Unpopular DB opinions

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ABED
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:18 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:aesthetically it definitely is the best of all the Dragon Ball series
Uhh what? Have you seen the Zamasu and ToP arcs? They are aesthetically massively superior to anything coming from the other 3 DB series.
How do you figure?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by PFM18 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:43 pm

ABED wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:aesthetically it definitely is the best of all the Dragon Ball series
Uhh what? Have you seen the Zamasu and ToP arcs? They are aesthetically massively superior to anything coming from the other 3 DB series.
How do you figure?
The animation and art is just better. Not sure how else to put it. You haven't seen them so you wouldn't know but by the time they got to the middle portions of DBS it had extremely good animation especially compared to the previous series that came out in the 90s.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GT_Goten10 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:17 am

more:
-I love that Goku is a kid again in GT
- I had never a big problem with DBS Animation
-I had never A Problem with Gohan being a „nerd“
-A Heroes Legacy is my favorite movie/special
-I like DB Minus
-Buu Arc is my favorite arc in DBZ
-Gotenks is a useless character
-GT Goten is my favorite character
-I prefer SSG over any other Transformations in DBS(even Ultra instinkt)
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:13 am

ABED wrote:It's not a stock thing anymore than the "every villain is the hero of their own story" is. It's all about execution, and Freeza is well executed. What do you consider depth?

Freeza's façade isn't about fooling anyone, it's what he thinks he is. It's how he sees himself.

You bring up Piccolo Daimao, but he's literally evil incarnate. What's the difference?
I mean, the way I see it, half of all villains are "the hero of their own story", the other half are more of a force of nature type villain.
Thing is, force of nature type villains don't generally have motivations any deeper than "i am evil", as is the case with Freeza.
Again, you say "Execution", but all that affects is how entertaining he is in terms of his personality, how he holds himself, etc. He's still just an evil snake who does evil things for the sake of doing evil things.

Piccolo Daimao, in his original incarnation, wasn't much more deep or complex than Freeza. I do personally think he was done much better -- basically everything about his presence was a subversion of everything Dragon Ball had taught you to expect up to that point; he was pretty much jarringly sadistic, and yet unlike every other villain up to that point, his plan pretty much succeeds, and the only thing that ends up standing in his way is when Goku finally faces off with him in the final confrontation. But, the true genius of Piccolo, and the place where he gets one big edge in terms of depth and complexity is his reincarnated form, who initially is basically just Piccolo but younger, but as time goes on, he undergoes an incredible character arc, and we see the true depths of who this person is.
I suppose there is also the thing about the lore behind Piccolo; he was all the selfish, evil impulses of God, ejected out and unleashed upon the world to wreak havoc, and that's why he's basically an eccentric evil madman who lives only to hurt and destroy. He's not just "evil incarnate", as you say, he's all the selfish and "Evil" impulses of God, given physical form. On its own, this is little more than "oh and here's the backstory" for a personality that's not particularly deep or complex, but the thing that really makes it interesting is when Piccolo Jr. undergoes his development, and we see him redeem himself. It says a lot about the inherent selifishness and evil of people as far as Toriyama and the world of Dragon Ball is concerned, and it makes for some rather interesting stuff to ponder about the nature of Piccolo, as he goes on to become something of a zen monk.
But it also says a lot about God; for all his meditative approaches to solutions, and his seemingly all-good nature, he inflicted Piccolo on the world as a shortcut so he could become God, when actually the evil within him was not beyond taming, and presumably if he'd worked at it, he could have prevented Piccolo Daimao from ever cursing the earth... But, then we wouldn't have had Piccolo Jr., so... It's interesting, there's a lot to dig into there.
GT_Goten10 wrote:-I prefer SSG over any other Transformations in DBS(even Ultra instinkt)
I mean, SSB is basically just "oh we can't use ssb because we said we couldn't so let's just change the colour and take away those minor things that might make it less marketable and harder to write for and call it a new form." It doesn't even make sense, and when they tried to explain it, it ended up making even less sense than if they'd just left it unexplained.
And Ultra Instinct is just dumb. Not gonna even bother going into that one. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
SSG is actually pretty neat; I love that it looks different to all the prior transformations, I love that it gives Goku a youthful look, I love that it looks very much like "He has ascended to a higher form, a god-like form"... It's great. Miles and miles ahead of any of the nonsese Super craps out every couple of arcs.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:26 am

Freeza's motivation isn't "I'm evil". He doesn't think in those terms. He's out for power, be it power through control of his empire or through physically hurting people. He's after the Dragon Balls because he wants to live forever so he can rule forever and never let go of that power. Power lust is a real world motivation. Freeza isn't out to do evil for the sake of evil. He doesn't care about good vs. evil. Now wrap that up in a weird looking creature that carries himself as a gentlemen, both physically and the way he speaks (e.g. the erudition)

Piccolo on the other hand was after evil and destruction for its own sake because he was literal evil.

You keep talking about depth, but I have no idea what your conception of depth is.
The animation and art is just better. Not sure how else to put it. You haven't seen them so you wouldn't know but by the time they got to the middle portions of DBS it had extremely good animation especially compared to the previous series that came out in the 90s.
No, but I have seen clips, so I can chime and say, I don't think anything from Super looks that good. I don't like the look of the show. Some is better than the other, but I prefer the cell animation of DB from the 80s-90s.
He's not just "evil incarnate", as you say, he's all the selfish and "Evil" impulses of God, given physical form. On its own, this is little more than "oh and here's the backstory" for a personality that's not particularly deep or complex, but the thing that really makes it interesting is when Piccolo Jr. undergoes his development, and we see him redeem himself. It says a lot about the inherent selifishness and evil of people as far as Toriyama and the world of Dragon Ball is concerned, and it makes for some rather interesting stuff to ponder about the nature of Piccolo, as he goes on to become something of a zen monk.
That IS what I meant be evil incarnate. He's the evil from Kami that was given physical form. Piccolo Jr.'s development is interesting but the reason he's able to undergo that change is because when he's reborn, he has a soul. If he was the first Daimao, he wouldn't have been able to change. I might be wrong about that last point, but it's true to the best of my understanding of a post Kunzait made a while ago. Regardless, Piccolo's character development isn't like Vegeta's, it's made possible through some religious concept.

Now, Piccolo (both versions) are fun/interesting to watch, but so is Freeza. All stuff we are talking about are abstract and fun to discuss, but don't necessarily make them enjoyable to watch in the moment. My fundamental point is that none of this discussion about depth means a damn thing if the character you watch is boring. Hans Gruber lacks depth. He's not after anything deeper than a lot of money. It's his charisma and Alan Rickman's performance that makes a potentially bland pulp villain into a classic cinematic villain. Compare that to the thousand of other bland, unmemorable villains that you see when you go to the movies that have supposedly deep motives like revenge for the death of a relative or after some goal they deem good, but through questionable means. Execution is paramount. Freeza's not deep, but his demeanor and Nakao or Ayres performance make him a classic villain
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:08 am

GT_Goten10 wrote:more:
-I love that Goku is a kid again in GT
- I had never a big problem with DBS Animation
-I had never A Problem with Gohan being a „nerd“
-A Heroes Legacy is my favorite movie/special
-I like DB Minus
-Buu Arc is my favorite arc in DBZ
-Gotenks is a useless character
-GT Goten is my favorite character
-I prefer SSG over any other Transformations in DBS(even Ultra instinkt)
Once again i have to agree with most of those.
"A Hero's Legacy" is my favourite special, although my favourite movie has to be "Path to Power"
I don't like DB Minus, although i still like it more than "Episode of Bardock"
I like GT Goten but he is far from being my favourite character

Other than that i agree with everything.
Except for 5 episode and RoF saga i didn't mind DBS animation as much as some people. I didn't like this series for other reasons that were more important to me than animation. In fact, despite being ugly i think RoF saga is overall slightly better in anime than in movie thanks to Tagoma not being such wasted character as in movie.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GT_Goten10 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
GT_Goten10 wrote:more:
-I love that Goku is a kid again in GT
- I had never a big problem with DBS Animation
-I had never A Problem with Gohan being a „nerd“
-A Heroes Legacy is my favorite movie/special
-I like DB Minus
-Buu Arc is my favorite arc in DBZ
-Gotenks is a useless character
-GT Goten is my favorite character
-I prefer SSG over any other Transformations in DBS(even Ultra instinkt)
Once again i have to agree with most of those.
"A Hero's Legacy" is my favourite special, although my favourite movie has to be "Path to Power"
I don't like DB Minus, although i still like it more than "Episode of Bardock"
I like GT Goten but he is far from being my favourite character

Other than that i agree with everything.
Except for 5 episode and RoF saga i didn't mind DBS animation as much as some people. I didn't like this series for other reasons that were more important to me than animation. In fact, despite being ugly i think RoF saga is overall slightly better in anime than in movie thanks to Tagoma not being such wasted character as in movie.
the roF arc is for me definitely the worst arc in DB

what I love about GT Goten is how he has his own personality, which is very different from his father and that he is not just the sidekick of Goku or especially Trunks
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:55 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
GT_Goten10 wrote:more:
-I love that Goku is a kid again in GT
- I had never a big problem with DBS Animation
-I had never A Problem with Gohan being a „nerd“
-A Heroes Legacy is my favorite movie/special
-I like DB Minus
-Buu Arc is my favorite arc in DBZ
-Gotenks is a useless character
-GT Goten is my favorite character
-I prefer SSG over any other Transformations in DBS(even Ultra instinkt)
Once again i have to agree with most of those.
"A Hero's Legacy" is my favourite special, although my favourite movie has to be "Path to Power"
I don't like DB Minus, although i still like it more than "Episode of Bardock"
I like GT Goten but he is far from being my favourite character

Other than that i agree with everything.
Except for 5 episode and RoF saga i didn't mind DBS animation as much as some people. I didn't like this series for other reasons that were more important to me than animation. In fact, despite being ugly i think RoF saga is overall slightly better in anime than in movie thanks to Tagoma not being such wasted character as in movie.
I like GT Goten but his hair is boring and I prefer the hair he had in end of Z, the Gine haircut

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GT_Goten10 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:06 am

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:
GT_Goten10 wrote:more:
-I love that Goku is a kid again in GT
- I had never a big problem with DBS Animation
-I had never A Problem with Gohan being a „nerd“
-A Heroes Legacy is my favorite movie/special
-I like DB Minus
-Buu Arc is my favorite arc in DBZ
-Gotenks is a useless character
-GT Goten is my favorite character
-I prefer SSG over any other Transformations in DBS(even Ultra instinkt)
Once again i have to agree with most of those.
"A Hero's Legacy" is my favourite special, although my favourite movie has to be "Path to Power"
I don't like DB Minus, although i still like it more than "Episode of Bardock"
I like GT Goten but he is far from being my favourite character

Other than that i agree with everything.
Except for 5 episode and RoF saga i didn't mind DBS animation as much as some people. I didn't like this series for other reasons that were more important to me than animation. In fact, despite being ugly i think RoF saga is overall slightly better in anime than in movie thanks to Tagoma not being such wasted character as in movie.
I like GT Goten but his hair is boring and I prefer the hair he had in end of Z, the Gine haircut
I'm curious what hairstyle Toriyama will choose for Goten
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:27 am

GT_Goten10 wrote:
mahakaishin1991 wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Once again i have to agree with most of those.
"A Hero's Legacy" is my favourite special, although my favourite movie has to be "Path to Power"
I don't like DB Minus, although i still like it more than "Episode of Bardock"
I like GT Goten but he is far from being my favourite character

Other than that i agree with everything.
Except for 5 episode and RoF saga i didn't mind DBS animation as much as some people. I didn't like this series for other reasons that were more important to me than animation. In fact, despite being ugly i think RoF saga is overall slightly better in anime than in movie thanks to Tagoma not being such wasted character as in movie.
I like GT Goten but his hair is boring and I prefer the hair he had in end of Z, the Gine haircut
I'm curious what hairstyle Toriyama will choose for Goten
In terms of what? I dont think he's bein aged up anytime soon

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:28 am

Unpopular opinion time.

I would have rather seen less focus on the main cast in the tournament and given every single one of the mooks ONE special ability, than devote multiple episodes to some threats. Some characters had multiple fights that dragged on (Toppo, Kale and Kalifla, Dyspo) and it wasnt needed

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by GT_Goten10 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:48 am

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
GT_Goten10 wrote:
mahakaishin1991 wrote:
I like GT Goten but his hair is boring and I prefer the hair he had in end of Z, the Gine haircut
I'm curious what hairstyle Toriyama will choose for Goten
In terms of what? I dont think he's bein aged up anytime soon
DBS comes closer to the end of Z or not?
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Ripper 30 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:09 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Ripper 30 wrote:Sabat has to always force his voice when he does vegeta and as you said about Bulma its pretty accurate. that's why the new voices from Kai onwards like that of Freeza, Beerus, Whis, Hit and Vados have been accurate.
Yeah, from what I've seen of the Super dub, he does sometimes feel kinda forced as Vegeta. He's a much better actor when he's not altering his voice. Just acting naturally made his Zoro, All Might, Kai Piccolo and Armstrong sound great. Doing a goofy voice for Kuwabara, on the other hand, not so much. Just ugh. And I came across a clip of the Attack on Titan Season 2 dub where he played a moustached guy. He sounded more like a caricature than a character. And when it comes to Yamcha, he just overplays the loser aspect of the character.

I think that's the problem with multiple Dub voices of FUNimation when it comes to their Dragon Ball voices. they overplay one aspects of their character and largely ignore the other. that's why i have always preferred Fat Boo voice in Japanese because Josh Martin overplayed Boo's Childish side and made it his only trait and its so annoying to listen to the voice he makes along with the screwed up Third person Tone. Same For Kaio, Kame Sen'nin, etc.
Forte224 wrote:I think his Kai 1.0 performance was just fine for Vegeta. TFC and RoF were good too, I'm not sure why he altered things so much for Super
I'll agree that he was fine, but I still think someone could have done a better job.[/quote]
in the Saiyan arc part of Kai Dub, Sabat's Vegeta was a lot like his Remastered Dub one in terms of raspiness (just a little) but in Namek it was much more smoother.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:57 pm

Ripper 30 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Ripper 30 wrote:Sabat has to always force his voice when he does vegeta and as you said about Bulma its pretty accurate. that's why the new voices from Kai onwards like that of Freeza, Beerus, Whis, Hit and Vados have been accurate.
Yeah, from what I've seen of the Super dub, he does sometimes feel kinda forced as Vegeta. He's a much better actor when he's not altering his voice. Just acting naturally made his Zoro, All Might, Kai Piccolo and Armstrong sound great. Doing a goofy voice for Kuwabara, on the other hand, not so much. Just ugh. And I came across a clip of the Attack on Titan Season 2 dub where he played a moustached guy. He sounded more like a caricature than a character. And when it comes to Yamcha, he just overplays the loser aspect of the character.

I think that's the problem with multiple Dub voices of FUNimation when it comes to their Dragon Ball voices. they overplay one aspects of their character and largely ignore the other. that's why i have always preferred Fat Boo voice in Japanese because Josh Martin overplayed Boo's Childish side and made it his only trait and its so annoying to listen to the voice he makes along with the screwed up Third person Tone. Same For Kaio, Kame Sen'nin, etc.


I don't understand how many people can tolerate that grating voice.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by DestructoDisc » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:00 pm

I wasn't a fan of Android 17 in Dragon Ball Super. I thought he was boring and uninteresting and him suddenly being one of the smartest fighters came a little out of nowhere. He wasn't really even that smart. I mean, using rocks to stop a God of Destruction tier character? Really? And him surviving his self destruction was BS and poorly written. Really don't understand why many people think he was the best thing about the Universal Survival arc. I actually liked him a lot more in the Android saga.

Gohan in Piccolo's gi looks terrible in the DBS manga.

I liked the Super 17 saga.

Android 21 doesn't look attractive at all to me.

I'm not a huge fan of the upcoming Broly movie's artstyle. Many people think it's the best looking thing that came out of Dragon Ball since ever, but I honestly think it's just okay.

Speaking of the upcoming movie, I am not excited for it. At all. I had enough of Broly. Give us some fresh new villains already.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:10 pm

DestructoDisc wrote:Speaking of the upcoming movie, I am not excited for it. At all. I had enough of Broly. Give us some fresh new villains already.
We may be a minority compared to the large mass but that certainly ain't an unpopular opinion, I'm sure there are a lot of people who fortunately think like that too.

We are hungry for fresh stuff, or at least old but interesting concepts/characters being revisited, but all we get are these nonsense...

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:57 pm

Grimlock wrote:
DestructoDisc wrote:Speaking of the upcoming movie, I am not excited for it. At all. I had enough of Broly. Give us some fresh new villains already.
We may be a minority compared to the large mass but that certainly ain't an unpopular opinion, I'm sure there are a lot of people who fortunately think like that too.

We are hungry for fresh stuff, or at least old but interesting concepts/characters being revisited, but all we get are these nonsense...
I don't think we're in the minority. I think most people prefer to not rehash stuff over and over. It loses its potency over time.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:17 pm

DestructoDisc wrote:I liked the Super 17 saga.
Me too although it's still the worst GT arc to me. I like it mainly because Super 17 was badass af, but entire concept of villains coming from hell was so wasted, it could be longer than that and great chance to give every character a spotlight.
DestructoDisc wrote:Android 21 doesn't look attractive at all to me.
I think her human form is pretty hot with her glasses and tights. I don't like her dual color top tho, it looks dumb. Not fan of her majin form at all.
Still, she is overrated and the massive amount of fanarts being spammed everywhere was annoying. I think Towa is much more attractive than her.
Also character itself doesn't seem to be interesting at all and wasting her design completely.
DestructoDisc wrote:I'm not a huge fan of the upcoming Broly movie's artstyle. Many people think it's the best looking thing that came out of Dragon Ball since ever, but I honestly think it's just okay.
Same, although teaser looked pretty good, i didn't really like what i saw in trailer. But maybe movie will defend itself. Digimon movies also have that weird ugly artstyle but you can get used to it, at least partially.
DestructoDisc wrote:Speaking of the upcoming movie, I am not excited for it. At all. I had enough of Broly. Give us some fresh new villains already.
Same, with DBS already lacking any real villains this is getting worse and worse. People expected Yamoshi to appear in it and it would be more interesting for sure.
Also, previous movie already had very popular and overused villain return.
It's hard to believe they sold better than Battle of Gods which was very original movie.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:28 pm

GT_Goten10 wrote:
mahakaishin1991 wrote:
GT_Goten10 wrote:
I'm curious what hairstyle Toriyama will choose for Goten
In terms of what? I dont think he's bein aged up anytime soon
DBS comes closer to the end of Z or not?
I think we're a good while off from that at the moment. I think he will go with his original plan....


but I hope we get one last KA KA KA KA KACHI DAZE and Ultra instinct Goku vs Uub for the absolute shits and giggles at the end

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:27 pm

ABED wrote:I think most people prefer to not rehash stuff over and over. It loses its potency over time.
Since the moment Broly was confirmed all I saw was pretty much "excitement, joy, booyah, hooray, boom shaka-laka" everywhere. If that was the case, I'm pretty sure I would see more people sharing my opinion, but this is not something I find everyday.

Hell, I was called "killjoy", "you want attention" and etc when I voiced my dislike about the new movie. That shows how excited people are in general.

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