Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by EmmaWinters » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:44 am

hleV wrote:Where does Toriyama say that BOG/ROF are part of the manga continuity? "Writing it as if the manga was still in serialization" does not translate to "Writing it as part of the manga continuity".
That isn't the quote.
The September 2014 issue of V-Jump wrote:[As with the last movie], I thought up the new story for the next Dragon Ball theatrical movie as though it were a continuation of the manga when it was in serialization. Just the fact that I don’t have to draw anything means I can obsess completely over the smallest bits of dialogue. Well, the truth is that I wasn’t planning on going that far, since it’s pretty exhausting at my age, but I got a little carried away.

This time will of course be a continuation of the previous Battle of Gods, but I’ve deliberately increased the amount of action scenes by a good deal. With regards to the contents, they told me, “Keep it a secret!” like they’re all high-and-mighty, so I can’t touch on it yet, but it should be super-duper interesting!
Not sure what more you want.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by hleV » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:51 am

So "I thought up the story as if it were a continuation of the manga when it was in serialization" translates to "the story belongs to the manga continuity"? Not in my book. To me it sounds like "I thought up a story imagining as if I was continuing the manga", which says nothing about it being true to the manga and which is different from "I thought up a story that I confirm to have happened in the manga continuity".

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by EmmaWinters » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:55 am

For the second time today, you're being too literal. The original word used was つもり, which is intention.
He wrote it with the intention of it being a continuation of the manga at the time of serialization.

I suppose you could ask Herms or Julian if you still don't believe it.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by hleV » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:01 am

What is too literal? Nothing ever states that BOG happened in the manga's continuity. We had quite a few discussions regarding this in the past, so I should know. Not to mention that at best, it's the story that Toriyama wrote that belongs to manga's continuity, and not what Toei made of that in BOG animation. And we do not know all the details of the story.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by EmmaWinters » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:04 am

hleV wrote:Nothing ever states that BOG happened in the manga's continuity ... Not to mention that at best, it's the story that Toriyama wrote that belongs to manga's continuity, and not what Toei made of that in BOG animation.
If he intended RoF to be a continuation of the manga, and calls RoF a direct sequel to Battle of Gods (with both Beerus in Whis appearing in it), why wouldn't you consider it part of the manga's continuity?
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by hleV » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:10 am

FatNagger69 wrote:
hleV wrote:Nothing ever states that BOG happened in the manga's continuity ... Not to mention that at best, it's the story that Toriyama wrote that belongs to manga's continuity, and not what Toei made of that in BOG animation.
If he intended RoF to be a continuation of the manga, and calls RoF a direct sequel to Battle of Gods (with both Beerus in Whis appearing in it), why wouldn't you consider it part of the manga's continuity?
I don't doubt that the story he wrote is also called BOG. Not that there's evidence that he considers any of it as part of the manga continuity.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by EmmaWinters » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:25 am

hleV wrote:I don't doubt that the story he wrote is also called BOG. Not that there's evidence that he considers any of it as part of the manga continuity.
If he meant his version and not "Toei's version", why wouldn't he specify? Now you're being selectively literal.
I give up. You're looking to argue, not to be convinced.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by hleV » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:04 am

FatNagger69 wrote:
hleV wrote:I don't doubt that the story he wrote is also called BOG. Not that there's evidence that he considers any of it as part of the manga continuity.
If he meant his version and not "Toei's version", why wouldn't he specify? Now you're being selectively literal.
I give up. You're looking to argue, not to be convinced.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Vegard Aune » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:13 am

Seeing how Toriyama has also been retconning elements of Battle of Gods into the backstory of manga-characters with some of his later tidbits about the series (Beerus was the one who sealed up the Elder Kaioshin, Freeza knew about the Super Saiyan God), I'd say it's pretty obvious that Toriyama considers it part of the manga's timeline. Resurrection F (Yeah, I'm using my own translation for FnF. I just like the sound of this one better) has been plainly stated to be a sequel to Battle of Gods. Thus, once again Toriyama clearly is writing it with the intent that "Yeah, this actually happened in the manga continuity, we just didn't see it."

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Blade » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:47 am

Vegard Aune wrote:Seeing how Toriyama has also been retconning elements of Battle of Gods into the backstory of manga-characters with some of his later tidbits about the series (Beerus was the one who sealed up the Elder Kaioshin, Freeza knew about the Super Saiyan God), I'd say it's pretty obvious that Toriyama considers it part of the manga's timeline. Resurrection F (Yeah, I'm using my own translation for FnF. I just like the sound of this one better) has been plainly stated to be a sequel to Battle of Gods. Thus, once again Toriyama clearly is writing it with the intent that "Yeah, this actually happened in the manga continuity, we just didn't see it."
Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that he's gone out of his way to tie everything together as best as possible.

I mean, there are obvious examples of stuff tied into Dragonball that Toriyama has released which he clearly doesn't consider as part of the main timeline, such as gag material like Neko Majin, which probably falls in somewhere with some of the earlier Dragonball gag stuff which is nonsensical in retrospect, such as Boss Rabbit being marooned on the Moon by Goku.

Battle of Gods is a totally different animal, it's clear that these films are creative endeavors that he genuinely wants to be considered as a continuation of his story - he's even said as much, they're just in the form of cinema as opposed to Manga, which is a format he clearly doesn't have any interest in getting involved in for anything more than a one-shot here and there. Heck, from the sounds of it, in retrospect he even considers Jaco to have been too much work to take on, even as un-detailed, short and unpolished as it is.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Birusu16 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:59 am

Vegard Aune wrote:Seeing how Toriyama has also been retconning elements of Battle of Gods into the backstory of manga-characters with some of his later tidbits about the series (Beerus was the one who sealed up the Elder Kaioshin, Freeza knew about the Super Saiyan God), I'd say it's pretty obvious that Toriyama considers it part of the manga's timeline. Resurrection F (Yeah, I'm using my own translation for FnF. I just like the sound of this one better) has been plainly stated to be a sequel to Battle of Gods. Thus, once again Toriyama clearly is writing it with the intent that "Yeah, this actually happened in the manga continuity, we just didn't see it."
This is all there is to it really. The minute Toriyama began tossing elements from BoGs into the manga continuity (Beerus being the one who sealed the Elder Kai. Beerus being the one who destroyed King Kai's planet hence the reason it is now so small. And so on and so forth) was the minute it became a part of that continuity.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:20 pm

hleV wrote:
FatNagger69 wrote:
hleV wrote:Nothing ever states that BOG happened in the manga's continuity ... Not to mention that at best, it's the story that Toriyama wrote that belongs to manga's continuity, and not what Toei made of that in BOG animation.
If he intended RoF to be a continuation of the manga, and calls RoF a direct sequel to Battle of Gods (with both Beerus in Whis appearing in it), why wouldn't you consider it part of the manga's continuity?
I don't doubt that the story he wrote is also called BOG. Not that there's evidence that he considers any of it as part of the manga continuity.
Well, he did mention Beerus in unrelated to BoG interviews twice, and he also had SSG mentioned in Jaco, which was a tie-in to the original manga & Jaco.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Low Tone G » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:33 pm

Vegard Aune wrote:Seeing how Toriyama has also been retconning elements of Battle of Gods into the backstory of manga-characters with some of his later tidbits about the series (Beerus was the one who sealed up the Elder Kaioshin, Freeza knew about the Super Saiyan God), I'd say it's pretty obvious that Toriyama considers it part of the manga's timeline. Resurrection F (Yeah, I'm using my own translation for FnF. I just like the sound of this one better) has been plainly stated to be a sequel to Battle of Gods. Thus, once again Toriyama clearly is writing it with the intent that "Yeah, this actually happened in the manga continuity, we just didn't see it."
That's it. Even if Toriyama did not intend from the start to include BOG in the manga continuity, he could have changed his mind when gave Beerus the role to be the one to seal Old Kai in the sword. That pretty much makes the manga's story to be richened. So if ROF is a direct continuation to BOG, then it should also be a new story that has happened in the manga's storyline.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Careless Saiyajin » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:09 pm

Low Tone G wrote:
Vegard Aune wrote:Seeing how Toriyama has also been retconning elements of Battle of Gods into the backstory of manga-characters with some of his later tidbits about the series (Beerus was the one who sealed up the Elder Kaioshin, Freeza knew about the Super Saiyan God), I'd say it's pretty obvious that Toriyama considers it part of the manga's timeline. Resurrection F (Yeah, I'm using my own translation for FnF. I just like the sound of this one better) has been plainly stated to be a sequel to Battle of Gods. Thus, once again Toriyama clearly is writing it with the intent that "Yeah, this actually happened in the manga continuity, we just didn't see it."
That's it. Even if Toriyama did not intend from the start to include BOG in the manga continuity, he could have changed his mind when gave Beerus the role to be the one to seal Old Kai in the sword. That pretty much makes the manga's story to be richened. So if ROF is a direct continuation to BOG, then it should also be a new story that has happened in the manga's storyline.
I completely agree with all of this and really am looking forward to see how this next film ups the anty regarding action and takes the story further.


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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by El Diabeetus » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:23 am

TheRed259 wrote:I didn't know that there is also a Tagalog version of Battle of Gods...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyONJsMHnWk
Not sure if I like Beerus' voice here, but like the proper Saiyan pronunciation.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by bleed0range » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:27 am

hleV wrote:So "I thought up the story as if it were a continuation of the manga when it was in serialization" translates to "the story belongs to the manga continuity"? Not in my book. To me it sounds like "I thought up a story imagining as if I was continuing the manga", which says nothing about it being true to the manga and which is different from "I thought up a story that I confirm to have happened in the manga continuity".
A simple usage of common sense would tell you that if he bothered to mention how it would be like a continuation of the manga then he intends it as though it were a continuation of the manga. The manga is over. It can't LITERALLY continue the manga because the manga is over. But it is a continuation of the manga storyline.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Big Momma » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:04 am

Looks like there's a "Special Edition"(?) of this coming out on BD/DVD on 3/13.

Image



I'm guessing it's the extended cut? Nice to see Japan is getting a home release it finally.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by sintzu » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:22 am

Big Momma wrote:Looks like there's a "Special Edition"(?) of this coming out on BD/DVD on 3/13.

Image



I'm guessing it's the extended cut ?
It is,it was announced a few months ago.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods

Post by Big Momma » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:29 pm

sintzu wrote:
It is,it was announced a few months ago.
Welp, show's how much I've been watching this thread, hahaha :lol:
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