Viz DBZ Manga Censorship: Round Two

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

Post Reply
User avatar
SaiyaJedi
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 2387
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:24 pm
Location: Osaka
Contact:

Viz DBZ Manga Censorship: Round Two

Post by SaiyaJedi » Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:08 pm

Hey, everyone~

What I'm about to say, here, has been bothering me for about a month, but up until now, I've just kept it to myself. I was going to write up an Editorial for Daizex, but Mike, having reached Fandom Nirvana, doesn't want to get the site involved. I'm warning you now that this is pretty long, but I feel like I have to say it.

As you may or may not know, in last month's issue of the American Shonen Jump (that is, February 2004 -- remember that every issue comes out a month ahead of time), censorship reappeared in DBZ for the first time since the end of the Saiyan arc. On page 235, #16's 00b3r-famous technique, "Hell's Flash," made its appearance. Or rather, it should have. Instead, what we got was this:
Image

Now, I don't claim to have any idea what they were thinking when they did this, but that's beside the point. The bottom line is, it makes no sense, because:
DBZ Viz Adaptation Facts wrote:1) They've used the word "hell" before, in a variety of contexts.
You don't have to get far into DBZ to see this; take, for example, the first chapter of DBZ volume 2, "A Warrior in Hell." Looking at the series up to this point, they haven't been shy at all about using it in either concrete or abstract terms, even though the comic has been officially "censored" since mid-2000.
(Note: please don't confuse this with the original DB; despite its own problems in the past, the Dragon Ball portion of the manga has been officially "uncensored" since early 2001, and no current edition of that series is edited for content.)

2) They've used worse language than this before.
Although there isn't really much swearing to begin with, Viz has used both "damn" and "bastard" where they felt it appropriate. I don't pretend to speak for any of you, but I'm pretty sure that most of you would consider "hell" to be far less offensive than either of those two words. So, even though they use "harsh" language infrequently, severity of language clearly shouldn't be a problem here.

3) There's plenty of other "bad" things they haven't censored.
Despite the (2000) censorship's prohibition on sexual innuendo, raised middle fingers, and frontal nudity, there are plenty of other "objectionable" things that Viz has let through untouched. Among them are images of death (including suicide, impalement, broken necks, decapitation, disintegration, rending in twain, and downright murder), the bodies of the dead, the death of God (Kami), beatings of children, torture (in the sense of making an incapacitated foe suffer, rather than killing them immediately), and more. And yet there's all of this fuss over a measly little word.
With all of that evidence, the idea that Viz would have any legitimate reason to censor "Hell's Flash" is absurd. While I suppose that it could just be a "momentary lapse of reason" (as Pink Floyd so eloquently put it) on the part of the company, I am inclined to think that this change marks the start of a much stricter censorship policy. I really can't think of any other legitimate cause that would make them do this. So... I'm worried. Very worried.

Now, to some of you out there, "Inferno Blast" in place of "Hell's Flash" no doubt seems like a relatively minor transgression. And, to tell you the truth, it really isn't that big of a deal. HOWEVER... consider this: If the word "hell" is now suddenly taboo, doesn't it stand to reason that other, similar things, will be changed in the future? I am of course referring to our dear friend, Mr. Satan. The name "Satan" in the English language is inextricably linked with "Hell" imagery, so logic dictates that if one goes, the other will probably follow. And that's just not acceptable. It's not just the betrayal of changing the name of a well-known (and popular) character, but the fact that he appears so often after he's introduced, that -- should his name be changed -- we will rarely, if ever, see another uncensored DBZ chapter, all the way to the end of the series. Plus, at the rate Shonen Jump is currently going, he's gonna show up in less than 6 months.

I know that complaining about it must seem kind of pathetic, but I've already done what I can and written to the magazine about my concerns. I've grown to dislike petitions since my previous exploits, because too many idiots get involved who either have no idea what the thing is about, or just want to be stupid. Either way, it grates on my nerves to much to attempt something like that again.

I don't know what to do, now... I might write in again in the next few days, but I suppose the most I can do at the moment is to suggest that those of you who actively read the US Shonen Jump magazine and DBZ Graphic Novels write in about it, as well (the Shonen Jump Letters Page e-mail address is: letters@shonenjump.com). The only thing about that is that you absolutely should NOT make it angry or obscene, because nothing gets a letter thrown out faster than colorful invective laced with death threats. If you do write to them, feel free to use the information I've presented here, but please don't be rude.

Anyway, I apologize if this seems rather pessimistic or otherwise uncharacteristic of me, but Viz's English version of the manga is something I've really enjoyed, despite its occasional missteps. It's about the only real part of English-language DB that I still genuinely care about. I don't want my enjoyment of it to be ruined by this nonsense. :?

So, that's my rant for now... anybody want to comment / offer suggestions / take my mind off of this?
Last edited by SaiyaJedi on Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Co-translator, Man-in-Japan, and Julian #1 at Kanzenshuu
最近、あんまし投稿してないねんけど、見てんで。いっつも見てる。

User avatar
Dayspring
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7753
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Post by Dayspring » Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:55 pm

Bad translation, maybe? The French version mistranslated it to "Flames of Hell!!" Not exactly like "Flash" is a bad word in French sooo...
Captain Christopher Pike wrote:The away team will consist of myself, Cadet Kirk, Mr. Sulu, and Ensign Olsen.
Freeza Heika wrote: for the land of the cool, and the home of the Appule
The Geeky Gentleman: For all your comics, movies, TV and other geeky needs.

User avatar
PsyLiam
I Live Here
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: Liverpool, UK
Contact:

Post by PsyLiam » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:24 pm

I'm curious about a couple of things. They started censoring both mangas in 2000, and then uncensored the original DB in 2001, so that all the current graphic novels on the shelves are the uncensored versions, right? Ie, Bulma naked in the first volume without the bubbles covering her up.

Is DBZ still censored? Do the Shonen Jump versions of DBZ volume 1 still have Kame Sen'nin saying "all I wanted is a nice big kiss" instead of "I just wanted to see if your breasts had grown"? (Or whatever it originally was).

And does the same censorship apply to both the graphic novels, and the stories published in Shonen Jump? Does the magazine have a "13+" marking on the front?

User avatar
Adamant
I Live Here
Posts: 3325
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:02 pm
Location: Viking Land

Post by Adamant » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:34 pm

Dayspring wrote:Bad translation, maybe? The French version mistranslated it to "Flames of Hell!!" Not exactly like "Flash" is a bad word in French sooo...
It was "Helvedesblitz" in danish, which can be translated as either "Hell Blitz" or.. yes.. "Hell Flash"

Of course, if someone was to literally translate the danish version and release it in english, the soccer moms would stop production extremely fast, due to the massive use of world like "hell", "damn", "shit", and even "fuck".

(another fun fact: Soccer moms in Finland stopped production of the manga due to the nudity)

User avatar
SaiyaJedi
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 2387
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:24 pm
Location: Osaka
Contact:

Post by SaiyaJedi » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:37 pm

Dayspring wrote:Bad translation, maybe? The French version mistranslated it to "Flames of Hell!!" Not exactly like "Flash" is a bad word in French sooo...
It's written in katakana, and reads "Heruzu Furasshu." I don't think it's a simple case of mistranslation. :(
Co-translator, Man-in-Japan, and Julian #1 at Kanzenshuu
最近、あんまし投稿してないねんけど、見てんで。いっつも見てる。

User avatar
Kodoshin
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:39 pm

Post by Kodoshin » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:38 pm

The manga featured in Shonen Jump magazine is regularly censored in the magazine format but not in the graphic novels.

I remember a similar issue coming up with one of the early Naruto chapters and when the graphic novel came out it wasn't censored.

User avatar
SaiyaJedi
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 2387
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:24 pm
Location: Osaka
Contact:

Post by SaiyaJedi » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:40 pm

Kodoshin wrote:The manga featured in Shonen Jump magazine is regularly censored in the magazine format but not in the graphic novels.
It's a thought, but keep in mind that DBZ is techically a "Rated A for All Ages" manga. Somehow, I don't see them changing it...
I remember a similar issue coming up with one of the early Naruto chapters and when the graphic novel came out it wasn't censored.
Can you remember what this was, specifically? I'm curious to see how that worked out.
Co-translator, Man-in-Japan, and Julian #1 at Kanzenshuu
最近、あんまし投稿してないねんけど、見てんで。いっつも見てる。

User avatar
Kodoshin
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:39 pm

Post by Kodoshin » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:49 pm

Apparently it had something to do with one of the uses of Naruto's "Ninja Centerfold" technique, apparently some extra "mist" (for covering) had been used in the Shonen Jump issue the technique was performed in initially (I know he used it in a few chapters not sure on the exact one this example refers to).

There was a mini-uproar about it, then when the graphic novel came out, it was no longer censored.

User avatar
SaiyaJedi
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 2387
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:24 pm
Location: Osaka
Contact:

Post by SaiyaJedi » Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:26 pm

PsyLiam wrote:I'm curious about a couple of things. They started censoring both mangas in 2000, and then uncensored the original DB in 2001, so that all the current graphic novels on the shelves are the uncensored versions, right? Ie, Bulma naked in the first volume without the bubbles covering her up.
Right. All of the "Shonen Jump" DB Graphic Novels are uncensored. Censorship only affected the first four of these volumes in their original edition, and even then, they were reprinted before SJ was announced.
Is DBZ still censored? Do the Shonen Jump versions of DBZ volume 1 still have Kame Sen'nin saying "all I wanted is a nice big kiss" instead of "I just wanted to see if your breasts had grown"? (Or whatever it originally was).
It's still censored. The only thing is, there was nothing to censor from the middle of volume 5 onward, so it quickly dissipated from the fans' consciousness.
And does the same censorship apply to both the graphic novels, and the stories published in Shonen Jump? Does the magazine have a "13+" marking on the front?
The magazine is "Rated T for Teen," but (apparently) it doesn't matter if the manga itself is rated "A." It's just that we didn't find this out until they censored something. :?

So... yeah. The March issue isn't censored, although I'm wondering if Mr. Satan's going to be getting the axe when he comes along around August-ish.
Co-translator, Man-in-Japan, and Julian #1 at Kanzenshuu
最近、あんまし投稿してないねんけど、見てんで。いっつも見てる。

User avatar
SaiyaJedi
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 2387
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:24 pm
Location: Osaka
Contact:

Post by SaiyaJedi » Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:28 pm

Kodoshin wrote:Apparently it had something to do with one of the uses of Naruto's "Ninja Centerfold" technique, apparently some extra "mist" (for covering) had been used in the Shonen Jump issue the technique was performed in initially (I know he used it in a few chapters not sure on the exact one this example refers to).

There was a mini-uproar about it, then when the graphic novel came out, it was no longer censored.
I see... although that doesn't really have any bearing on DBZ, since it was a word that was censored (the same word that was repeated like a mantra with every death threat from Tokagerou in that month's installment of Shaman King).

*sigh* :(
Co-translator, Man-in-Japan, and Julian #1 at Kanzenshuu
最近、あんまし投稿してないねんけど、見てんで。いっつも見てる。

User avatar
Kodoshin
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:39 pm

Post by Kodoshin » Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:33 pm

Actually in the case of Yu-Gi-Oh! I'm not sure why but apparently in the volume where the card game first shows up, when Yugi and Kaiba first meet, the name of the card game is allegedly different in the Jump and Graphic Novel versions (haven't seen it myself to confirm but message board talk indicates this), so if thats any extra hope for you, well there you go.

User avatar
Mattias
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:10 pm
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Contact:

Geez.

Post by Mattias » Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:38 pm

How in the heck does it take so long for Viz to actually release this manga to the public? Basically, most of what they have to do is translate, and localize, and in some case censor. But even then, it shouldn't take as long as having to draw every still, piece by piece.

Viz is taking a fricking long time releasing this.
[i]"Well, Diane, I'm sure you and your brother are devistated for the two-headed monster that could have been,"[/i] ~ Tom Tucker.

User avatar
SaiyaJedi
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 2387
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:24 pm
Location: Osaka
Contact:

Post by SaiyaJedi » Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:39 pm

Kodoshin wrote:Actually in the case of Yu-Gi-Oh! I'm not sure why but apparently in the volume where the card game first shows up, when Yugi and Kaiba first meet, the name of the card game is allegedly different in the Jump and Graphic Novel versions (haven't seen it myself to confirm but message board talk indicates this), so if thats any extra hope for you, well there you go.
Not much hope... but a little, I suppose. It's just so uncharacteristic of them, though... and besides, you'd think that if there was no problem, someone could've gotten back to me by now. :?

Maybe I'll write them again tonight, instead of waiting until the weekend...
Co-translator, Man-in-Japan, and Julian #1 at Kanzenshuu
最近、あんまし投稿してないねんけど、見てんで。いっつも見てる。

User avatar
Kodoshin
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:39 pm

Post by Kodoshin » Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:44 pm

One other reason I think you might be overreacting slightly, the March issue while pretty light on language did make mention of the word "Devil" (page 143), so I really doubt you have anything to worry about on the Mr. Satan front.

User avatar
SaiyaJedi
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 2387
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:24 pm
Location: Osaka
Contact:

Post by SaiyaJedi » Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:51 pm

Kodoshin wrote:One other reason I think you might be overreacting slightly, the March issue while pretty light on language did make mention of the word "Devil" (page 143), so I really doubt you have anything to worry about on the Mr. Satan front.
I hope so... I'm just not so sure there's the same standard for each manga...
Co-translator, Man-in-Japan, and Julian #1 at Kanzenshuu
最近、あんまし投稿してないねんけど、見てんで。いっつも見てる。

User avatar
Kodoshin
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:39 pm

Post by Kodoshin » Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:52 pm

I'm not so sure you were clear on what I meant, the mention of the "Devil" was in Dragon Ball.

User avatar
SaiyaJedi
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 2387
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:24 pm
Location: Osaka
Contact:

Post by SaiyaJedi » Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:55 pm

Kodoshin wrote:I'm not so sure you were clear on what I meant, the mention of the "Devil" was in Dragon Ball.
Oh, I see... for some reason, I didn't make the connection, for a minute. :?
Co-translator, Man-in-Japan, and Julian #1 at Kanzenshuu
最近、あんまし投稿してないねんけど、見てんで。いっつも見てる。

User avatar
Kodoshin
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 435
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:39 pm

Post by Kodoshin » Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:05 pm

Yeah, I really doubt that Viz is gonna botch things so badly as for us to fall into the abyss of hyper censorship.

I similarly have concerns over Shonen Jump though, as much as I love it I cannot stand the annoying "buy a graphic novel" blurbs at the bottom of seemingly every other page.

And honestly, the stuff they have censored so far they had no business censoring, it's a T-rated magazine afterall.

I think they are making most of these cuts purely with the intent of forcing subscribers to buy more graphic novels which is a rather dirty tactic.

Zackarotto
I Live Here
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:17 am

Post by Zackarotto » Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:08 pm

Don't worry too much about the graphic novel ads at the bottom, Kodoshin. As I was told in another topic, they're there in the Japanese SJ. At least the speech balloon ads ended as quickly as they came.

They might do this stuff to sell more GNs, I suspected FUNimation of doing the same stuff back when everything was heavily cut and uncensored versions were everywhere.

Tell you what, Julian, I'll see if I can find time to write out an email later. Not to complain about that particular translation but more asking for reassurance that they wouldn't do something to Mr. Satan, and that sort of thing.

User avatar
PsyLiam
I Live Here
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:13 pm
Location: Liverpool, UK
Contact:

Re: Geez.

Post by PsyLiam » Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:22 pm

Mattias wrote:How in the heck does it take so long for Viz to actually release this manga to the public?
Because if they released it all at once, no-one would be able to afford it, and they'd make a lot less in profit.

Plus everyone would bitch when they'd finished it that they'd rushed it.

Post Reply