REAL Reasons to Dislike the Original Japanese Version

[OutlawTorn]

- If you aren't fluent in Japanese, it is a completely different experience than watching just the animation as 30% or more of the time of each second, your eyes are READING.

As a citizen of a country that only subs virtually every piece of foreign media on TV, DVD and Bluray, and also has a fair amount of national media on those mediums (which obviously has no subs), I find this reason laughable.

You are simply not used to it.

I don't think it's a matter of not being used to it, it's just a different experience than what the Japanese audience would have. On one hand, you have people who just watch the show and gets the nuances of the performance while, on the other, you have people who watch the show but need to constantly divert their attention to read subtitles during scenes with dialogue.

I can easily watch a show subtitled and enjoy it, but while I might cringe at an awkward performance in English, I really would not be able to tell if a performance in Japanese is a good one or not. It's not a make or break thing, but it definitely results in a different overall experience.

In the end, though, everybody is different and some may have no problems picking up which others cannot, but I wouldn't say the reasoning is "laughable," just different from what others may perceive.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

-I don't like having to read subtitles
-I can't stand Goku's japanese voice, when he yells it makes my ears bleed
-I can't stand the music, I think it mostly sounds like marching band music and doesn't fit the atmosphere well

Depending of the Japanese version I watch, you'll settle in for that too. After all, the series is based on Eastern cultures.

[CaBrPi]

Personally, the only reason I can think of is that I find that the music sometimes (though rarely) breaks the tension. There's one Cell-era theme in particular I can think of, that usually plays when #17 or #18, or Cell himself are beating the heroes to a pulp, and the music really builds on the tension here, and then... a sound, like one of those plastic whistles you got from birthday parties as a kid.

[rereboy]

I don't think it's a matter of not being used to it, it's just a different experience than what the Japanese audience would have. On one hand, you have people who just watch the show and gets the nuances of the performance while, on the other, you have people who watch the show but need to constantly divert their attention to read subtitles during scenes with dialogue.

I can easily watch a show subtitled and enjoy it, but while I might cringe at an awkward performance in English, I really would not be able to tell if a performance in Japanese is a good one or not. It's not a make or break thing, but it definitely results in a different overall experience.

In the end, though, everybody is different and some may have no problems picking up which others cannot, but I wouldn't say the reasoning is "laughable," just different from what others may perceive.

I've never heard anybody in my country complain about foreign stuff being subbed instead of dubbed with the reasons you stated, and like I said, we don't sub everything, we just sub what is foreign and let what is in portuguese without subs. Therefore we are constantly watching stuff without subs and with subs, so we know better than anyone how the two compare to each other once we are used to it, and, nevertheless, the only people I've ever heard complain about something being subbed instead of dubbed with the reasons you stated, are people online from countries that dub almost everything.

What does that tell you? Simple, you are just not used to it and it bothers you because of it. That is why that reason is "laughable". If you were used to it it wouldn't be a issue at all and your experience would be the same or greater because you would experience the image and original audio while still understanding what was being said. Someone used to it follows the image (which include the actors' performance), the subtitles and the audio effortlessly and doesn't notice any negative effects from it being subbed, only positive ones since it keeps the original audio.

-I don't like having to read subtitles

Yeah, I've never heard someone in my country say this for example. From little kids to the elderly I've never heard someone in my country state this. That alone should prove the point. You are simply not used to it.

(I've heard the elderly complain about the subtitles being too small for them to read when they can't see as well as they used too though).

[dbboxkaifan]

I've never heard anybody in my country complain about foreign stuff being subbed instead of dubbed with the reasons you stated, and like I said, we don't sub everything, we just sub what is foreign and let what is in portuguese without subs. Therefore we are constantly watching stuff without subs and with subs, so we know better than anyone how the two compare to each other once we are used to it, and, nevertheless, the only people I've ever heard complain about something being subbed instead of dubbed with the reasons you stated, are people online from countries that dub almost everything.

Given that I've stopped watching Portuguese for some years now, I remember some really atrocious subtitles from films and series that made me wish the subtitles weren't burned to the picture or else I'd prefer to turn them off, but Portuguese TV doesn't allow such thing they're outdated.

I do complain about PT subs and dubs but it's due to little to no effort that the companies who produce them. Portuguese dubs can be pretty horrific too (DBZ, Digimon.. Too many to list).

[Puto]

The Portuguese Digimon dubs (not counting the very first season which was dubbed by Valentim de Carvalho instead of Pim Pam Pum) are actually pretty damn good -- the recent dub of Savers (or 'Data Squad') was plain awesome.

[SSJ3_Gogeta]

Personally, the only reason I can think of is that I find that the music sometimes (though rarely) breaks the tension. There's one Cell-era theme in particular I can think of, that usually plays when #17 or #18, or Cell himself are beating the heroes to a pulp, and the music really builds on the tension here, and then... a sound, like one of those plastic whistles you got from birthday parties as a kid.

+1 The slide whistles can seem very unfitting at times. But I like most of the Kikuchi music, at least in Z (Kai's Kikuchi score was not very well placed, IMO).

[kei17]

Personally, the only reason I can think of is that I find that the music sometimes (though rarely) breaks the tension. There's one Cell-era theme in particular I can think of, that usually plays when #17 or #18, or Cell himself are beating the heroes to a pulp, and the music really builds on the tension here, and then... a sound, like one of those plastic whistles you got from birthday parties as a kid.

The piece of music quickly came across my mind is M1515, but it was never used during the Android/Cell arc (it was in Kai though). What specific piece are you talking about?

[rereboy]

Given that I've stopped watching Portuguese for some years now, I remember some really atrocious subtitles from films and series that made me wish the subtitles weren't burned to the picture or else I'd prefer to turn them off, but Portuguese TV doesn't allow such thing they're outdated.

I do complain about PT subs and dubs but it's due to little to no effort that the companies who produce them. Portuguese dubs can be pretty horrific too (DBZ, Digimon.. Too many to list).

True, but that is a problem with the translation used and not with the use of subtitles itself (or dub).

[dbboxkaifan]

^ In case they were to hire people who actually know English (UK/US) and are qualified to be translators, the results would be a lot different than what has been spread throughout the years.

Kikuchi related; on Doraemon there's a BGM which I detest how it ends, it's annoying but what's worse is that each episode is short and uses about the same BGMs always. Kind of like Shin-chan too.

[LiamKav]

I do find the thoughts on subtitles interesting. Someone mentioned a subtitles scene in Lost, which touches on the big difference. With live action, there's a whole host of clues helping you understand what is going on. Expressions, body language, and so on. There's a whole host of subtle clues your brain picks up on telling you what people are feeling at any given time. These are things that animators struggle to replicate in big budget cartoons, and for something as cheap as DBZ, rarely go beyond "I have my eyes squinted now because I am angry".

Good voice actors are able to transfer some of that over to the dialogue. We can pick up inflections. If someone is threats to kill a main character, and that character responds with "you are welcome to try", it could be delivered in a hundred different ways. Quiet confidence. Brash arrogance. Sarcastic politeness. These things are much harder to pick up from just reading the words. If you have the Japanese track playing you will pick up on some of this, but a good chunk will be missed.

Ideally, a good dub would capture this. It would get the inflections. It would get the nuances. It would mean you wouldn't be second guessing what you are reading, trying to understand an actor performing in a language you don't understant. THAT is the main argument I'd use if I was saying the Japanese original loses something compared to the dub.

Of course, most of this requires a competent dub, something that DragonBall didn't have for a lot of its run. So, hey ho.

Oh, and I'd also stick the "KKKKKKKK" noise in there. Sorry, but it just really, really grates.

A thought on Nozawa: I can tell the difference between her Goku and Gohan quite easily, but I also think it's fairly obvious that the same person is doing both roles. Compare that to, say, Harry Shearer doing Burns and Smithers. I don't think there's any way you can tell that's one guy doing two voices having a conversation with themselves.)

Finally (at last), I do feel I have to start up for the US (and other English speaking countries too) regarding some comments. It is perfectly fair to say that people in those countries are not used to reading subtitles. However, there is much, much, MUCH less of a need for them to do so. People in other countries get used to it because an awful lot of what they watch is American produced. That doesn't happen the other way around, so why would someone need to pick up the skill required to watch Spain's latest gritty cop show when it's not something they are going to encounter every day? People haven't actively avoided having to learn to read subtitles, it's just a skill that is less useful to them. Rather like how English-speaking countries tend to be worse at speaking a second language. It is far more useful in life for a French person to learn how to speak English than vice-versa. It's unfair, but true.

[Eire]

dbboxkaifan Hiring translator from USA? That would be putting chart before horse. The rule is that is that people translate from taught to native. You can learn or check nuances of language that you receive, but it's nearly impossible to manage to learn foreign language as your won with all details to write like native.

The problem with TV is that translators are usually underpaid and only thing that bothers the producers is time, not quality. Moreover, when it comes to cinema releases, to prevent leaking translators usually doesn't get the film to watch, just the script (It was painfully obvious when I watched Avatar- too bad that from all possible meanings of "floating" they chose the worst)

[OutlawTorn]

I don't think it's a matter of not being used to it, it's just a different experience than what the Japanese audience would have. On one hand, you have people who just watch the show and gets the nuances of the performance while, on the other, you have people who watch the show but need to constantly divert their attention to read subtitles during scenes with dialogue.

I can easily watch a show subtitled and enjoy it, but while I might cringe at an awkward performance in English, I really would not be able to tell if a performance in Japanese is a good one or not. It's not a make or break thing, but it definitely results in a different overall experience.

In the end, though, everybody is different and some may have no problems picking up which others cannot, but I wouldn't say the reasoning is "laughable," just different from what others may perceive.

I've never heard anybody in my country complain about foreign stuff being subbed instead of dubbed with the reasons you stated, and like I said, we don't sub everything, we just sub what is foreign and let what is in portuguese without subs. Therefore we are constantly watching stuff without subs and with subs, so we know better than anyone how the two compare to each other once we are used to it, and, nevertheless, the only people I've ever heard complain about something being subbed instead of dubbed with the reasons you stated, are people online from countries that dub almost everything.

What does that tell you? Simple, you are just not used to it and it bothers you because of it. That is why that reason is "laughable". If you were used to it it wouldn't be a issue at all and your experience would be the same or greater because you would experience the image and original audio while still understanding what was being said. Someone used to it follows the image (which include the actors' performance), the subtitles and the audio effortlessly and doesn't notice any negative effects from it being subbed, only positive ones since it keeps the original audio.

I don't think you're understanding what I was saying. It's not about being "used to" subtitles or being bothered by it, which is something I didn't actually say. What I was saying is whether you are used to subtitles or not, it isn't the "same experience" as simply watching something in your native language (or languages, for the multilingual). I sort f get the impression you feel I am against watching something subtitled, which isn't accurate as I do have some sub-only material.

So, no I do not find such reasoning to be "laughable" and I see that particular viewpoint to be somewhat shortsighted as everybody has different viewing habits. Some people may simply dislike subtitles as a whole and it's not for me nor you to judge them or look down upon that preference because it may be standard operating procedure in your country. In Canada, there are any number of programs in different languages, but I have rarely ever seen them subtitled.

Let me just ask this, of all the programs you may watch subtitled, do you understand each and every word which is being spoken as well as the grammar and know which sounds correspond to the translated words Can you look away from the screen and listen to the dialogue and follow it as fluently without the visual aid? If you didn't have such subtitles, would you know Goku had a "hick" accent compared to Bulma or Vegeta? It's more than just understanding the words, as you could totally misinterpret the meaning if you weren't aware something was meant as sarcasm of not. So, regardless of how used to subtitles someone is, just requiring subtitles imposes a different experience for a viewer, not negative or positive, just different. What I'm trying to say is it's not a bad thing that the experience is different, just that there is a difference, however minor it may be.

[VegettoEX]

If you didn't have such subtitles, would you know Goku had a "hick" accent compared to Bulma or Vegeta?

I picked it up, yeah. He was clearly speaking differently than everyone around him.

I was, ya' know, actually listening, though ^_~.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I agree with rereboy. You are just not used with the subs. I watch almost every single movie with subs since I was 9, and it doesn't affect my experience at all.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Kikuchi's music not matching scenes is probably the biggest, least charged one (Since you would actually need to watch a lot of the series with his music in the first place to argue it). The best example I recall is the Final Flash against Cell; the piece chosen was the best that could have been chosen, but it isn't desperate enough to tell me Vegeta's potentially about to bust the planet.

[Puto]

IIRC, the Final Flash didn't have music at all in Japanese Z.

[dprez]

The back ground music is a bit repetitive. Luckily we have the "insert songs" to spice things up every know in then. O, how I love those insert songs! Pure epic.

[fps_anth]

There was a recent dub vs. sub war over at NeoGAF, and it's the same old arguments over and over:

-The usual shitting on Nozawa's Goku for sounding like a girl.
-The Kikuchi score sounds like "circus music", while the dub score is "real shit that gets you pumped".

These two points always seem to come up. The inaccuracy of the dub's script, however, always seems to be conveniently ignored, heh.


I personally don't completely despise the dub (besides Freeza's voice). I think the rock music does have its moments, but they are few and far between. I guess I have strong nostalgia for the dub, but as soon as I realized there was an original, Japanese version, and the dub was based on an inaccurate script... there was really no going back.

[CaBrPi]

Personally, the only reason I can think of is that I find that the music sometimes (though rarely) breaks the tension. There's one Cell-era theme in particular I can think of, that usually plays when #17 or #18, or Cell himself are beating the heroes to a pulp, and the music really builds on the tension here, and then... a sound, like one of those plastic whistles you got from birthday parties as a kid.

The piece of music quickly came across my mind is M1515, but it was never used during the Android/Cell arc (it was in Kai though). What specific piece are you talking about?

That's actually the very piece I was thinking of. I must've been confusing Kai and the original. But yeah, I still think that, at times, the Kikuchi soundtrack harms the tension of certain scenes, and there are times where I find it to be just plain boring. That's not to say the dub soundtrack is better or anything. There are a few points where I prefer it, but those times are rare.