Unpopular DB opinions

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:12 am

Every now and then Vollmer would give a line delivery I really liked., “Don’t! Be! Maaaaad!” comes to mind , and I’m somewhat used to her performance but yeah in general outside the Middle age Librarian voice in Sleeping Princess she’s my least favorite Bulma voice under the Funimation license.

User avatar
SuperSaiyaManZ94
I Live Here
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Location: Alabama, USA

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:13 pm

Indeed, but of course early on her voice was really grating. Especially in DBZ Season 3 where she sounded like a stereotype vain bratty valley girl because Vollmer's take really did feel like that early on, though she did gradually grow out of it later on by the time of the OG DB and later productions. Of course, i still prefer Wendee Lee, Lalaina Lindbjerg, Maggie Blue O' Hara and Monica Rial's respective versions of Bulma because they seemed to fit her character much better overall.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

DatHenson
Newbie
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:04 am

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by DatHenson » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:37 am

I guess I have 2
1, Not really a fan of the term "Ki" being used in English. It's literally just energy in Japanese, not some "hyper specific technique"
It makes less sense to treat it as strictly a martial arts technique given all the aliens know it. It's not mystic, it's just energy
Heck, many attack names in Japan are blatantly "Energy-X"
Like Kienzan -> Energy Disc. It's just generic
Don't get me wrong, dubs using untranslated names aren't that uncommon. See Pikachu's name
But something as broad and basic as this doesn't really merit that

The second opinion I have; Toriyama's humor isn't that good
The biggest issue is how easily it can be spammed, and how it's as subtle as a freight train on a box. Particularly for perversion, and naivety. I'm pretty sure most were engrossed in DBall not for the humor, but because it was a large Adventure, that added a unique cast of characters in addition to actually seeing a flow of time progress in breaks.
Interestingly the humor seemed to have lessened in the manga for the Freeza-Cell saga (despite anime filler adding more), though then the Buu saga tried adding it back
Which felt...tonally inconsistent. Also caused fans to incorrectly flanderize Vegeta and Goku, and look what happened. Super Goku's a dunce, and Vegeta at first regressed from Buu saga

It's scenes like Arale immediately beating up General Blue that feel...deflated. We just went through an arc with that antag, and it feels extremely undeserved for the win

Similarly, randomly dicking Yamcha for laughs just to conveniently pair Bulma up with Vegeta. Or treating pretty much any use of Goten/Trunks as an "oh, they're stupid kids" joke

Don't get me wrong, he can be legitimately funny and playful at bits. But when it's forced, it just comes off as immature, gross, or tone disruptive

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:02 am

DatHenson wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:37 am Interestingly the humor seemed to have lessened in the manga for the Freeza-Cell saga (despite anime filler adding more), though then the Buu saga tried adding it back
Which felt...tonally inconsistent. Also caused fans to incorrectly flanderize Vegeta and Goku, and look what happened. Super Goku's a dunce, and Vegeta at first regressed from Buu saga


Similarly, randomly dicking Yamcha for laughs just to conveniently pair Bulma up with Vegeta. Or treating pretty much any use of Goten/Trunks as an "oh, they're stupid kids" joke
I actually think the way the Boo saga merges humor with the stakes is one of its greatest strengths, and I'm not sure anyone could have pulled it off as well as Toriyama. The dumbest thing Goku did in this arc was leaving the fate of the world to Goten and Trunks...but even that isn't all that dumb because he believed Gohan was dead, Vegeta was dead, and he had to return to Otherworld. And given Gohan's maturity as a little kid, since Goku doesn't really know Goten or Trunks, I think it's safe to say he assumed they had Kid Gohan's maturity (despite growing up during peacetime). I guess the argument is that he should have been serious against Boo in SSJ3, but Goku really believed his time on earth was up and that the kids were the future. Other than that, I don't feel like he's ever that stupid in the Boo arc. To me, his character there feels like a seasoned veteran who knows how to respond in tight situations. As for Vegeta, sure he had a genocidal tantrum once Goku came back, but I don't even see how he's dumb for much of this arc. But anyway, Goku in the Boo arc doesn't at all remind me of the overly dumb Super Goku.

As for Yamcha, all of that is still in-line with how Toriyama has always treated him. Despite him being cool and having more prominence in OG DB, the character was always humiliated at the expense of more powerful characters. That, and his relationship with Bulma was never all that great to begin with. I respect your opinion, but Bulma ending up with Vegeta instead is actually an example of good writing by Toriyama to me.

To me, Dragon Ball humor shines the most not when it's perversion-based, but moreso in scenarios like Man-Wolf during the 22nd Budokai. The whole "I have a feeling he won't have any better luck with women" and "I think he was better off as a wolf"...that stuff is gold.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

User avatar
BeaBumby
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:51 am
Location: Wario Land
Contact:

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by BeaBumby » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:10 am

Does Dr. Slump have better comedy? I would assume so, since that's his main comedy manga
Hiya! I'm Bea :]
she/her yknow


uhhh me icon was drawn by bestest friend ever! feel free to compliment their artistic prowess!

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:52 am

BeaBumby wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:10 am Does Dr. Slump have better comedy? I would assume so, since that's his main comedy manga
I haven't (yet) read any Dr. Slump, but I'm assuming the humor is probably very in-line with Dragon Ball's up to the mid-RRA arc, especially with how seamlessly the Dr. Slump humor blended in with the General Blue arc.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

MyVisionity
Banned
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:51 pm
Location: US

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:55 am

DatHenson wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:37 am 1, Not really a fan of the term "Ki" being used in English. It's literally just energy in Japanese, not some "hyper specific technique"
It makes less sense to treat it as strictly a martial arts technique given all the aliens know it. It's not mystic, it's just energy
Heck, many attack names in Japan are blatantly "Energy-X"
Like Kienzan -> Energy Disc. It's just generic
Don't get me wrong, dubs using untranslated names aren't that uncommon. See Pikachu's name
But something as broad and basic as this doesn't really merit that
No. This is totally false. Ki is not simply "energy" in Japanese. Nor is it a concept that is exclusive to the martial arts. Yes, it is mysticism, among other things. No, those are not the attack names. There's nothing generic about Ki.

DatHenson wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:37 am Interestingly the humor seemed to have lessened in the manga for the Freeza-Cell saga (despite anime filler adding more), though then the Buu saga tried adding it back
Which felt...tonally inconsistent.
I agree. The Boo saga humor doesn't work for me. DB had long since moved forward and left the gag style behind. To attempt to go backwards was a mistake in my view.

User avatar
Soppa Saia People
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:26 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:00 am

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:52 am I haven't (yet) read any Dr. Slump, but I'm assuming the humor is probably very in-line with Dragon Ball's up to the mid-RRA arc, especially with how seamlessly the Dr. Slump humor blended in with the General Blue arc.
not really ? it's way more like absurdist stuff then anything dragon ball ever did, and is just super all over the place nonstop, like take the most silly joke in dragon ball, and then times that by a lot and then expand it over 15 pages. honestly i think Dr slump is geuininely hilarious, i have no idea why mangaka have like the most gremlin sense of humor but god, the mid volumes of Dr. slump (from the tsun's introduction to obotchaman's) is so consistent and wall to wall with its humor. the first couple volumes and last couple i think are kinda weaker, and i really don't like the more storyline stuff, but stuff like the chapter where arale shoots herself with a gun while dressed in a bee costume just kills me.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.

🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:19 am

Soppa Saia People wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:00 am
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:52 am I haven't (yet) read any Dr. Slump, but I'm assuming the humor is probably very in-line with Dragon Ball's up to the mid-RRA arc, especially with how seamlessly the Dr. Slump humor blended in with the General Blue arc.
not really ? it's way more like absurdist stuff then anything dragon ball ever did, and is just super all over the place nonstop, like take the most silly joke in dragon ball, and then times that by a lot and then expand it over 15 pages. honestly i think Dr slump is geuininely hilarious, i have no idea why mangaka have like the most gremlin sense of humor but god, the mid volumes of Dr. slump (from the tsun's introduction to obotchaman's) is so consistent and wall to wall with its humor. the first couple volumes and last couple i think are kinda weaker, and i really don't like the more storyline stuff, but stuff like the chapter where arale shoots herself with a gun while dressed in a bee costume just kills me.
Thanks for clarifying! I guess even in Dragon Ball, the Dr. Slump segment was pretty absurdist and what not, it's just that the difference got more pronounced beyond that. But I'll be interested in reading it eventually to see what a pure comedy from Toriyama is like.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

User avatar
PremiumSalt
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:58 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PremiumSalt » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:49 pm

Here's one, at least around here I'd imagine:

Having rewatched it with a friend recently, the Dragon Ball Super dub is an overall solid English Dub, and the added jokes and such here and there do not even remotely drag it down to the degree people made them out to be when it was airing.
Dragon Ball Arc Rankings: 1. Piccolo Daimaō 2. Saiyan 3. 22nd Budōkai 4. 23rd Budōkai 5. Hunt For the Dragon Balls 6. Zamasu 7. Moro 8. Tournament of Power 9. 21st Budōkai 10. Broly 11. Battle of Gods 12. Boo 13. U6 Tournament 14. Freeza 15. Red Ribbon Army 16. Artificial Humans/Cell 17.Golden Freeza
Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.

User avatar
SuperSaiyaManZ94
I Live Here
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Location: Alabama, USA

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:31 pm

PremiumSalt wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:49 pm Here's one, at least around here I'd imagine:

Having rewatched it with a friend recently, the Dragon Ball Super dub is an overall solid English Dub, and the added jokes and such here and there do not even remotely drag it down to the degree people made them out to be when it was airing.
True, i don't find the Super dub to be anywhere near the level of the old DBZ dub from a scripting level like some make it out to be, the writers aren't inserting cringe worthy jokes and one liners which were bad attempts at comedy all over the place like in Z. You don't have decade plus out of fashion lingo (That's right boys, Mondo Cool!!!!) and other such trash being uttered every other line, or completely changing the tone of the series based on some interpretation /vision like Barry Watson and other higher ups at FUNimation did at the time.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

Dragon Ball Ireland
I Live Here
Posts: 3510
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Sligo, Ireland

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:52 pm

I like Super's dub for the acting, and overall feeling like I'm watching the same show I did when I first saw the Fuji TV airings. I think what really rubs fans the wrong way about Funimation's approach to Super was what Chris Sabat said at Kameha Con when Geekdom asked him why the changes were made. Sabat responded by saying since fans had already seen the Japanese version they wanted to give them something different in the dub, which went against the whole "this time we're doing it right" mantra himself and Schemmel always acted so proud of in Kai. For Sabat to say what he said felt like backtracking, and implied that none of the enthusiasm they once had for staying true to the source mattered.

As a whole is the Super dub perfect? No, but neither is Kai. Is it terrible? Not at all. Do some fans blow it's flaws out of proportion? Certainly. Nonetheless it's taking into account the aforementioned inconsistent philosophies going from Kai to Super that I can understand the frustration of many fans that might have felt cheated by the latter's dub.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:24 pm

I don’t think it’s backtracking just different circumstances.


Dragon Ball Z Kai’s dub was done for English dub fans. It allowed them to see Dragon Ball Z the way it was intended (script wise). Sub fans never needed Kai. They had the subtitle version of Dragon Ball Z legally available to them.

Dragon Ball Super was a different story. The subtitle version was easily and legally available on Crunchyroll before Funimation licensed the dub. Dub fans who would normally never even bother with Dragon Ball in Japanese were watching Super subbed because it was either that or wait longer to see it dubbed. Sure some fans still waited for the dub because “i lIkE mY gOkU vOiCeD bY a mAn tHaNk yOu” but way more dub fans definitely watched Super with subs than even bothered with any of the other Dragon Ball series that was introduced to them in English.


So I can understand, if not agree with, Sabat’s logic that they should have a bit of fun with the dialog since most of their usual fanbase had already seen the Japanese version.

User avatar
Ironixie
Newbie
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:33 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ironixie » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:01 am

Izanagi wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:40 pm The Dragon Ball fandom chiefly hates Ribrianne because she is pink, hyper-feminine and overweight. All things that the obnoxious, testosterone obsessed dudebros that make up much of the casual and even hardcore fandom for Dragon Ball and much of the anime community despises.

And before anyone tries to "not all!" me or argue, yes, there are legitimate reasons to not like Ribrianne, fair enough. But between the fat shaming jokes and focus on her "hideous" appearance, and the sheer cartoonish levels of vitriol aimed at her that other disliked characters don't get to nearly the same extent (except for Caulifla and Kale by much of the same people), it's transparently obvious that the hate goes well beyond simple "bad character" complaints.

It's even more mind-boggling that Broly went from someone who was barely above Namek arc Goku to beyond SSB in a single fight, in a matter of a few minutes and nobody sees an issue with it. In fact, they're praising him for being overpowered.

But when Caulifla and Kale goes from a level above Base Goku after training Whis to roughly around SSB and SS2 tier, then the whole Dragon Ball fandom goes apeshit.

This fandom has a toxic masculinity problem. It has for a long time. And it's something people really need to start having conversations about and doing some self-reflecting on. Or you can all just call me a contrarian and a SJW snowflake, I guess.
I do not think Caulifla and Kale are really that comparable to Broly as characters storywise, as Broly has had a more thought-out story and an entire movie building his character. I remember disliking Kale because she was just a copy of Broly and I already didn't think positively of the original Broly, but then I saw her manga version and liked her more, as in the anime she was a bulking mass of muscle, that was hinting a little too strongly at being a Broly knock-off, but in the manga, it's more subtle and it also seems almost like her own thing, and then the anime followed that up with her perfect berserk, and then I opened up to her more since she seemed to go in her own kind of path.

As for Caulifla, I didn't like her because she's kind of an asshole to be frank, and she learned super saiyan and ssj2 too fast, though the same case could be made about Goten and Trunks, though they were kids and I thought they were cute, so I gave them a pass. Also they got dusted and left behind anyway. So anyway, I don't want her to progress any further without some type of justification, even if she is some kind of prodigy, because she made every other saiyan on her team kind of look like shit, in fact I used to somewhat be fond of Cabba before her, now I think he progresses too slow and I think he's pathetic these days.

As for Ribrianne, I can't say I really thought anything of her, she quite literally has no character besides being some kind of symbol of love in her universe, she's just someone there to get punched and make the other characters look cool. In fact, all of the tournament of power females don't have much to go off of in terms of characters. I can't say I think strongly of any of them because they don't have anything that fundamental of character besides maybe having a gimmick, specific personality trait or something along those lines, but no real origin that can keep them from telling a story on their own based on what we already know of.

Gridlock
Newbie
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:10 pm

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gridlock » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:30 am

Izanagi wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:40 pm The Dragon Ball fandom chiefly hates Ribrianne because she is pink, hyper-feminine and overweight. All things that the obnoxious, testosterone obsessed dudebros that make up much of the casual and even hardcore fandom for Dragon Ball and much of the anime community despises.
Personally, I don't like her because she's a 1-2 episode worth of jokes... Sorry, one joke, that she treats love in a very superficial way, streched into what, 14? It got really old fast, and she didn't offer anything else beyond that. If she was knock out of ring after 1-2, maybe 3 episodes I wouldn't mind her that much. But wasting so much time, pushing that one joke? Ugh.

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4163
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:15 pm

I don’t despise Ribrianne, but she’s a fairly one-note character, which wouldn’t be much of a problem, if the anime hadn’t given her as much focus as it did. Despite my problems with the manga version of the Tournament of Power, I prefer how it handles Ribrianne. She doesn’t overstay her welcome in that version.

User avatar
Hellspawn28
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 15181
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:39 pm

I don't get the love for Goten? I always felt like that he was created because they need another kid to replace Gohan with.
She/Her
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:06 pm

But she's not just a joke. She has some really good fights in the tournament. Unlike Great Saiyaman who is just a joke that goes on WAY too long and we don't get any good fights.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
90sDBZ
I Live Here
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 90sDBZ » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:52 pm

ABED wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:06 pm But she's not just a joke. She has some really good fights in the tournament. Unlike Great Saiyaman who is just a joke that goes on WAY too long and we don't get any good fights.
Ribrianne's annoying antics go on for way too long, which overshadows her fights being decent. Everytime she and her crew are onscreen the action comes to a screeching halt, and I roll my eyes.

MyVisionity
Banned
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:51 pm
Location: US

Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:27 pm

ABED wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:06 pm But she's not just a joke. She has some really good fights in the tournament. Unlike Great Saiyaman who is just a joke that goes on WAY too long and we don't get any good fights.
Saiyaman isn't a martial artist, he's a superhero crimefighter. His stories aren't about good fights, they're about stopping crime and the trials of maintaining a dual identity.

Post Reply