Unpopular DB opinions

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Izanagi
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Izanagi » Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:44 pm

Vegeta is a good character but fans love him for the wrong reasons, and as time passed, the meaning behind Vegeta's whole "Saiyan Pride" shtick got lost and misconstrued by the fanbase and its creators (Toyo/Toei).

Vegeta has admitted on two separate occasions in the original manga that the whole 'Saiyan Pride' nonsense is just a coping mechanism for his inability to accept his inferiority to Goku, both as a warrior and as a man.

Hell, this whole pride and honor spiel Vegeta rambles about immediately went out the window when he willingly allowed his baby mama and newborn child to be used as target practice/distraction. The fact that Vegeta was such a loser that he willingly accepted Babidi's mind control to close the power gap between him and Goku, speaks volumes for his lack of honor and pride.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:40 pm

The whole dragon ball character ethnicity debate is silly. You can make arguments for or against the ethnicities of most of the characters and thus there is no future in debating it.

That and I'm not sure about Caulifla and Kale being a lesbian couple.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:07 pm

Hulk10 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:40 pm The whole dragon ball character ethnicity debate is silly. You can make arguments for or against the ethnicities of most of the characters and thus there is no future in debating it.

That and I'm not sure about Caulifla and Kale being a lesbian couple.
It seems safe to assume that characters like Goku and Kuririn would probably be Asian, while someone like Bulma would likely be white.

As for Caulifla and Kale, all their subtext is pretty much exclusive to the anime, and Toei seemed to deliberately try and keep it vague. I don’t have much of an opinion on it, but it’s the closest Dragon Ball currently has to positive queer representation, so I guess it’s not surprising that some people like to latch on to it.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:32 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:07 pm
Hulk10 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:40 pm The whole dragon ball character ethnicity debate is silly. You can make arguments for or against the ethnicities of most of the characters and thus there is no future in debating it.

That and I'm not sure about Caulifla and Kale being a lesbian couple.
It seems safe to assume that characters like Goku and Kuririn would probably be Asian, while someone like Bulma would likely be white.

As for Caulifla and Kale, all their subtext is pretty much exclusive to the anime, and Toei seemed to deliberately try and keep it vague. I don’t have much of an opinion on it, but it’s the closest Dragon Ball currently has to positive queer representation, so I guess it’s not surprising that some people like to latch on to it.
Perhaps. But I feel that not all Saiyans would be Asian, some would, some wouldn't. I personally choose not to trouble my head over it.


And the Kale and Caulifla is something I have no issue with. If they are a couple its cute. If not its okay.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by BeaBumby » Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:21 am

Izanagi wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:44 pm Vegeta is a good character but fans love him for the wrong reasons, and as time passed, the meaning behind Vegeta's whole "Saiyan Pride" shtick got lost and misconstrued by the fanbase and its creators (Toyo/Toei).

Vegeta has admitted on two separate occasions in the original manga that the whole 'Saiyan Pride' nonsense is just a coping mechanism for his inability to accept his inferiority to Goku, both as a warrior and as a man.

Hell, this whole pride and honor spiel Vegeta rambles about immediately went out the window when he willingly allowed his baby mama and newborn child to be used as target practice/distraction. The fact that Vegeta was such a loser that he willingly accepted Babidi's mind control to close the power gap between him and Goku, speaks volumes for his lack of honor and pride.
Honestly his pride being a facade just makes him a way more interesting character to me. Besides, being so prideful ain't the best sometimes
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:06 am

BeaBumby wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:21 am
Izanagi wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:44 pm Vegeta is a good character but fans love him for the wrong reasons, and as time passed, the meaning behind Vegeta's whole "Saiyan Pride" shtick got lost and misconstrued by the fanbase and its creators (Toyo/Toei).

Vegeta has admitted on two separate occasions in the original manga that the whole 'Saiyan Pride' nonsense is just a coping mechanism for his inability to accept his inferiority to Goku, both as a warrior and as a man.

Hell, this whole pride and honor spiel Vegeta rambles about immediately went out the window when he willingly allowed his baby mama and newborn child to be used as target practice/distraction. The fact that Vegeta was such a loser that he willingly accepted Babidi's mind control to close the power gap between him and Goku, speaks volumes for his lack of honor and pride.
Honestly his pride being a facade just makes him a way more interesting character to me. Besides, being so prideful ain't the best sometimes
When did he do that?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ashur » Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:20 am

I think the Cell Arc is, by far, the worst from the original series.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Noah » Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:27 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:18 am All of Kageyama's songs from the video games (Final Bout onwards) are leagues better than both of Dragon Ball Z's opening theme songs.
That's a bit unpopular, but not much.... I could say The Biggest Battle is way better than Chala Head Chala, though not iconic as the latter.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MrGohanks » Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:12 pm

Both DBS Broly and DBS Super Hero have better storytelling than most of franchise Post-Namek saga.

Nearly all of the complaints about DBS Vegeta (especially about his alleged "regression") from much of the Fandom are dumb and baseless.

There shouldn't be anymore Tournament arcs from now on, as all of them after the Cell Games were just glorified filler.

Almost the entire DBS manga before the Moro saga is terrible.

GT is actually overall worse than a lot of fans remember. There's a good reason why it's reputation was so bad (especially among non-DB fans) in the first place.

The Final showdown in the Saiyan saga is the best fight in the whole franchise.

Goku vs Cell is a better fight than Gohan vs Cell.

The U6 Saiyans aren't as bad as a lot fans say they are, they're actually more interesting as characters than most of the classic cast.

The "Piccolo is Gohan's real dad" jokes are so played out and no longer funny, and Gohan himself never actually calls Piccolo a father figure.

Revival of F is the worst DB movie and the one of the bottom 4 worst sagas of the entire series.

I'm not sure how unpopular any of these views are but these are my views.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MrGohanks » Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:34 pm

Izanagi wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:44 pm Vegeta is a good character but fans love him for the wrong reasons, and as time passed, the meaning behind Vegeta's whole "Saiyan Pride" shtick got lost and misconstrued by the fanbase and its creators (Toyo/Toei).

Vegeta has admitted on two separate occasions in the original manga that the whole 'Saiyan Pride' nonsense is just a coping mechanism for his inability to accept his inferiority to Goku, both as a warrior and as a man.

Hell, this whole pride and honor spiel Vegeta rambles about immediately went out the window when he willingly allowed his baby mama and newborn child to be used as target practice/distraction. The fact that Vegeta was such a loser that he willingly accepted Babidi's mind control to close the power gap between him and Goku, speaks volumes for his lack of honor and pride.
There is not a single line in the original manga of Vegeta ever saying this. And the whole "Saiyan pride" thing was present with the character since his debut in the Saiyan saga (and his grudge and inferiority complex over Goku only began after the Namek saga with Freeza's defeat, as Vegeta still hadn't yet viewed Goku in that light before that point). Your post sounds like just another fan misconception based on personal headcanon.

"Hell, this whole pride and honor spiel Vegeta rambles about immediately went out the window when he willingly allowed his baby mama and newborn child to be used as target practice/distraction"

And what the hell does any of this have to do with lacking "Saiyan pride"? Nothing at all, since Saiyans themselves aren't a family valuing people to begin with and its actually common for them in U7 to kill relatives like its nothing. It's like you're projecting your own morality into the series while ignoring the actual morality in the story.

"The fact that Vegeta was such a loser that he willingly accepted Babidi's mind control to close the power gap between him and Goku, speaks volumes for his lack of honor and pride."

Did you even watch the Buu saga lol? It was because of Vegeta's pride that he was able to maintain complete freewill and Babidi was unable to have any control over him unlike Dabura. And cheating your way into power because you refuse to accept another person being stronger than you is exactly what someone who's filled with pride/hubris would do.

Toriyama oversees and sometimes edits the manga that Toyotaro writes (and gives an outline for Toei with the anime), so if Toriyama approves of how Toyo and Toei portrayed the character (or at least never complained about it) then in reality they haven't "misconstrued" the character at all, its likely you have.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MrGohanks » Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:41 pm

Hulk10 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:32 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:07 pm
Hulk10 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:40 pm The whole dragon ball character ethnicity debate is silly. You can make arguments for or against the ethnicities of most of the characters and thus there is no future in debating it.

That and I'm not sure about Caulifla and Kale being a lesbian couple.
It seems safe to assume that characters like Goku and Kuririn would probably be Asian, while someone like Bulma would likely be white.

As for Caulifla and Kale, all their subtext is pretty much exclusive to the anime, and Toei seemed to deliberately try and keep it vague. I don’t have much of an opinion on it, but it’s the closest Dragon Ball currently has to positive queer representation, so I guess it’s not surprising that some people like to latch on to it.
Perhaps. But I feel that not all Saiyans would be Asian, some would, some wouldn't. I personally choose not to trouble my head over it.


And the Kale and Caulifla is something I have no issue with. If they are a couple its cute. If not its okay.
I've always viewed the Saiyans and characters like Roshi, Tien, Yamcha and Chi-Chi as vaguely Asian or Eurasian, and the Japanese Fandom seems to see them that way too.

Kale and Caulifla in the anime are clearly written to be ambiguously bisexual, but it's all subtext and up to interpretation. In the manga the subtext isn't there at all.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Majin Man 101 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:21 am

Apparently its unpopular to think that the Majin Boo arc is good. I love almost everything about this arc. The ending leaves a bit to be desired but it does serve a great function of Goku finally showing that he has become the very best and has taken on a new role as a mentor to teach others, as he has nothing more to learn in the ways of combat for himself.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Xeogran » Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:04 am

Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:21 am as he has nothing more to learn in the ways of combat for himself.
Super makes this doubtful now. Theres' only one year left in universe, and he will be above Beerus at last? Still a long way to go until the Angels though, unless he decides just not to climb that high (but that isn't Goku-like)

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Majin Man 101 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:48 pm

Xeogran wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:04 am
Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:21 am as he has nothing more to learn in the ways of combat for himself.
Super makes this doubtful now. Theres' only one year left in universe, and he will be above Beerus at last? Still a long way to go until the Angels though, unless he decides just not to climb that high (but that isn't Goku-like)
Yes but Super is an after thought made many many years later, its just as “canon” as GT, and there is no reason one must view it as a real continuation of the manga just because the powers that be say so. Majin Boo arc is the end of OG story, and Super never happened in the original Manga.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:07 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:48 pm
Xeogran wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:04 am
Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:21 am as he has nothing more to learn in the ways of combat for himself.
Super makes this doubtful now. Theres' only one year left in universe, and he will be above Beerus at last? Still a long way to go until the Angels though, unless he decides just not to climb that high (but that isn't Goku-like)
Yes but Super is an after thought made many many years later, its just as “canon” as GT, and there is no reason one must view it as a real continuation of the manga just because the powers that be say so. Majin Boo arc is the end of OG story, and Super never happened in the original Manga.
Just adding I agree with this sentiment. Super is only relevant when talking about Super. It came out 20 years after the original manga ended and should have jack all to do with discussing the merits of the original manga or OG and Z anime series.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Majin Man 101 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:32 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:07 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:48 pm
Xeogran wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:04 am

Super makes this doubtful now. Theres' only one year left in universe, and he will be above Beerus at last? Still a long way to go until the Angels though, unless he decides just not to climb that high (but that isn't Goku-like)
Yes but Super is an after thought made many many years later, its just as “canon” as GT, and there is no reason one must view it as a real continuation of the manga just because the powers that be say so. Majin Boo arc is the end of OG story, and Super never happened in the original Manga.
Just adding I agree with this sentiment. Super is only relevant when talking about Super. It came out 20 years after the original manga ended and should have jack all to do with discussing the merits of the original manga or OG and Z anime series.
Absolutely. I don’t blame people for falling into the trap of listening to TOEI/Toriyamas BS about official continuation, but ultimately they have no say by this point. Toriyama is such an unreliable source for any Dragon Ball information because he has forgotten just about every detail of his own series, and I don’t know why people always bow down to him for every retcon he states in an interview of puts into Dragon Ball Super.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MrGohanks » Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:44 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:21 am Apparently its unpopular to think that the Majin Boo arc is good. I love almost everything about this arc. The ending leaves a bit to be desired but it does serve a great function of Goku finally showing that he has become the very best and has taken on a new role as a mentor to teach others, as he has nothing more to learn in the ways of combat for himself.
That goes against the spirit of the character as laid out in the OG manga itself. There is no theoretical "end" of Goku's self imposed journey of self-improvement (which is further emphasized by him being a Saiyan, a race with infinite potential), even Toriyama himself mentioned this back in 1995 when the OG manga ended. Its part of the reason why Goku lefted with Uub in the first place, and Vegeta's last words in the OG manga.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MrGohanks » Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:50 pm

Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:32 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:07 pm
Majin Man 101 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:48 pm

Yes but Super is an after thought made many many years later, its just as “canon” as GT, and there is no reason one must view it as a real continuation of the manga just because the powers that be say so. Majin Boo arc is the end of OG story, and Super never happened in the original Manga.
Just adding I agree with this sentiment. Super is only relevant when talking about Super. It came out 20 years after the original manga ended and should have jack all to do with discussing the merits of the original manga or OG and Z anime series.
Absolutely. I don’t blame people for falling into the trap of listening to TOEI/Toriyamas BS about official continuation, but ultimately they have no say by this point. Toriyama is such an unreliable source for any Dragon Ball information because he has forgotten just about every detail of his own series, and I don’t know why people always bow down to him for every retcon he states in an interview of puts into Dragon Ball Super.
Just because the creators and producers of a series says things about it that you don't like doesn't mean that they don't count, that's just your bias showing. They are the ones who determine what is what in DragonBall at the end of the day, and Toriyama hasn't forgotten nearly as much as you and many other fans think he has, especially when it comes to major elements of the story.

"Death of the Author" doesn't apply here. If Toriyama's and Toei's views on DragonBall don't matter then nobody else's does either.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ChronoTwigger » Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:07 pm

Old DB sexist stuff is fun.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:16 pm

ChronoTwigger wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:07 pm Old DB sexist stuff is fun.
I would wager this isn't particularly "unpopular" (just like most of the things people say are "unpopular opinions" that actually aren't), and judging by the fact that you threw "WOKE" as a potential title in another thread (combined with, in retrospect, looking back through some of your other posts), I'm going to go out on a limb and call this out as just some sad performative nonsense here. "Oh nose, look at persecuted me, let's stir up the libs" kinda rabble.

Please, folks: skip us on this comedy tour. No-one's coming to white-out the old Turtle Hermit pages.
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