Opinions and rules behind name spellings

[VegettoEX]

OK, so I got one character right, except in the wrong context. Just call me "Jeff".

[TripleRach]

The problem I've always had with that is that in English, "God-with-a-capital-G" has always had a pretty strong connection to the Christian/Jewish etc god. Kami is a "god" (in DragonBall terms at least), he is the only "god" of Earth, but he is not the Christian god, "God". If it's being used as a title, should it be capitalised?

It depends on the context. If you're talking about the role in general, like "Earth has a god, but Venus doesn't," then it makes more sense to use lowercase. But if you're referring to a specific person who has the role, like "Piccolo went to visit God," then it becomes a proper noun and you have to capitalize it.

For comparison, you might say "That guy is running for president," less specifically, but "Mr. President, how many scoops of ice cream would you like?" more specifically.

[Puto]

Sorry, I was unclear. I mean does anyone here say their names in Japanese, or does everyone say "eighteen" etc in their head or out loud?

Hopefully not. It's pretty obvious their 'names' are just numbers, even more so in the manga where they're written numerically.

[LiamKav]

Makes sense. I suppose it's just the baggage that comes with capital-G God. "Mr President" doesn't quite bring, say, Barack Obama to mind as much as God brings Yahweh to mind. (From a western English speaking perspective, at least.)

Actually, when I was talking about people saying "Dende" rather than "God", I meant fandom, rather than in-universe characters. Although I suppose Dende is the only character with a title who gets a name seperate from that title.

Updated list (Fs = FUNi subs, Fd = FUNi dubbed, V=Viz):

Goku (F,V), Gokuh (Spacesuit during Namek-era), Gokou (most 90s games, I believe)
Yamcha (Fd, V), Yamucha (Fs), Zedaki (Harmony Gold)
Tenshinhan (V, Fs), Tien Shinhan (Fd)
Krillin (Fd), Kuririn (Fs, V, outfit worn during the 23rd Tenkaichi-Budokai), Kulilin (on spacesuit on Namek-era title pages)
Bardock (F, V), Burdock (original FUNi subtitles)
Bulma (F, V, several of her outfits)
Piccolo (all sane people), Big Green (insane UK dub)
Korin (Fd), Karin (V, Fs), Whiskers the Wonder Cat (Harmony Gold)
Freeza (V, Fs), Frieza (Fd)

Names with only one "official" spelling:

Gohan
Goten
"Son" part of "Son Gohan" etc.
Bulma
Trunks
Cell
Vegeta
Raditz
Nappa

[Puto]

Goku (F,V), Gokou (most 90s games, I believe)

His spacesuit says Gokuh, a title page says Gokuh, and I've seen him wear something saying Gokuu too at some point. And the GT Special has Gokū Jr. wearing a short saying "GOKU."

[LiamKav]

Yeah, I've seen Gokuu too, but I can't for the life of me remember where. Trading card, maybe?

And the GT Special has Gokū Jr. wearing a short saying "GOKU."

Do you mean that it says "Gokū", but in capital letters, or just that it says "Goku" in capitals? I don't think that counts as a different official spelling so much as shouting his name.

[ricecake]

Didn't one of the dubs call Goku "Zero"? Or was that just one of the Spanish dubs?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Didn't one of the dubs call Goku "Zero"?

That was the Harmony Gold dub.

[Pokewhiz7]

Viz uses "Yamcha" as well. The FUNimation subtitles use Yamucha, at least under Simmons. Can't remember in regards to Mandelin.

Mandelin uses Yamucha.

[Puto]

Yeah, I've seen Gokuu too, but I can't for the life of me remember where. Trading card, maybe?

And the GT Special has Gokū Jr. wearing a short saying "GOKU."

Do you mean that it says "Gokū", but in capital letters, or just that it says "Goku" in capitals? I don't think that counts as a different official spelling so much as shouting his name.

It says GOKU in capitals, no accents. Relevant because I think it's the only time that spelling is used on-screen.

[LiamKav]

Good point.

Are Toei likely to have "official" romanizations of the character's names? Perhaps that they've used on web page addresses, or do they seem to translate them differently each time?

Oooh, I've thought of another official source... FUNi's Dragon Box booklets! I've only got volumes 3, 5, and 6, but let's see (by the way, does anyone know who translated these?):

Okay, Oolong, Pu-erh (I've got a feeling there's going to be a few spellings for that cat), Karin, Freeza, Goku, Kami-sama (rather than God), Bulma, Yamucha, Kuririn. Tenshinhan, Chaozu, Dabura, Kibit.

One interesting thing to note is that the books act as if, for the characters with only titles, that there names are titles. For example, next to a picture of Kaio-sama, it says "Kaio. Kaio of the northern galaxy", which makes it seem like Kaio is his actual name, as well as his title. It doesn't say "North Kaio", although it does for the other 3 Kaios and the Grand Kaio.

[Pokewhiz7]

Oooh, I've thought of another official source... FUNi's Dragon Box booklets! I've only got volumes 3, 5, and 6, but let's see (by the way, does anyone know who translated these?):

As far as I'm aware, they were done by Steve Simmons.

[Zestanor]

Kibit.

This is basically a ten year old error that Steve Simmons didn't find worth fixing when the Dragon Boxes were released. It should be 'Kibito.' It comes from the word 'tsukibito,' which means attendant. Steve talked about this somewhere on this podcast.

[Ringworm128]

A bit of topic but this is probably the best place to post this.I spell/pronounce the names with a mix of the Funimation pronounciations and spellings, the Steve Simmons spellings and the orginal Japanese spellings and pronounciations.

For example I spell Jisu's name as Jheese but I pronounce it Jayce even though I'm sure it's meant to pronounced as Jees (like cheese).

l use the Funimation term "Ginyu Force" because it's easy to type and it's a pretty accurate name for the Ginyu Tokusentai I alo use King Kai instead of Kaio. I use "Captain Ginyu" instead of "Commander Ginyu" I also use the spelling and pronounciation "Bulma" for Buruma. I use the Funimation names for the evil dragons from GT.

For the attack names I pronounce and spell them how they originally were in Japanese.

I also like to spell Burter name "Baata" and Zarbons name "Zabon" but I usually stick to the Funimation spellings so there is no confusion.

I also like the unofficial spelling of Sauza "Thouza".

[LiamKav]

I've been thinking, and I have a bit of a problem with FUNi's inconsistent sub spellings. I absolutely 100% agree with not using the dub names in the sub, because the sub it supposed to be true to the original. I also don't mind that Viz and other companies use different spellings, because they are different companies.

But with the FUNi subs, that is a single product. And having the spelling change between different episodes just because they have different translators is unprofessional. If they have different ideas on how to translate names, they really should have gotten together and decided on a template before hand. One of them might not like the spelling, but they should go with what the company has decided. We would have to take the same approach with the Wiki. Everyone would have to agree on how a character's name is spelt, and use that even if the disagreed.

(I get this at work all the time. Different people translating software from German to English without any sort of template, and the result is that operations get called different things in different parts of the software depending on who did the translation. It's a mess.)

[TripleRach]

But with the FUNi subs, that is a single product. And having the spelling change between different episodes just because they have different translators is unprofessional. If they have different ideas on how to translate names, they really should have gotten together and decided on a template before hand. One of them might not like the spelling, but they should go with what the company has decided. We would have to take the same approach with the Wiki. Everyone would have to agree on how a character's name is spelt, and use that even if the disagreed.

There are only two translators for the subtitles, and they didn't exactly swap back and forth every few episodes. Mandelin did all of DB (minus a dozen episodes Simmons did before he came in), and Simmons did DB all of DBZ and GT. They definitely did communicate on most of the main character names (I think Simmons specifically said as much), but some other terminology did slip through the cracks. The most obvious examples I can think of are "Dragon Balls" vs "Dragonballs" and "Cyborg #8" vs "Artificial Human No. 17." I think a couple attack names were treated differently, too, but I can't remember any specifics.

While I can't stand inconsistency either, you make the issue sound a lot worse than it actually is.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Kami-sama

Should the honorific of "-sama" really be included, though, just because Viz used it? It's not really part of his title. Just "Kami" would be best, methinks.

Also, what about "Android" vs. "Artificial Human"?

[Pokewhiz7]

Also, what about "Android" vs. "Artificial Human"?

Keep in mind that I'm no expert, but as I understand it, "Android" is a better term to use, because "Jinzoningen" is incorrect, and he should have used "Kaizoningen," translated to "Cyborg." That's what I remember, though I could be wrong.
EDIT: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 73#p508473

[Piccolo Daimao]

Also, what about "Android" vs. "Artificial Human"?

Keep in mind that I'm no expert, but as I understand it, "Android" is a better term to use, because "Jinzoningen" is incorrect, and he should have used "Kaizoningen," translated to "Cyborg." That's what I remember, though I could be wrong.
EDIT: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 73#p508473

It can't really be "incorrect" if it's from the original, though? Both "Android" and "Jinzoningen" are technically correct, and both refer to actual androids and cyborgs that Dr. Gero created.

But yeah, I think we should use "Android". That's what it's translated into in most official media.

[Bussani]

Hm, I was going to talk a bit about the terms Jinzouningen, Androids, Kaizouningen, and Cyborgs, but clicking on Pokewhiz7's link covers everything. Android is a perfectly valid translation, in my opinion, and captures the fact that Gero doesn't really care enough to name his creations something different just to be technical.