Unpopular DB opinions

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WittyUsername
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:52 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:46 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:07 pm
There’s an inherent absurdity in pretty much every fictional concept.
Not exactly sure where you're going with this.
I’m saying that the superhero genre is hardly an outlier when it comes to how absurd fiction can be. The works of people like Tolkien are absurd as well when you stop to think about it.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:18 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:03 pm
Planetnamek wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:49 am
Well I do understand it so there, something can be inherently goofy but still taken seriously, nothing wrong with that.
Yes, by acknowledging the inherent absurdity of it. In Batman Begins, Ra's al Ghul says "You took my advice about theatricality a tad literally."

The Nolan films also play the concept of a man dressing up as a bat to fight crime serious. Of course the films have jokes and what not but its never really a joke that a rich guy is getting his childhood trauma out with his fursona.

That’s the big difference to something like Dragon Ball where the comedy is a huge part of the story. Maybe more so in the first three arcs and the final arc but it’s still apparent that its a story written by a guy with a sense of humor and wasn’t out to make some grand epic

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:25 pm

The trouble with fiction is, how do you distinguish from reality when they're both equally ridiculous? Poe's Law.

I enjoy sprinklings of comedy in a lot of things so long as it isn't shoehorned in, and some genres and concepts are naturally predisposed for more comedic tones. Horror and comedy have an interesting dichotomy in that the two genres, in almost all their variant forms, are fundamentally about victimhood -- the only difference is that one is played for scares and the other for laughs. Horror is a delicate balancing act to not slip too much into farce that comedy embraces.

Superheroes hinge on our willing suspension of disbelief that some dudes play dress up and fight crime effectively, and occasionally meet superpowerful aliens that don't affect the world nearly as much as they realistically should. Isn't it weird that, say, Jim Gordon at some point had no choice but to sit down and come to terms with believing in aliens, gods, demons, etc. because they all factually exist in the DCU? A wink and a nod can go a long way to help with that inherent absurdity. Even many attempts to write "grounded in reality" superheroes like Kick-Ass and Super inevitably dip into the classic silly tropes and conventions in order to keep things interesting. The first and best "realistic" superhero was Spider-Man and we all know his world is anything but realistic, but it's his character and struggles we relate to. The Real Life Superhero subculture exists, but it illustrates that while superheroes are plausible, they can't seriously work in reality.

However, some writers go too far with it. While I personally think the DCEU has mostly been an abject failure with the exception of a few good flukes, I think Joss Whedon being brought into finish Justice League did not help at all. All he did was basically fill the movie with his trademark excessive quippy dialogue. His sense of direction really did not mesh well with Synder's, which, while I may not usually like much, was at least consistent. That's an example of forcing levity where it's unneeded which instead acts as a detriment to the film. While Justice League was always going to be lighter, the "Zack Snyder cut" is looking to at least make it a bit less jarringly so after the bleakness of Man of Steel and BvS.
Last edited by LoganForkHands73 on Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ABED
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:43 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:52 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:46 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:07 pm
There’s an inherent absurdity in pretty much every fictional concept.
Not exactly sure where you're going with this.
I’m saying that the superhero genre is hardly an outlier when it comes to how absurd fiction can be. The works of people like Tolkien are absurd as well when you stop to think about it.
Of course, and Middle Earth has plenty of humor and whimsy.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Goten_jr » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:06 pm

Ultimate Tenkaichi is best Looking DB Game ever
Dokkan is my fav DB game

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jamiljamtheman
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jamiljamtheman » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:56 pm

I don’t think I want a weekly series again. Every time I watch a tournament of power clip and start to get invested in what’s going on, I’m immediately taken out of the experience by some annoying clip of the Zenos or at the very least some characters commenting on the action. I see these as Toei’s way to fill the episodes runtime on a budget and still deliver good results (the ToP has a lot of good stuff), and so I’d rather have less frequent, but tighter and more engaging content like movies.

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Matches Malone
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:10 am

jamiljamtheman wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:56 pm
I don’t think I want a weekly series again.
Having a continuous anime has little to no benefits for DB or any story at this point. I think the best option moving forward is for DB to become a seasonal anime that allows the production staff and writers the time they need to put out a respectable product that lives up to today's standards. The TOP and Super in general were a complete joke, both in comparison to what came before it and compared to today's anime.

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ABED
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:52 am

Even season is an awful idea. I still don't understand why a sizable portion of people don't want their stories to end. Every story if it goes long enough will go stale. I doesn't matter how much time to produce or the quality of the writer. Every story runs its course. Every story? ::in my best Gary Oldman impression:: EVERRRRRYYYYYONNNNEEEEEE!!!
I see these as Toei’s way to fill the episodes runtime
That's like half of all Dragon Ball filler ever.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Matches Malone
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:22 am

ABED wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:52 am
Even season is an awful idea. I still don't understand why a sizable portion of people don't want their stories to end.
I'm not talking about DB exclusively, but anime in general. I think the idea of having hundreds of episodes in a row year after year hurts both the people working on them and the show itself. In terms of DB ending, with the exception of the BOG movie, it should've remained as a complete product following GT's ending.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jamiljamtheman » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:42 am

ABED wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:52 am
I see these as Toei’s way to fill the episodes runtime
That's like half of all Dragon Ball filler ever.
True, and that’s another thing I’m not huge about. It’s more noticeable in DBZ and, I hear, One Piece, because that’s strictly an adaptation of a manga, but it seems Toei’s solution to needing time for more manga material is/was Usually to stretch and pad out the adaptation itself, like the Frieza battle. Though I haven’t watched most of DBZ or even most of Super, I guess I like that Supers approach to waiting for Toriyama was to have dedicated mini filler arcs. But it didn’t change the fact that for budget reasons, episodes like the ToP episodes still had to be artificially padded with things like Zeno cutaways.

This makes me very interested to watch the first two Super arcs, and then rewatch the BoG and RoF movies, and compare the pacing.

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Matches Malone
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:09 am

jamiljamtheman wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:42 am
This makes me very interested to watch the first two Super arcs, and then rewatch the BoG and RoF movies, and compare the pacing.
BOG is a 105 minute movie that's stretched out to 14 episodes, while RF is an 85 minute movie stretched out to 12 episodes. On top of the massive pacing issues, the production quality is the lowest DB has ever been.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:20 pm

The cutaways to reactions is not filler in the strictest sense. It's a good idea to have reactions to help give context to what's going on.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by jamiljamtheman » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:23 am

ABED wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:20 pm
The cutaways to reactions is not filler in the strictest sense. It's a good idea to have reactions to help give context to what's going on.
That’s true. Though I think they get overused in some episodes. That or I find the Zenos annoying in excess... and I don’t find them giving any context. But I doubt that’s an unpopular opinion :D .

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by UI Peter » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:53 am

There should be no more tournament arcs in the series after the ToP. At this point they've become stale, plotless, pointless excuses to have a bunch of one-off flat characters to fight the main cast.

From a strictly storytelling standpoint, the franchise is rarely better than average.

Freeza being brought back to life is actually a good thing for the series going forward.

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Matches Malone
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:22 am

ABED wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:20 pm
The cutaways to reactions is not filler in the strictest sense. It's a good idea to have reactions to help give context to what's going on.
When they're cutting to a reaction every second it just becomes time wasting. I think there were 3-4 cutaways during Vegeta powering up to evolution alone, with each character saying Vegeta was getting stronger, something we could clearly see.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:15 am

Goten_jr wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:06 pm
Ultimate Tenkaichi is best Looking DB Game ever
I agree with this one. It looks really good.
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Skar » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:26 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:22 am
When they're cutting to a reaction every second it just becomes time wasting. I think there were 3-4 cutaways during Vegeta powering up to evolution alone, with each character saying Vegeta was getting stronger, something we could clearly see.
There was a fan recut of the ToP that brought it down to 12 episodes and the pacing is much better imo. I can't post the link here but I think it's okay to post the description. I'm hoping one day we get a Kai version of DBS that sticks closer to Toriyama's outline :).

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Matches Malone
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:51 am

Skar wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:26 am
I'm hoping one day we get a Kai version of DBS that sticks closer to Toriyama's outline :).
A Kai version wouldn't remake anything, it'd just cut things down, which wouldn't be a bad thing with Super. By just removing the retellings and in-between arc episodes, that brings things down to 90 episodes. A Kai version could easily bring that number down in half.

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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by Goten_jr » Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:26 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:15 am
Goten_jr wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:06 pm
Ultimate Tenkaichi is best Looking DB Game ever
I agree with this one. It looks really good.
If I would never have played a DB Game and you would show me all the DB the Games I think then I would have been looking forward to UT the most but unfortunately the Gameplay is really repetitive

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ABED
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Re: Unpopular DB opinions

Post by ABED » Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:09 am

I remember someone a while back when Kai first started doing an even shorter cut where they tried to get the pacing even more in line with the manga and in the end, it basically cut any sort of beat where "nothing happened". Problem is there's no sense of pacing, it all feels so rushed so no, I have ZERO interest in watching a 12 episode TOP. Generally speaking I'm fine with cutting stuff out to make a story shorter but that is fine to a point. Past a certain point, nothing breathes and it all feels rushed.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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