Vegeta as a villain.

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Black Mask
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Vegeta as a villain.

Post by Black Mask » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:22 pm

I was think about this the other day but what if Vegeta had continued the series as an antagonist and they never met freeza and vegeta became a constant antagonist? I always preferred Vegeta as a villain because he was a dark mirror of Goku to an extent. Thoughts?Did you prefer him as a protagonist or antagonist?

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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by DarkPrince_92 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:25 pm

I think we could have just added this question to the Saiyan Saga Vegeta thread.... -__-
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by dbboxkaifan » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:31 pm

He was a weak overrated villain, never really liked him too much.

Plus that "I am the legendary Super Saiyan" got repetitive.
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by Saiga » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:02 pm

DBZ just doesn't do recurring villains, unless they appear again later for the purpose of losing to show how strong someone has become. I don't think it would work.
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by Insertclevername » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:36 pm

As Saiga said, I don't see a real villain ever be recurring, it just contradicts how Dragon Ball is written. He would be bland after a while and stick out when new arcs would come along.
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by soulnova » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:01 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:He was a weak overrated villain, never really liked him too much.

Plus that "I am the legendary Super Saiyan" got repetitive.

Weak?

I'm sorry, but up to the end of the Siayan arc, there were only so many people above Vegeta: Dodoria, Zarbon, Ginyu, Recoom, Freeza, Jeice, Butter, Frieza. For that matter, we would have to point out that Goku was weaker than base Vegeta even then.

There's a big problem even if Frieza hadn't learn about the dragonballs and had a motivation to go to Namek. As soon as Vegeta gets healed by the tank on Planet Frieza #(insert number here), his first thought was to go back to EARTH the next morning and kill Kakarot.... is where the problems start.

We would need to use math and look at the calendar for the following.

November 3rd, 762. Vegeta and Nappa arrived to Earth. Vegeta fled the same day.

November 14th, Gohan, Krillin, and Bulma leave for Namek

November 21st, Vegeta gets to Planet Frieza 79. It took him 18 days to get here.

December 13th, Vegeta's injuries are completely healed. He decides to go back to Earth the following day.

December 14th, Without having to worry about Frieza getting the Dragonballs, Vegeta leaves for Earth. It will take him 18 days.

December 18th, Gohan, Bulma and Krillin arrive to Namek. Goku gets his senzu. I want to clear one thing here first... Goku already had Dr.Brief working on his Space Ship so he had plans to meet them there from the beginning. He leaves for Namek. Goku keeps training, but not at the same pace as before. He's training to match Vegeta. He doesn't know about Frieza's strength. Gohan, Krillin and Bulma meet Mori and explain their situation. Most likely they would have to go to Guru to ask permission directly to use them or pass some test of courage to see if they are worthy of the Dragonballs. (The Z fighter arrive to train with King Kai).


December 24th, Goku arrive to Namek! Let's imagine the others were still going through the tests to get the dragonballs and with his help, they pass everything like a breeze! YAY! After the initial shock that they can only revive ONE person at a time, they decide to do it like this: First Piccoro to bring back Kami and Earth's DB. Then, because Earth's balls can bring Chaoz back, they decide to bring the little ageless midget. The last one is going to be most likely Tien because they are "great friends" *wink wink*. Yamcha can be brought back with the Earth's.

And so, the Nameks learn the true meaning of Christmas!! YAY! :mrgreen: They have a big party with WATER and WATER. Goku freaks out because he can't eat like he wants and decide to part to Earth the following day.

December 25th, Goku and Co. leave to Earth on his capsule. They can't train on gravity because it would crush Bulma. They hang out and relax. Gohan does homework.

December 31st, Goku and Co. arrive to Earth. Most likely they get a big party and get Yamcha back.

January 1st, 763, Vegeta arrives to Earth.

((TO CONTINUE- WILL EDIT LATER))
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by Ringworm128 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:44 pm

I like Vegeta as both a good and a bad guy, it's sort of like a yin and yang type thing one just wouldn't be as good without the other. IMO recurring villains would only work if DB was like a lot of American cartoons which follow the problem of the day formula. If we had things like Freeza and Ginyu or Vegeta popping up in the middle of the Buu saga to cause trouble it would be a cluster fuck, just look at Batman and Robin for an example of too many villains.
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by mattymoron » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:47 pm

I think Vegeta during the Namek arc is Toriyama's best writing in the entire series. Absolutely fantastic.

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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:38 pm

mattymoron wrote:I think Vegeta during the Namek arc is Toriyama's best writing in the entire series. Absolutely fantastic.
Agreed. By the Cell Saga he was whiny bitch the entire time. He always whined and complained about others. Luckily by Boo it toned down. Around Namek he was best.
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:50 pm

mattymoron wrote:I think Vegeta during the Namek arc is Toriyama's best writing in the entire series. Absolutely fantastic.
I'd have to disagree here... his constant Super Saiyan talk was a little grating.

Though I admit, during the Dragon Ball search part of the arc he was very well written, using strategy over plain power.
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:57 pm

Kingdom Heartless wrote:
mattymoron wrote:I think Vegeta during the Namek arc is Toriyama's best writing in the entire series. Absolutely fantastic.
I'd have to disagree here... his constant Super Saiyan talk was a little grating.

Though I admit, during the Dragon Ball search part of the arc he was very well written, using strategy over plain power.
Meh. Prefer his SSJ talk over constant bitching about people stronger then him. I personally have Vegeta in the order of best to worst in Sagas. For me it goes Namek, Boo, Saiyan, Cell.
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:44 am

Yeah, but mattymoron didn't say the best writing of Vegeta, he said best writing in the series.
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by SSj_Rambo » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:23 am

In all reality Vegeta is the Joe Pesci of the Dragonworld. Every villain and bad guy Pesci has ever played. Thats how I see Vegeta as a villain.

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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by vrblitz » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:16 am

Well he never really became a protagonist, he just... adapted :D Though I liked him the first half of DBZ more.

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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by Xyex » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:42 pm

soulnova wrote:I'm sorry, but up to the end of the Siayan arc, there were only so many people above Vegeta: Dodoria, Zarbon, Ginyu, Recoom, Freeza, Jeice, Butter, Freeza. For that matter, we would have to point out that Goku was weaker than base Vegeta even then.
And for some reason I feel the need to point out that if you compare the maximum powers of everyone at the point Vegeta arrives on Earth, he's technically the second most powerful person in the universe. Ginyu maxes out at 120,000 while Oozaru Vegeta's power would be 180,000. A power not matched by anyone other than Freeza until Goku arrives on Namek, and even then he needs a Kaioken to get there.
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by PiccoloFan7289 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:43 pm

Vegeta is a recurring villain. He is the main villain of the Saiyan Saga and is a recurring villain in the Namek/Freeza Saga. Just because he made an alliance with Gohan and Kuririn doesn't mean he changed into a hero for the rest of the Namek/Freeza Saga. That was probably the most uneasy alliance in the entire series. I consider Vegeta a villain in the series up until the point where he gives Bulma the idea to wish Goku and Kuririn back to life.

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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by soulnova » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:42 pm

Continuation from the above.

January 1st, 763, Vegeta arrives to Earth.

Everyone feels when Vegeta lands on the planet. Yamcha goes ballistic because he doesn't want to die... again.

They go to confront him. Surely by the time they arrive he already wrecked havoc on a city. Vegeta says "what the hell, you were all dead. No. Don't tell me you..."

"We used Namek's dragon balls lol"

*rage*

Vegeta at 24-30K PL is no match to Goku's 90K PL (trained half as hard because there was no real threat on Namek). Piccoro, Yamcha and Tien should be around 10-20K now that they trained at Kaio's place too. Vegeta goes *SNAP* asking how is even freaking possible this happened. Goku asks the others to stand back because it was implied he promised Vegeta he would stop him for good next time he came around.

They fight and there's no way Vegeta can defeat him. He tries all the tricks in the book and they barely work. Not wanting to drag things (and the humiliation) along, Goku proceeds to beat the living crap out of Vegeta. Bleeding and broken (again), the Prince of Saiyans then realizes Kakarot might have become a Super Saiyan. Goku offers him to let him go again (everyone else goes "Aww, C'MON"). Vegeta says no way, because he doesn't understand what true evil is... and that maybe, just maybe, Kakarot actually has a chance to face and defeat Frieza.


My vision becomes blurry here and anything else if mere speculation.
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by Cipher » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:50 pm

Saiga wrote:DBZ just doesn't do recurring villains, unless they appear again later for the purpose of losing to show how strong someone has become. I don't think it would work.
This seems pretty much on. Dragon Ball doesn't really--

Image

What? Huh? Hey, guys, get out of here!

Anyway, it is true that Dragon Ball doesn't really do recurring fighting-based villains. They tend to either die or become a friend, as it's hard to maintain a consistent threat with the series' power-scaling.

He was interesting as a villain but was destined, structurally, to either become a main character or die in a blaze of glory. As it happened, he got both.

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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by Saiga » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:27 pm

Cipher wrote:
Saiga wrote:DBZ just doesn't do recurring villains, unless they appear again later for the purpose of losing to show how strong someone has become. I don't think it would work.
This seems pretty much on. Dragon Ball doesn't really--

Image

What? Huh? Hey, guys, get out of here!

Anyway, it is true that Dragon Ball doesn't really do recurring fighting-based villains. They tend to either die or become a friend, as it's hard to maintain a consistent threat with the series' power-scaling.

He was interesting as a villain but was destined, structurally, to either become a main character or die in a blaze of glory. As it happened, he got both.
Pilaf doesn't appear in DBZ. :P
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Re: Vegeta as a villain.

Post by Jackal puFF » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:34 pm

Saiga wrote:
Cipher wrote:
Saiga wrote:DBZ just doesn't do recurring villains, unless they appear again later for the purpose of losing to show how strong someone has become. I don't think it would work.
This seems pretty much on. Dragon Ball doesn't really--

Image

What? Huh? Hey, guys, get out of here!

Anyway, it is true that Dragon Ball doesn't really do recurring fighting-based villains. They tend to either die or become a friend, as it's hard to maintain a consistent threat with the series' power-scaling.

He was interesting as a villain but was destined, structurally, to either become a main character or die in a blaze of glory. As it happened, he got both.
Pilaf doesn't appear in DBZ. :P
He will soon.. :wink:

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