Unpopular DB opinions

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:09 pm

From what I’ve seen of TTG (I’m not an avid watcher by any means), it seems like it can range from being either surprisingly clever and meta (I guess this would mostly apply to the movie), lowest common denominator nonsense where characters yell about butts and waffles or a show that tries to justify its existence by taking shots at its critics.

Anyway, as many of us are willing to acknowledge, Dragon Ball itself isn’t exactly high brow entertainment, even by the standards of something geared towards kids. It’s no Avatar: The Last Airbender.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Planetnamek » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:28 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:24 pm
Planetnamek wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:10 pm
as you get mind-rotting garbage like Teen Titans Go that does not challenge kids in any way and instead treats them like drooling morons and is only made because suits are convinced this is what kids want,
I’m not really a huge fan but it’s highly successful ratings would indicate it is what kids want?

The movie (which I haven’t seen and am not inclined to) also did well critically .


I dunno I feel like the only people who hate Teen Titans Go are people who were overly attached to the old series. And the old series still exist. 65 episodes and a tv movie.
The ratings have been slipping for quite some time now though, and there's no guarantee it was succesful because of it's obnoxious humor(most of which revolves around butts and bodily fluids) but rather in spite of it, and for all we know a proper follow-up to the original Teen Titans could've done every bit as well in terms of ratings, but execs ran TTG into the ground by doing constant marathons, it wasn't uncommon for 75% or more of CN's schedule to be NOTHING but reruns of TTG, even fans of the show quickly got sick of its overexposure which led to declining ratings, and of course brainless execs thought since TTG turned a previously somewhat thoughtful animated-series into lowest common denominator garbage, they figured doing the same thing to Thundercats would also equal succesful ratings, thankfully they were proven wrong on that front. If I had to guess why one show succeeded where the other failed, it's probably because the original Titans occasionally had more comedic episodes, so TTG was a somewhat logical extension of that(and I must stress that I didn't set out to hate the show from day 1, I was initially actually somewhat interested in TTG and even defended it against others who were decrying it before it came out, but once I actually saw it with my own eyes, I felt incredibly stupid for ever believing in it and for sticking up for it) but Thundercats was never a comedy to begin with, so trying to turn it into a joke backfired horribly with fans of the original series(and those of the 2011 reboot like myself) and didn't attract any new fans.

Also the whole "the old series exists" argument does not automatically make TTG a good show by comparison, and it's an argument that frankly does not hold a lot of water when TTG itself dedicates multiple episodes to attacking fans of the original show(I.E. Let's Get Serious, Return of Slade, The Fourth Wall) which makes it creators come off as downright unprofessional assholes, i mean seriously, i've NEVER seen another reboot show, remake or spin-off where the creators dedicated multiple episodes to outright attacking fans of the original(maybe Thundercats Roar did, but I didn't have the patience or sanity to stomach more then one episode of that rancid sewage to find out :sick: ) that's just beyond the pale, and how the hell are those episodes supposed to appeal to TTG's target demographic who have likely never seen the original show? They certainly aren't going to understand the repeated attacks on fans of the original and will confuse them more then entertain them.

Oh trust me there's PLENTY of people that hate TTG with a passion who never saw a single episode of the original show, you don't need to be familiar with the original to know what a total shitfest TTG is.

Merely criticizing TTG does not mean one is overly attached to the original series, it has it's flaws for sure(that shitty season 5 finale left a bad taste in me and many other fans mouths) but at the very least it didn't treat kids like complete morons like TTG frequently did.

Haven't seen the movie myself, but given that even people who were extremely harsh towards TTG like Mr Enter liked it, I suppose I should get around to seeing it at some point(And hopefully we'll get a proper season 6 for Teen Titans, as that was promised if the TTG movie did well).
WittyUsername wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:09 pm
From what I’ve seen of TTG (I’m not an avid watcher by any means), it seems like it can range from being either surprisingly clever and meta (I guess this would mostly apply to the movie), lowest common denominator nonsense where characters yell about butts and waffles or a show that tries to justify its existence by taking shots at its critics.

Anyway, as many of us are willing to acknowledge, Dragon Ball itself isn’t exactly high brow entertainment, even by the standards of something geared towards kids. It’s no Avatar: The Last Airbender.
I did hear that later seasons improved on the humor and even praised the original show, but I never had the patience to find out, maybe i'll get around to seeing some of those later episodes eventually, but it's not a top priority for me right now.

I honestly never really cared that much for Avatar, I always liked DBZ better. Avatar is a good looking show but the characters just never really grabbed me(nor did Korra).
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:46 pm

They aren't attacking fans of the old show. They are just ribbing obnoxious fans who can't let go of the old series and take superhero stuff WAY too seriously. The movie is basically PG Deadpool. If I'm being honest, I like when shows take dig at fans.
Thundercats was never a comedy to begin with, so trying to turn it into a joke backfired horribly with fans of the original series(and those of the 2011 reboot like myself) and didn't attract any new fans.
No, it was a 30 minute toy commercial. And who cares if the original wasn't a comedy? The reason to do a new version is to do it differently, not just the same old same old. Humor doesn't trivialize these stories. To keep this about DB, by pointing to the absurdity of the over the top aspects it allows me to buy into these worlds, moreso than if they were to take this all SUPER seriously. Zack Snyder, I'm looking at you.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:05 pm

Planetnamek wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:28 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:24 pm
Planetnamek wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:10 pm
as you get mind-rotting garbage like Teen Titans Go that does not challenge kids in any way and instead treats them like drooling morons and is only made because suits are convinced this is what kids want,
I’m not really a huge fan but it’s highly successful ratings would indicate it is what kids want?

The movie (which I haven’t seen and am not inclined to) also did well critically .


I dunno I feel like the only people who hate Teen Titans Go are people who were overly attached to the old series. And the old series still exist. 65 episodes and a tv movie.
The ratings have been slipping for quite some time now though, and there's no guarantee it was succesful because of it's obnoxious humor(most of which revolves around butts and bodily fluids) but rather in spite of it, and for all we know a proper follow-up to the original Teen Titans could've done every bit as well in terms of ratings, but execs ran TTG into the ground by doing constant marathons, it wasn't uncommon for 75% or more of CN's schedule to be NOTHING but reruns of TTG, even fans of the show quickly got sick of its overexposure which led to declining ratings, and of course brainless execs thought since TTG turned a previously somewhat thoughtful animated-series into lowest common denominator garbage, they figured doing the same thing to Thundercats would also equal succesful ratings, thankfully they were proven wrong on that front. If I had to guess why one show succeeded where the other failed, it's probably because the original Titans occasionally had more comedic episodes, so TTG was a somewhat logical extension of that(and I must stress that I didn't set out to hate the show from day 1, I was initially actually somewhat interested in TTG and even defended it against others who were decrying it before it came out, but once I actually saw it with my own eyes, I felt incredibly stupid for ever believing in it and for sticking up for it) but Thundercats was never a comedy to begin with, so trying to turn it into a joke backfired horribly with fans of the original series(and those of the 2011 reboot like myself) and didn't attract any new fans.

Also the whole "the old series exists" argument does not automatically make TTG a good show by comparison, and it's an argument that frankly does not hold a lot of water when TTG itself dedicates multiple episodes to attacking fans of the original show(I.E. Let's Get Serious, Return of Slade, The Fourth Wall) which makes it creators come off as downright unprofessional assholes, i mean seriously, i've NEVER seen another reboot show, remake or spin-off where the creators dedicated multiple episodes to outright attacking fans of the original(maybe Thundercats Roar did, but I didn't have the patience or sanity to stomach more then one episode of that rancid sewage to find out :sick: ) that's just beyond the pale, and how the hell are those episodes supposed to appeal to TTG's target demographic who have likely never seen the original show? They certainly aren't going to understand the repeated attacks on fans of the original and will confuse them more then entertain them.

Oh trust me there's PLENTY of people that hate TTG with a passion who never saw a single episode of the original show, you don't need to be familiar with the original to know what a total shitfest TTG is.

Merely criticizing TTG does not mean one is overly attached to the original series, it has it's flaws for sure(that shitty season 5 finale left a bad taste in me and many other fans mouths) but at the very least it didn't treat kids like complete morons like TTG frequently did.

Haven't seen the movie myself, but given that even people who were extremely harsh towards TTG like Mr Enter liked it, I suppose I should get around to seeing it at some point(And hopefully we'll get a proper season 6 for Teen Titans, as that was promised if the TTG movie did well).
WittyUsername wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:09 pm
From what I’ve seen of TTG (I’m not an avid watcher by any means), it seems like it can range from being either surprisingly clever and meta (I guess this would mostly apply to the movie), lowest common denominator nonsense where characters yell about butts and waffles or a show that tries to justify its existence by taking shots at its critics.

Anyway, as many of us are willing to acknowledge, Dragon Ball itself isn’t exactly high brow entertainment, even by the standards of something geared towards kids. It’s no Avatar: The Last Airbender.
I did hear that later seasons improved on the humor and even praised the original show, but I never had the patience to find out, maybe i'll get around to seeing some of those later episodes eventually, but it's not a top priority for me right now.

I honestly never really cared that much for Avatar, I always liked DBZ better. Avatar is a good looking show but the characters just never really grabbed me(nor did Korra).

The ratings of TV in GENERAL have been slipping but Teen Titans Go is going strong with 800k when even NICK struggles to pull 500k. And Test Screening, maligned as it is, does have some succeses. Power Rangers for example was HATED HATED HATED by the executives in and out of Fox who thought it was too silly, too violent, and utterly awful. It was so hated an Ad Sales flopped. Affiliates refused to carry it. The show was very nearly killed at several points. But Margaret Loesch persevered because she saw that kids loved it during the Test Screening, especially girls who loved the action and kickass girls on Power Rangers.

The result was a phenomenon. The ratings for it where like MASH but for kids.

I KNOW I will probably get an earful from you and probably Kunzait because I am defending utter trash like Power Rangers. But I am not defending that. I am defending children and their tastes. Children arent stupid. They just have a different way of seeing the world than adults do. They love to have fun and play and stuff like Power Rangers allows them to imagine themselves as heroes and save the day. My niece for example watched a lot of Power Rangers because she loved "The T Rex" and Giant robots. (My brother saw her interested in the Original Gundam...but that's A BIT TOO MUCH)

Dont get me wrong. I HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE TEEN TITANS GO. Its utterly hateful stuff. But kids like it. And they arent stupid. They just have a different way of seeing things.
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Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Planetnamek » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:16 pm

ABED wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:46 pm
They aren't attacking fans of the old show. They are just ribbing obnoxious fans who can't let go of the old series and take superhero stuff WAY too seriously. The movie is basically PG Deadpool. If I'm being honest, I like when shows take dig at fans.
Thundercats was never a comedy to begin with, so trying to turn it into a joke backfired horribly with fans of the original series(and those of the 2011 reboot like myself) and didn't attract any new fans.
No, it was a 30 minute toy commercial. And who cares if the original wasn't a comedy? The reason to do a new version is to do it differently, not just the same old same old. Humor doesn't trivialize these stories. To keep this about DB, by pointing to the absurdity of the over the top aspects it allows me to buy into these worlds, moreso than if they were to take this all SUPER seriously. Zack Snyder, I'm looking at you.
No they aren't just going after the fans attacking them, they were going after everyone that liked the original show period.

Mr Enter did a great review that perfectly summed up the problems with that attitude of the show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UcPQUBFLw4

He also talked about Thundercats Roar and perfectly argued why it does not work and is insulting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8CET4z9RQs

Yeah of course it was a commercial as were most shows in the 80s, but still trying to use those characters in a new show that's basically Thundercats in name only in a pathetic attempt to emulate TTG's success just came off as desperate and sad to a lot of people including myself, and the pathetically low ratings and mostly bad reviews cemented what an awful idea it was to try and turn the characters into complete jokes, it's not that i'm against humor in animated shows period, it's that i'm against turning them into a complete farce, it's the same reason why so many people hated Superman 3-because it made the character into a complete and utter joke and had none of the pathos of the previous two films, instead turning the character into a cartoon of himself to the point where it felt more like a Zucker film then a proper sequel(and the same thing almost happened to Jaws 3, which was going to be made by the same people that did Animal House, but enough people hated the idea of turning the series into a complete parody that it never got off the ground)

The 2011 version already was different enough from the original, we didn't need a shitty brain-rotting joke of a show that had ZERO resemblance to either version and might as well have been an original IP(and for all we know was until someone remembered they hadn't used Thundercats for anything in a while and decided to dig them up in a desperate attempt to make the characters "relevant" again)

Personally I really like Snyder's films and i'm fine with him taking them seriously, NOT every single film based on a comic-book has to try and emulate the Marvel formula of having characters constantly making jokes all the time, not that i'm against that sort of thing, i'm not, It just annoys me when people oppose the idea of ANY comic-book film trying to do something different from the MCU, that's partially when I enjoy the DCEU films so much because they are so different, and I couldn't be happier that his version of Justice League is finally happening. I had no trouble whatsoever buying into the worlds in Snyder's films personally.

I like the humor in DBZ and I feel it always fits quite well and it never overtakes the story. But I can easily imagine the same knuckleheads that made TTG trying to make their own version of DB and utterly mutilating the characters far worse then any dub ever could. I never claimed that humor trivialized those characters or anything like that, the 2011 series certainly wasn't without it's funny moments, the jokes were bad in Roar but it was more the mutilating of the characters beyond recognition that I really had a problem with in that show.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:22 pm

I was ignored... lol...

If it does make you happy Thundercats Roar ratings are in the toilet.
AnimeMaakuo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 am
Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Planetnamek » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:23 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:05 pm
Planetnamek wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:28 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:24 pm


I’m not really a huge fan but it’s highly successful ratings would indicate it is what kids want?

The movie (which I haven’t seen and am not inclined to) also did well critically .


I dunno I feel like the only people who hate Teen Titans Go are people who were overly attached to the old series. And the old series still exist. 65 episodes and a tv movie.
The ratings have been slipping for quite some time now though, and there's no guarantee it was succesful because of it's obnoxious humor(most of which revolves around butts and bodily fluids) but rather in spite of it, and for all we know a proper follow-up to the original Teen Titans could've done every bit as well in terms of ratings, but execs ran TTG into the ground by doing constant marathons, it wasn't uncommon for 75% or more of CN's schedule to be NOTHING but reruns of TTG, even fans of the show quickly got sick of its overexposure which led to declining ratings, and of course brainless execs thought since TTG turned a previously somewhat thoughtful animated-series into lowest common denominator garbage, they figured doing the same thing to Thundercats would also equal succesful ratings, thankfully they were proven wrong on that front. If I had to guess why one show succeeded where the other failed, it's probably because the original Titans occasionally had more comedic episodes, so TTG was a somewhat logical extension of that(and I must stress that I didn't set out to hate the show from day 1, I was initially actually somewhat interested in TTG and even defended it against others who were decrying it before it came out, but once I actually saw it with my own eyes, I felt incredibly stupid for ever believing in it and for sticking up for it) but Thundercats was never a comedy to begin with, so trying to turn it into a joke backfired horribly with fans of the original series(and those of the 2011 reboot like myself) and didn't attract any new fans.

Also the whole "the old series exists" argument does not automatically make TTG a good show by comparison, and it's an argument that frankly does not hold a lot of water when TTG itself dedicates multiple episodes to attacking fans of the original show(I.E. Let's Get Serious, Return of Slade, The Fourth Wall) which makes it creators come off as downright unprofessional assholes, i mean seriously, i've NEVER seen another reboot show, remake or spin-off where the creators dedicated multiple episodes to outright attacking fans of the original(maybe Thundercats Roar did, but I didn't have the patience or sanity to stomach more then one episode of that rancid sewage to find out :sick: ) that's just beyond the pale, and how the hell are those episodes supposed to appeal to TTG's target demographic who have likely never seen the original show? They certainly aren't going to understand the repeated attacks on fans of the original and will confuse them more then entertain them.

Oh trust me there's PLENTY of people that hate TTG with a passion who never saw a single episode of the original show, you don't need to be familiar with the original to know what a total shitfest TTG is.

Merely criticizing TTG does not mean one is overly attached to the original series, it has it's flaws for sure(that shitty season 5 finale left a bad taste in me and many other fans mouths) but at the very least it didn't treat kids like complete morons like TTG frequently did.

Haven't seen the movie myself, but given that even people who were extremely harsh towards TTG like Mr Enter liked it, I suppose I should get around to seeing it at some point(And hopefully we'll get a proper season 6 for Teen Titans, as that was promised if the TTG movie did well).
WittyUsername wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:09 pm
From what I’ve seen of TTG (I’m not an avid watcher by any means), it seems like it can range from being either surprisingly clever and meta (I guess this would mostly apply to the movie), lowest common denominator nonsense where characters yell about butts and waffles or a show that tries to justify its existence by taking shots at its critics.

Anyway, as many of us are willing to acknowledge, Dragon Ball itself isn’t exactly high brow entertainment, even by the standards of something geared towards kids. It’s no Avatar: The Last Airbender.
I did hear that later seasons improved on the humor and even praised the original show, but I never had the patience to find out, maybe i'll get around to seeing some of those later episodes eventually, but it's not a top priority for me right now.

I honestly never really cared that much for Avatar, I always liked DBZ better. Avatar is a good looking show but the characters just never really grabbed me(nor did Korra).

The ratings of TV in GENERAL have been slipping but Teen Titans Go is going strong with 800k when even NICK struggles to pull 500k. And Test Screening, maligned as it is, does have some succeses. Power Rangers for example was HATED HATED HATED by the executives in and out of Fox who thought it was too silly, too violent, and utterly awful. It was so hated an Ad Sales flopped. Affiliates refused to carry it. The show was very nearly killed at several points. But Margaret Loesch persevered because she saw that kids loved it during the Test Screening, especially girls who loved the action and kickass girls on Power Rangers.

The result was a phenomenon. The ratings for it where like MASH but for kids.

I KNOW I will probably get an earful from you and probably Kunzait because I am defending utter trash like Power Rangers. But I am not defending that. I am defending children and their tastes. Children arent stupid. They just have a different way of seeing the world than adults do. They love to have fun and play and stuff like Power Rangers allows them to imagine themselves as heroes and save the day. My niece for example watched a lot of Power Rangers because she loved "The T Rex" and Giant robots. (My brother saw her interested in the Original Gundam...but that's A BIT TOO MUCH)

Dont get me wrong. I HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE TEEN TITANS GO. Its utterly hateful stuff. But kids like it. And they arent stupid. They just have a different way of seeing things.
Actually i'm kind of starting to come around on Power Rangers, back in the day I resented it for being partially responsible for causing the cancellation of a bunch of great ABC shows like SatAM, but nowadays I recognize that wasn't the fault of Power Rangers, but rather the new president of ABC who didn't want to keep anything the old guy had, and that meant Sonic had to go(plus Disney's purchase of ABC also had something to do with it) but after watching Linkara's(BTW I strongly disagree with the users on this site that say he is "annoying") History of Power Rangers series i'm really starting to appreciate the series more, I won't say it's high art, but it's a damn sight better then TTG and it's rip-offs.

From what i've read of Kunzie's posts, he's not anti-kids stuff so much as he is against adults consuming nothing BUT kids stuff, and I can agree on that partially, as while I enjoy watching kids shows every now and then, I can't imagine consuming nothing but that sort of thing day in and day out.

I don't think all test audiences are bad, but more often the not execs will manipulate them to get the results they want(David Fincher famously decried test audiences after a screening for Alien 3 in Southern Cali, as FOX was eager to subvert what Fincher wanted to do and used the reception from the audience as an excuse). Hell some movies like Crow Salvation actually got their theatrical release cancelled purely because of test audience reaction(which i'm now suspecting was manipulated)
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:22 pm
I was ignored... lol...

If it does make you happy Thundercats Roar ratings are in the toilet.
Sorry I wasn't ignoring you, I was just busy writing a really long post to respond to ABED before I saw yours and I wanted to make a separate post to address what you said. and yes that does make me extremely happy :D

I'm glad this trend of TTG rip-offs finally seems to be dying off, hopefully it will stay dead.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:28 pm

I see. I agree then. I think Kids Stuff is nice but one shouldnt dwell too much to the point of obsession.

I want to work on Kids TV so I try to be aware of what kids like.
AnimeMaakuo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 am
Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Scsigs » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:52 am

WittyUsername wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:09 pm
From what I’ve seen of TTG (I’m not an avid watcher by any means), it seems like it can range from being either surprisingly clever and meta (I guess this would mostly apply to the movie), lowest common denominator nonsense where characters yell about butts and waffles or a show that tries to justify its existence by taking shots at its critics.

Anyway, as many of us are willing to acknowledge, Dragon Ball itself isn’t exactly high brow entertainment, even by the standards of something geared towards kids. It’s no Avatar: The Last Airbender.
Not an avid watcher either, but I HAVE paid attention to it. What Abed said about it is exactly what I hate about it, although his statement about the show taking shots at obnoxious fans is incredibly misinformed. TTG took a vocal minority & made 4, count 'em, 4 episodes at least to make them the strawmen of every TTG critic & I hate when people do that. I've seen it countless times on the internet with people like Doug Walker, Edwins Generation, Onision, & other shitty people, & it's incredibly awful when a TV show, especially one aimed at kids, sinks to that kind of a low. Making fun of critics is fine when either the criticisms make no sense, it's a quick joke after the show's proven itself, or the show's actually GOOD, but TTG took it to a level I can't get behind. It wasn't necessarily a bad show at the start, but it wasn't what most people were expecting (that being either a Season 6, or even what was actually promised from promo talks), but it got sunk when they premiered those episodes. There are a LOT of legit criticisms people have thrown out the show & just ignoring them is bad.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Soppa Saia People » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:36 am

how about that dragon ball.

(5 years on the forum btw, yay, too bad i'm only active during years where the last two digits end in a odd number.)

anyway, on a art and animation aspect, i have to say i'm honestly not a huge fan of nakatsuru's promo art work after the 90s. it's not like actives bad or anything, but compared to his 90s art, which i think is pretty much flawless for the series, it certainly feels like a big downgrade. a lot of the times it looks pretty stiff and a bit to overdetailed. it's definitely not like, post budokai yamamuro levels, but i don't think it's very good...
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Skar » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:45 am

ABED wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:25 pm
My issue with just listening to customers and reading and interpreting data is that it can give a false idea of what audiences are willing to consume. It can tell you what they have watched but not necessarily what they will watch. It doesn't allow for many new ideas.

A big problem I have with this approach of just listening to audiences and giving them what they want beyond not allowing for new ideas, is audiences will binge on something until it becomes stale.
I agree but I didn't mean it will entirely rely on audience preferences. Sorry I didn't convey that correctly and just meant it could be one factor that leads to change. Considering how many movies and shows that were thought to be a proven success have flopped, only relying on what they think the audience wants isn't an effective approach. There are always going to be studios experimenting with new ideas. Some of the most successful titles were innovative at the time and weren't following a proven trend. Before streaming, there were still many shows canceled after only a season or two. I'm sure some didn't get the chance they deserve but I've heard many were derivative and trying to copy a more popular series. We're still in the early stages so I don't think we'll lose everything that was good about the traditional TV format.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:13 am

Planetnamek wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:16 pm
ABED wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:46 pm
They aren't attacking fans of the old show. They are just ribbing obnoxious fans who can't let go of the old series and take superhero stuff WAY too seriously. The movie is basically PG Deadpool. If I'm being honest, I like when shows take dig at fans.
Thundercats was never a comedy to begin with, so trying to turn it into a joke backfired horribly with fans of the original series(and those of the 2011 reboot like myself) and didn't attract any new fans.
No, it was a 30 minute toy commercial. And who cares if the original wasn't a comedy? The reason to do a new version is to do it differently, not just the same old same old. Humor doesn't trivialize these stories. To keep this about DB, by pointing to the absurdity of the over the top aspects it allows me to buy into these worlds, moreso than if they were to take this all SUPER seriously. Zack Snyder, I'm looking at you.
No they aren't just going after the fans attacking them, they were going after everyone that liked the original show period.

Mr Enter did a great review that perfectly summed up the problems with that attitude of the show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UcPQUBFLw4

He also talked about Thundercats Roar and perfectly argued why it does not work and is insulting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8CET4z9RQs

Yeah of course it was a commercial as were most shows in the 80s, but still trying to use those characters in a new show that's basically Thundercats in name only in a pathetic attempt to emulate TTG's success just came off as desperate and sad to a lot of people including myself, and the pathetically low ratings and mostly bad reviews cemented what an awful idea it was to try and turn the characters into complete jokes, it's not that i'm against humor in animated shows period, it's that i'm against turning them into a complete farce, it's the same reason why so many people hated Superman 3-because it made the character into a complete and utter joke and had none of the pathos of the previous two films, instead turning the character into a cartoon of himself to the point where it felt more like a Zucker film then a proper sequel(and the same thing almost happened to Jaws 3, which was going to be made by the same people that did Animal House, but enough people hated the idea of turning the series into a complete parody that it never got off the ground)

The 2011 version already was different enough from the original, we didn't need a shitty brain-rotting joke of a show that had ZERO resemblance to either version and might as well have been an original IP(and for all we know was until someone remembered they hadn't used Thundercats for anything in a while and decided to dig them up in a desperate attempt to make the characters "relevant" again)

Personally I really like Snyder's films and i'm fine with him taking them seriously, NOT every single film based on a comic-book has to try and emulate the Marvel formula of having characters constantly making jokes all the time, not that i'm against that sort of thing, i'm not, It just annoys me when people oppose the idea of ANY comic-book film trying to do something different from the MCU, that's partially when I enjoy the DCEU films so much because they are so different, and I couldn't be happier that his version of Justice League is finally happening. I had no trouble whatsoever buying into the worlds in Snyder's films personally.

I like the humor in DBZ and I feel it always fits quite well and it never overtakes the story. But I can easily imagine the same knuckleheads that made TTG trying to make their own version of DB and utterly mutilating the characters far worse then any dub ever could. I never claimed that humor trivialized those characters or anything like that, the 2011 series certainly wasn't without it's funny moments, the jokes were bad in Roar but it was more the mutilating of the characters beyond recognition that I really had a problem with in that show.
Sorry, but I refuse to watch those youtuber videos on principle. They're obnoxious and don't prove anything beyond providing an inarticulate response. Many of them lack deep knowledge of film and TV beyond films that played at their local multiplex.

I don't ask that comic book movies emulate Marvel, just don't be tone deaf or monotonous.

And Superman III's issue was that it was a Richard Prior film, not a Superman film. Jaws 3 was always gonna suck because there's no more story to tell after the first one.

The humor doesn't overtake the story in DB? It started off as a gag manga and it still shows it roots throughout.

These goofy shows you dislike didn't mutilate those characters. It was just a different take. Also, you are in your 30s and while you can feel free to enjoy cartoons, you should accept that you aren't the target audience. It's not made for you.
Last edited by ABED on Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Soppa Saia People » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:35 am

i'm begging you, someone, anyone, snip some of these quotes, it makes everything really hard to read and i can barely load this page on my kindle because of it.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Planetnamek » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:51 am

ABED wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:13 am
Planetnamek wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:16 pm
ABED wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:46 pm
They aren't attacking fans of the old show. They are just ribbing obnoxious fans who can't let go of the old series and take superhero stuff WAY too seriously. The movie is basically PG Deadpool. If I'm being honest, I like when shows take dig at fans.

No, it was a 30 minute toy commercial. And who cares if the original wasn't a comedy? The reason to do a new version is to do it differently, not just the same old same old. Humor doesn't trivialize these stories. To keep this about DB, by pointing to the absurdity of the over the top aspects it allows me to buy into these worlds, moreso than if they were to take this all SUPER seriously. Zack Snyder, I'm looking at you.
No they aren't just going after the fans attacking them, they were going after everyone that liked the original show period.

Mr Enter did a great review that perfectly summed up the problems with that attitude of the show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UcPQUBFLw4

He also talked about Thundercats Roar and perfectly argued why it does not work and is insulting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8CET4z9RQs

Yeah of course it was a commercial as were most shows in the 80s, but still trying to use those characters in a new show that's basically Thundercats in name only in a pathetic attempt to emulate TTG's success just came off as desperate and sad to a lot of people including myself, and the pathetically low ratings and mostly bad reviews cemented what an awful idea it was to try and turn the characters into complete jokes, it's not that i'm against humor in animated shows period, it's that i'm against turning them into a complete farce, it's the same reason why so many people hated Superman 3-because it made the character into a complete and utter joke and had none of the pathos of the previous two films, instead turning the character into a cartoon of himself to the point where it felt more like a Zucker film then a proper sequel(and the same thing almost happened to Jaws 3, which was going to be made by the same people that did Animal House, but enough people hated the idea of turning the series into a complete parody that it never got off the ground)

The 2011 version already was different enough from the original, we didn't need a shitty brain-rotting joke of a show that had ZERO resemblance to either version and might as well have been an original IP(and for all we know was until someone remembered they hadn't used Thundercats for anything in a while and decided to dig them up in a desperate attempt to make the characters "relevant" again)

Personally I really like Snyder's films and i'm fine with him taking them seriously, NOT every single film based on a comic-book has to try and emulate the Marvel formula of having characters constantly making jokes all the time, not that i'm against that sort of thing, i'm not, It just annoys me when people oppose the idea of ANY comic-book film trying to do something different from the MCU, that's partially when I enjoy the DCEU films so much because they are so different, and I couldn't be happier that his version of Justice League is finally happening. I had no trouble whatsoever buying into the worlds in Snyder's films personally.

I like the humor in DBZ and I feel it always fits quite well and it never overtakes the story. But I can easily imagine the same knuckleheads that made TTG trying to make their own version of DB and utterly mutilating the characters far worse then any dub ever could. I never claimed that humor trivialized those characters or anything like that, the 2011 series certainly wasn't without it's funny moments, the jokes were bad in Roar but it was more the mutilating of the characters beyond recognition that I really had a problem with in that show.
Sorry, but I refuse to watch those youtuber videos on principle. They're obnoxious and don't prove anything beyond providing an inarticulate response. Many of them lack deep knowledge of film and TV beyond films that played at their local multiplex.

I don't ask that comic book movies emulate Marvel, just don't be tone deaf or monotonous.

And Superman III's issue was that it was a Richard Prior film, not a Superman film. Jaws 3 was always gonna suck because there's no more story to tell after the first one.

The humor doesn't overtake the story in DB? It started off as a gag manga and it still shows it roots throughout.

These goofy shows you dislike didn't mutilate those characters. It was just a different take. Also, you are in your 30s and while you can feel free to enjoy cartoons, you should accept that you aren't the target audience. It's not made for you.
Well I didn't find Snyder's films tone deaf or monotonous in the least. DB anime still takes itself pretty seriously for the most part and while it may have started as a gag manga, it's never played as full-on comedy in the anime version.

That whole "not in the target" audience excuse does NOT automatically make those shows above criticism, besides clearly Thundercats Roar's "target audience" didn't care much for the show either judging by how abysmally low the ratings were, and why would they? Most of them likely have no clue who any of those characters are, so really why was it necessary for CN to try and dig up their corpses and desecrate them? The show might've as well have been an original IP for how much it had in common with the previous two series, there's doing a "different take" and then there's just straight up only using a property for it's name recognition in a pathetically transparent attempt to draw attention.

Refusing to watch Youtube videos on principle makes it difficult for me to take your opinions on this matter seriously, besides Mr Enter definitely has a lot of knowledge on animation, he definitely knows WAY more then just what played on TV or at the theater.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:04 am

To be clear the old Thundercats cartoon was garbage too. So a crappy comedic reboot is hardly an insult.


And the majority of Youtube reviewers are garbage. Including Mr.Enter

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:03 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:35 am
i'm begging you, someone, anyone, snip some of these quotes, it makes everything really hard to read and i can barely load this page on my kindle because of it.
This comment made me laugh. Poor Super Saiya People.

Anyway, good advice.
AnimeMaakuo wrote:
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Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
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19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Planetnamek » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:45 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:04 am
To be clear the old Thundercats cartoon was garbage too. So a crappy comedic reboot is hardly an insult.


And the majority of Youtube reviewers are garbage. Including Mr.Enter
That's just your opinion, not an indisputable fact, I don't think most of them are "Garbage" in the least, definitely not Mr Enter IMO.

Original wasn't great and I certainly wasn't the biggest fan of it, but it looks like a goddamn masterpiece next to Roar, and it is an insult to the 2011 series which was far better then it had any right to be.
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:03 pm
Soppa Saia People wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:35 am
i'm begging you, someone, anyone, snip some of these quotes, it makes everything really hard to read and i can barely load this page on my kindle because of it.
This comment made me laugh. Poor Super Saiya People.

Anyway, good advice.
I wasn't even aware you could use Kindle for other websites besides Amazon.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:19 pm

Mysterious Mr Enter isn’t really as insightful as he seems to think he is. His video on Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is pretty bad, and the way he angrily chose to defend that video didn’t exactly paint him in a positive light. Still, I wouldn’t agree with the idea that YouTube reviewers in general are awful. To try and bring this back to Dragon Ball, there are at least a couple of reviewers for the franchise who know what they’re talking about.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Gligarman » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:59 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:19 pm
Mysterious Mr Enter isn’t really as insightful as he seems to think he is. His video on Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is pretty bad, and the way he angrily chose to defend that video didn’t exactly paint him in a positive light. Still, I wouldn’t agree with the idea that YouTube reviewers in general are awful. To try and bring this back to Dragon Ball, there are at least a couple of reviewers for the franchise who know what they’re talking about.
No joke, please let me know which of these critics actually did a good DB review, because with few exceptions almost every DB related video I’ve seen on Youtube has made me cringe like crazy. Mainly because it’s usually folks who only saw DBZ, only watched it dubbed, and are completely unfamiliar with the manga.

What can I say? I’m a DB snob. Lol

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Skar » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:07 pm

A channel called Dikpix made a parody of video essays. It was an in-depth analysis of the colors used in Chicken Run.
https://youtu.be/WnSQwgw1gnI

I don't really care for these types of videos but I don't have anything against them either. I wouldn't say they're all bad and some have thought and effort put into them than others. They're just fans giving their opinions in more detail than what most people would care to go into which is what a lot of us do on here, blogs, or social media :P.

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