REAL Reasons to Dislike the Original Japanese Version

[chaosakita]

Ok, I'm one to usually not complain about Japanese VA, and I usually prefer it infinitely to English dubs. However, I can't stand Masako's rendition of Bardock AT ALL. Her voice works pretty good for the younger Sons, and I think it is pretty unique choice for her to voice adult Goku. But she is not convincing as Bardock. He is supposed to be a ruthless, experienced Space Bandit, not some naive guy who was dropped on his head as a kid and lived in the middle of nowhere.

[LiamKav]

If you didn't have such subtitles, would you know Goku had a "hick" accent compared to Bulma or Vegeta?

I picked it up, yeah. He was clearly speaking differently than everyone around him.

I was, ya' know, actually listening, though ^_~.

Wouldn't you have to have background knowledge to know that it was a "hick" accent though? The impressions accents give don't normally come across between languages.

There was a study done where different British accents were played to people form the UK and the US, and people were asked how "clever" they they thought the speaker was. Most people in Britain voted that people with a Brummie (Birmingham) accent sounded a bit "thick". No-one from the US got that impression. They lacked the curtural background necessary.

So, I guess a reason to dislike the original is that you would have to do research to fully appreciate it. You can't get everything you need just from watching the DVDs with subtitles up. Now, you could argue that people should be more open minded, but I also understand someone saying that they shouldn't have to do background reading to watch a cartoon. It depends on how "into" the series you want to be, I suppose.

[Eire]

Everyone is speaking about accents- but they are untranslatable, no matter the method of translation. You can play with similarities, but there's no method for translating the whole context.

[chaosakita]

I would rather have people write in the subtitle notes (as fandubbers sometimes do) what different accents and speaking styles mean. I don't think it's the perfect solution, but I don't think dubbing is either.

Actually, I think DBZ is the only English dub that I find good though.

[El Diabeetus]

I'm gonna agree that Nozawa, I'm not a fan of her as Gohan (adult) or Bardock. It's not that the acting is bad, in fact it's really good. It's just Gohan or Bardock aren't manchildren like Goku is.

It would be neat to see more done with Goku's accent in English. Schemmel is definitely capable as the few instances have shown in Kai. Plus, I think he did pretty well with Clay's accent in Pokémon, so if it came down to giving Goku a new accent, he could do it.

[AgitoZ]

I'm gonna agree that Nozawa, I'm not a fan of her as Gohan (adult) or Bardock. It's not that the acting is bad, in fact it's really good. It's just Gohan or Bardock aren't manchildren like Goku is.

That's probably why Nozawa portrays Gohan and Bardock completely different than Goku. If you can't hear the differences then that's a problem with you not Nozawa.

[chaosakita]

I'm gonna agree that Nozawa, I'm not a fan of her as Gohan (adult) or Bardock. It's not that the acting is bad, in fact it's really good. It's just Gohan or Bardock aren't manchildren like Goku is.

That's probably why Nozawa portrays Gohan and Bardock completely different than Goku. If you can't hear the differences then that's a problem with you not Nozawa.

What? Is it so hard to believe a woman can't convincingly portray a gruff guy? Women's voices have a certain range. I think Nozowa is stretching it a bit as Goku, but Bardock needs to have a completely different voice. I just watched the opening to the Japanese version of Kai the other day, and I was completely offput by Bardock's voice. I just don't think any woman can portray a guy like that, except for maybe Kujira.

[TheBlackPaladin]

With all this talk of women playing men (in the "Dragon Ball" animes at any rate), here's something I'd like to ask to those who are more "in the know." I've heard two theories behind some of the quirkier casting decisions in the Japanese version:

1) Toriyama cast a woman as Goku, and kept her voicing Goku when he became an adult, to emphasize how Goku would always be a child at heart.
2) Toei didn't want audiences--mostly children--to have to get used to new voices for the characters, and so whoever played a character first played them in every incarnation that followed.

So, my question is...which theory is correct?

I'm tempted to believe it's theory no. 2. No. 1 would explain keeping Masako Nozawa to voice adult Goku, but it wouldn't explain why she also voiced adult Gohan, who was WAY more mature than his father...even at a pretty young age. Furthermore, theory no. 2 seems to provide a logical explanation that can be applicable to all the characters. It explains why Takeshi Kusao played kid Trunks, why Mayumi Tanaka played adult Kuririn, why Masako Nozawa played adult Goku...it explains everything.

[JulieYBM]

I think keeping actors across time-spans was mostly a mix of things. For one, Nozawa Masako is a highly talented and prolific actress. Look at her resumé throughout the sixties, seventies, and eighties. Kitarou, Enma-kun, Doraemon, Kaibutsu-kun, Tetsurou, the list goes on. Nozawa is perfectly capable of playing more than just the Gokuu-type. When the time came for those characters to age, there really wasn't any reason to change actors.

As for Trunks, I assume keeping Kusao Takeshi was more an issue of convenience and his being prolific. Kusao was basically already coming in day and day out for other Toei properties, not to mention he had spent years building a chemistry with the other Dragon Ball cast members.

[Gaffer Tape]

I've said it before and I'll say it again that I think they were simply more interested in creating a seamless continuity of character than in the realism of the voice. No two actors ever portray the same character in exactly the same way, so it's always like trading it in for a new character if the performer changes. With Goku et al, there's a completeness and consistency to the characters that you just wouldn't get otherwise. Obviously it's a tradeoff in regards to what many consider the natural consequences of aging, but I just don't necessarily see that as more important than creating and maintaining a character.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again that I think they were simply more interested in creating a seamless continuity of character than in the realism of the voice. No two actors ever portray the same character in exactly the same way, so it's always like trading it in for a new character if the performer changes. With Goku et al, there's a completeness and consistency to the characters that you just wouldn't get otherwise. Obviously it's a tradeoff in regards to what many consider the natural consequences of aging, but I just don't necessarily see that as more important than creating and maintaining a character.

It's like when they did a "look into the future" episode of The Simpsons. Gown up Bart and Lisa still have the same voices, and it worked just fine.

[CashmanX]

I'm gonna agree that Nozawa, I'm not a fan of her as Gohan (adult) or Bardock. It's not that the acting is bad, in fact it's really good. It's just Gohan or Bardock aren't manchildren like Goku is.

That's probably why Nozawa portrays Gohan and Bardock completely different than Goku. If you can't hear the differences then that's a problem with you not Nozawa.

What? Is it so hard to believe a woman can't convincingly portray a gruff guy? Women's voices have a certain range. I think Nozowa is stretching it a bit as Goku, but Bardock needs to have a completely different voice. I just watched the opening to the Japanese version of Kai the other day, and I was completely offput by Bardock's voice. I just don't think any woman can portray a guy like that, except for maybe Kujira.

I still don't get this sentiment. Her Tullece is probably my favorite out of all of her performances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxomf2kMNI0

[El Diabeetus]

I still don't get this sentiment. Her Tullece is probably my favorite out of all of her performances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxomf2kMNI0

I love her Tullece as well, and I can tell the differences between all of her voices, I just don't see her as being fit for Bardock or Adult Gohan, their personalities are nothing like Goku's. Tullece works since he's an evil Goku. I wish the dub would've picked up on that and had Goku's voice actor do his voice too, depending on which dub you're watching.

[chaosakita]

The Tullece performance is interesting, but not really my cup of tea. I guess it comes down to personal preference.

[LiamKav]

To try and answer the original question, I guess having vision problems might be a reason not to watch the original Japanese version? I mean, if you're blind I'm not sure how much you'd get out of most DBZ fights even if you understand the language they are being spoken in, but more general vision problems might make reading subtitles difficult.

(Not that I want to speak for anyone with vision issues, you understand.)

[AgitoZ]

What? Is it so hard to believe a woman can't convincingly portray a gruff guy? Women's voices have a certain range. I think Nozowa is stretching it a bit as Goku, but Bardock needs to have a completely different voice. I just watched the opening to the Japanese version of Kai the other day, and I was completely offput by Bardock's voice. I just don't think any woman can portray a guy like that, except for maybe Kujira.

Thanks for missing my point. I wasn't getting at the fact that Bardock sounds like this burly, gruff man you want him to be. I was getting at the fact that if you think Bardock sounds exactly like Goku then that's your problem. Saying Nozawa puts in the same performance for every character isn't an opinion, it's just straight up wrong.

[Big Momma]

Personally, I'm on the fence with both versions. I'm more on the side of the original. I love the original score, the voice actors are great, and overall I just love the atmosphere. Of course it feels "dated", but that's because this show is from the late 80s/early 90s. I still love it. However, I can sit down and enjoy the dub, for the most part. Although I prefer the original, I still like the Menza score, and I love a lot of the English cast as well. The biggest, and one of the only, reasons I have a hard time watching the dub, is the script. Thankfully, Kai has come along. But if the original Z had a more accurate script, I would have little problem switching between the two.

[Sanity's_Theif]

-I don't like having to read subtitles

Yeah, I've never heard someone in my country say this for example. From little kids to the elderly I've never heard someone in my country state this. That alone should prove the point. You are simply not used to it.

(I've heard the elderly complain about the subtitles being too small for them to read when they can't see as well as they used too though).

No I've done it for other anime, it's not that I'm not used to it, I just don't like it, it's a small reason but it's still something that bothers me, the other 2 reasons I should've put more emphasis on.

There was a recent dub vs. sub war over at NeoGAF, and it's the same old arguments over and over:
-The Kikuchi score sounds like "circus music", while the dub score is "real shit that gets you pumped".

Circus music is a good description

[VegettoEX]

"Circus music" is the exact same description levied against the Faulconer Productions score that I remember, particularly toward the end of "Season Three" and onward into Garlic Jr.

Words better fans using sounding dumb descriptions.

[cRookie_Monster]

"Circus music" is the exact same description levied against the Faulconer Productions score that I remember, particularly toward the end of "Season Three" and onward into Garlic Jr.

Words better fans using sounding dumb descriptions.

There was a piece of music that was requested by Funimation during the Garlic Jr saga (Spice Boys beating up on Gohan). They wanted "Macabre Circus" music. That's what they got:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUjXKd8DZvI
The track was actually called "Circus Music" in the studio...nevermind the CD title. The Android 20 usage was a reusage, not sure why the CD title is named what it is.

Anyway, lots of fans were outraged, called it circus music...well...and rightfully so So, in a nutshell. That's where the whole Faulconer Circus music thing comes from.

There was also this, but I don't remember any complaints about it since they were at a carnival in the scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMy8VZqXHcE