanese, it just works, probably because English and Japanese are very different languages.
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