Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by Kaboom » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:59 pm

All in all, as fun as it might be to make up theories, the most likely answer is just, "Toriyama doesn't remember or care about the differences anymore and is just 'spicing up' his Super Saiyan drawings."
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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by Saiga » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:15 am

More and more, I'm starting to think the sparks have nothing to do with SS2 and are just about power. Of course, it's also likely that Toriyama's art style changed over the years but I don't find that answer satisfactory to me. :P
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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by Gokuden » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:19 am

Super Saiyan went from Bulky, to Athletic, and finally to cute with sparks as we see here.
It looks close to the One Piece\Fairy Tail art, the more sharp look of recent manga.

I remember reading an article on this site that DragonBall was more round, and DragonBall Z was more square, maybe the recent manga wave in Japan is sharp.
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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:31 am

The sparks around aura is still a feature for SSj Grade 5. You see that in the manga when Gohan, Goku and Vegeta transformed into SSj Grade 5. The reason a regular Super Saiyan is shown with some sparks was probably due to immense power. Vegetto is an excellent example of that.

(I'm just referring to Grade 5 for just the fun of it.)
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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by hleV » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:54 am

I think right now the lightning for SSJ is only there to display one's power, but that didn't necessarily apply for the real DB series back then.

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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:01 pm

Saiga wrote:More and more, I'm starting to think the sparks have nothing to do with SS2 and are just about power. Of course, it's also likely that Toriyama's art style changed over the years but I don't find that answer satisfactory to me. :P
Same here. Especially since, even in the actual original manga, Vegetto displays sparks when he first transforms into a Super Saiyan.
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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by Bussani » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:53 am

So did Nappa when he powered up, funnily enough.
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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by batistabus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:40 am

This might just complicate it more, but for the OPFZ x DBZBOG crossover ticket, Goku is drawn with an electric aura. His hair isn't like Gohan's SS2 hair, but it's not really like Goku's SS1 hair either. It should also be noted that Luffy is depicted to be in Gear Second mode, so maybe SS2 would make more sense?

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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by Fox666 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:45 am

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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by Gonstead » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:58 am

Imagine Luffy or Goku using each others respective techniques. Luffy using Kaioken and Goku using Gear Second.
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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by lash » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:00 am

batistabus wrote:This might just complicate it more, but for the OPFZ x DBZBOG crossover ticket, Goku is drawn with an electric aura. His hair isn't like Gohan's SS2 hair, but it's not really like Goku's SS1 hair either. It should also be noted that Luffy is depicted to be in Gear Second mode, so maybe SS2 would make more sense?
It's just drawn in a more OP- like fashion(look at the curvature in Goku's eyes), but that's clearly SSj1 Goku's hair.
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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by batistabus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:33 am

lash wrote:It's just drawn in a more OP- like fashion(look at the curvature in Goku's eyes), but that's clearly SSj1 Goku's hair.
I don't know, it looks a little different to me. I don't think Toriyama's trying to mimic Oda's style...it just looks like he changed his style for the nth time.
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Even so, Gear 2nd, Super Saiyan 2...they both have 2...I don't know.

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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by Wobbuffet » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:59 am

Super Saiyan 1 and Super Saiyan 2 were always too similar to begin with. Maybe the differences become more subtle after you master both forms?
I mean, it was Goku who said that they were separate forms, but maybe they are just different forms of the same transformation, while Super Saiyan 3 is the only true transformation above Super Saiyan.

Does this make sense?
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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by hleV » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:08 am

batistabus wrote:His hair isn't like Gohan's SS2 hair, but it's not really like Goku's SS1 hair either.
Wanna elaborate on that? 'Cuz to me it's SS1 hair alright. Obviously not SS1 hair from, say, Freeza arc, but in the Boo arc SS1 hair does look just like in that picture.

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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by batistabus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:46 pm

hleV wrote:
batistabus wrote:His hair isn't like Gohan's SS2 hair, but it's not really like Goku's SS1 hair either.
Wanna elaborate on that? 'Cuz to me it's SS1 hair alright. Obviously not SS1 hair from, say, Freeza arc, but in the Boo arc SS1 hair does look just like in that picture.
The way it's parted/the way certain spikes stick up in the front just look off to me.

Then again, like most of where this problem comes from, it could just be a result of what Toriyama thought looked good that day.

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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by Rocketman » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:50 pm

I like anything that makes it harder for the people going NO WE MUST ANALYZE EVERY TINY LINE!

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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by InfernalVegito » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:23 pm

Hair changed significantly. More spiky.
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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:38 pm

Freeza arc
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Artificial Humans arc
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Cell Games arc
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Boo arc
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Battle of Gods
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Super Saiyan 2
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Goku is definitely a Super Saiyan in that picture.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by dprez » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:14 pm

He didn't seam to care too much about consistency when he was writing the original manga, so we shouldn't expect much from these one-shots.

Too me, that's just Ssj Goku. He could be Ssj2 because of the sparks, but the hair looks Ssj1. Toriyama most likely just drew a cool looking Super Saiyan Goku without thinking too much beyond that. If he had intended for Goku to be the strongest form of super saiyan before the obviously different Ssj3, then yes, he "forgot" the hair and simply added sparks. These days I would think he'd have to know of the two original super saiyan forms, aside from 3.

I would think that by now for Toriyama, "Super Saiyan" is a very broad term, in the sense of what he would make it look like. Big golden hair and an aura of some sort.

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Re: Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:36 am

Wobbuffet wrote:Super Saiyan 1 and Super Saiyan 2 were always too similar to begin with. Maybe the differences become more subtle after you master both forms?
I mean, it was Goku who said that they were separate forms, but maybe they are just different forms of the same transformation, while Super Saiyan 3 is the only true transformation above Super Saiyan.

Does this make sense?
I agree with this as well.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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