What would it take for a new DB series to work today?

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What would it take for a new DB series to work today?

Post by Sun_Wukong » Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:41 pm

If Toriyama were to make a new DB manga, what would it need to survive in today's market? My bet, lots of teen angst and love triangles. Naruto I'm looking at you.

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Post by Mike » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:21 pm

In my opinion, absolutely nothing. Dragon Ball already has a massive fan base that would attach itself to a new series no matter how bad. A more significant question would be what would a new Dragon Ball series need to actually be good? For that one I'm afraid I really just don't know. :?

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Post by VegettoEX » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:53 pm

A good show is a good show. I think the one big prejudice shows have to deal with over time, though, is their shallow-level appearance compared to other current shows. Newer anime fans are used to their progressive @ 29.97 fps, digital animation. Hand-drawn cels from the 1980s can take a little getting used to if you haven't seen something like that before.
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Thoughts

Post by rkpres17 » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:01 pm

A nickname for Dragonball Z was Drag On Ball Z. 291 episodes and only four major arcs.

To make a Dragonball series work there'd have to be shorter arcs. The length of the sagas in the first series or in the Saiyan Saga are good examples.

If Goku is going to be married then Chi Chi should take more responsibility. Death is something Goku can't help but in the case of running off to train Uub, Chi Chi should've tracked Goku down and tell him that he can train Uub during the day, as a job, and then come home to his family at night. She did something similiar during the three years leading up to the Androids. Gohan could train but he had to study as well.

If characters become useless, get rid of them. Yamcha, Tien, and Choazu are completely useless in Dragonball Z. I can see them training for the Saiyans and I can understand them wanting to train with Kaio, but once Trunks warns about androids who are even stronger than Super Saiyans, those three and Krillin have to know that no amount of training they do is going to add up to anything. For them it didn't matter at the end of the Cell Games and that made for a powerful scene when Cell was finally defeated but in a clean slate, excess characters are exactly that: excess.

Villains who are powerful enough to destroy the world: once you can destroy the world you've gone into the zany and out of control. If characters are really going all out then the planet shouldn't survive once the heroes are knocked down, and they always get knocked down, end of plot because they need oxygen. Have everyone be super-strong. Yes. But powerul enough to destroy the world or even the universe? No.

Super Saiyans: they used to be legendary. Now everyone and their dog can turn Super Saiyan. I can see Goku turning Super Saiyan. I can see Vegeta, Future Trunks, and Gohan catching up. I can even see Gohan doing Goku one better because he's a generation down and, as Goku says, Gohan's been able to keep up with the adults and is far stronger than Goku ever was when he was a kid, but Super Saiyan 2 should've been the costly form that Super Saiyan 3 ended up being, maybe even something Gohan lost once becoming a teenager because lack of constant training and lack of incentive wouldn't give him the same push to turn SSJ2 the same way he did during the Cell Games and it allows Goku and Vegeta, who do train, to become stronger than Gohan without worrying about Super Saiyan 2 or 3. Goku could also hold back power as a Super Saiyan and would still make Vegeta mad anyway. Goten and normal-timeline Trunks shouldn't turn Super Saiyan at all. They should be the same as Pan. A new interpretation should be extremely careful about how it uses Super Saiyans.

More thoughts as they come to mind.
Last edited by rkpres17 on Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Eclipse » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:07 pm

I dunno really. It might not work as well, as people might stay away from it due to it being like DBZ, but it would be pretty interesting. I'd see it as a reintroduction to Dragon Ball, as a new series wouldn't do anyone some good.

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Post by lost in thought » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:14 pm

VegettoEX wrote:A good show is a good show. I think the one big prejudice shows have to deal with over time, though, is their shallow-level appearance compared to other current shows. Newer anime fans are used to their progressive @ 29.97 fps, digital animation. Hand-drawn cels from the 1980s can take a little getting used to if you haven't seen something like that before.
I agree with Mike on that, when I first saw DB during it's CN airing, I didn't care for it based on it's art style. Now a few years later, I appreciate, and enjoy it for what it is, and like that it retains a hand-drawn look, and it isn't so clean.
It's all really in your preference.


But to touch on the topic itself, in order to make a new DragonBall work (mostly in the US here, since it would appear that it's mother land still has a lot of love for it,) is to get past the hate. You like it or you don't. There's no reason to be an ass about it.

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Post by h3ndrix2005 » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:42 pm

If they did something to it like Star Wars, I definitely wouldn't mind. A prologue of everything that happened before DB would be pretty cool, in my opinion. Everything from the Saiyajin race taking over planet Tsu-fru up to Bardock's final showdown with Freezer = something I'd definitely watch.

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Post by Chaos Saiyajin » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:56 pm

I have a few ideas for a new dragonball series:

-A story based on Grandpa Gohan and Gyuu Mao growing up and training under Roshi.
-What happens to Mirai Trunks after he returns to the future?

I agree with those of you who said that db's fanbase would make a new series an instant hit, good or bad. I also think it would be cool to have a cross-over with One Piece!

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Post by Li'l Lemmy » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:03 pm

h3ndrix2005 wrote:If they did something to it like Star Wars, I definitely wouldn't mind. A prologue of everything that happened before DB would be pretty cool, in my opinion. Everything from the Saiyajin race taking over planet Tsu-fru up to Bardock's final showdown with Freezer = something I'd definitely watch.
That's . . . really not that bad an idea! I agree with you. Personally, I don't think the series can be expanded much beyond the GT ending, but there's a hell of a lot of material to work with when it comes to a time before any of the three series we already know.

I think it would be great to see something along the lines of life as a Saiyan warrior; something that really explores the depth of their lost race and the savagery of their nature, as well as something to serve as a build-up for Freeza; how powerful he's known to be at that time and why he's so feared throughout the universe.

Done correctly, I think it would go a long way towards demonstrating just how Super the Super Saiyan actually is . . . and since we know how it all ends, I think it'd be fairly satisfying . . . and perhaps one of the characters we'd meet would be the Saiyan whose power eventually destroyed himself and the planet he was on! What led to that, huh?!

And we'd learn little tidbits along the way. I wonder how the Saiyan hierarchy is assembled. Do you advance through the ranks by picking fights with Saiyans who are stronger than you? . . . you know, that sort of thing.
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Post by Magnaboss » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:12 pm

Chaos Saiyajin wrote: I also think it would be cool to have a cross-over with One Piece!
Already happened, though it's a standalone thing. There was a special animation made for FujiTV's tour thing (I think?), whihc was spread across four screens. I don't have the link anymore. It was mainly Luffy and Goku fighitng the (what I think is) main villian from One Piece's Skypia arc.

However an actual, available animation, possibly crossing over the various Toei-owned Shonen Jump titles would be nice.

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Post by The S » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:41 am

A good show is a good show. I think the one big prejudice shows have to deal with over time, though, is their shallow-level appearance compared to other current shows. Newer anime fans are used to their progressive @ 29.97 fps, digital animation. Hand-drawn cels from the 1980s can take a little getting used to if you haven't seen something like that before.
Which is why most modern anime fans seem to loathe Lupin III.
Already happened, though it's a standalone thing. There was a special animation made for FujiTV's tour thing (I think?), whihc was spread across four screens. I don't have the link anymore. It was mainly Luffy and Goku fighitng the (what I think is) main villian from One Piece's Skypia arc.
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Re: What would it take for a new DB series to work today?

Post by Chuquita » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:50 am

Sun_Wukong wrote:If Toriyama were to make a new DB manga, what would it need to survive in today's market? My bet, lots of teen angst and love triangles. Naruto I'm looking at you.

I dunno, I can't see who on db/dbz you could place into a love triangle.
...you know it probably would make for some amusing filler eps though.


As for the angst, I could go without it. I watch tv to escape angst, not immerse myself into it. I enjoy db/dbz's action-adventure just the way it is.
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Re: Thoughts

Post by Tsukento » Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:13 am

rkpres17 wrote:To make a Dragonball series work there'd have to be shorter arcs. The length of the sagas in the first series or in the Saiyan Saga are good examples.
Might wanna review Dragon Ball GT. Shortest series, with short arcs. Series completely bombed compared to the longer Dragon Ball Z. >_>
rkpres17 wrote:If characters become useless, get rid of them. Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Choazu are completely useless in Dragonball Z.
Again, GT. All three are completely missing and really do nothing. Show was still bad.
rkpres17 wrote:I can see them training for the Saiyans and I can understand them wanting to train with Kaio, but once Trunks warns about androids who are even stronger than Super Saiyans, those three and Krillin have to know that no amount of training they do is going to add up to anything.
I think they already got the point that they couldn't compare to Super Saiyans, but do you really think they'd just give up after they spent their entire lives training to become stronger? o_O Tenshinhan knew damn well he didn't stand a chance against Cell and still held him off with his Kiko-Ho. The humans and Piccolo all did what they could to help Gohan in his Kamehame-Ha struggle with Cell, even though they knew they could be killed in an instant.
rkpres17 wrote:Super Saiyans: they used to be legendary. Now everyone and their dog can turn Super Saiyan. I can see Goku turning Super Saiyan. I can see Vegeta, Future Trunks, and Gohan catching up. I can even see Gohan doing Goku one better because he's a generation down and, as Goku says, Gohan's been able to keep up with the adults and is far stronger than Goku ever was when he was a kid, but Super Saiyan 2 should've been the costly form that Super Saiyan 3 ended up being, maybe even something Gohan lost once becoming a teenager because lack of constant training and lack of incentive wouldn't give him the same push to turn SSJ2 the same way he did during the Cell Games and it allows Goku and Vegeta, who do train, to become stronger than Gohan without worrying about Super Saiyan 2 or 3. Goku could also hold back power as a Super Saiyan and would still make Vegeta mad anyway. Goten and normal-timeline Trunks shouldn't turn Super Saiyan at all. They should be the same as Pan. A new interpretation should be extremely careful about how it uses Super Saiyans.
To quote Vegeta in a way, it was like a Super Saiyan Bargain Sale. It made no sense that the two boys could turn Super Saiyan with absolutely no problem or difficulty, unlike Gohan who spent years training. It made sense in Trunks' alternate timeline, but not in the one we're at. But also remember, Pan couldn't become Super Saiyan because her blood is too diluted (ignore the fact that the GT writers ignored what the Daizenshuu said when making Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr Super Saiyans). Goten and Trunks were merely half human, half Saiyan. Pan, however, has more human blood in her than Saiyan. Although it seemed like she was capable of keeping up with kid Goku and Trunks in GT. Then again..they completely weakened everyone in GT and even made the "all power" Super Saiyan 4 transformation into a complete joke and how Goku couldn't even beat every major villain in that form (Bebi didn't count since he was blasted into the sun, Goku's other forms could have done this).

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Post by Rocketman » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:18 am

If I were remaking DBZ, there's quite a few things I'd change.

1. Cut out nearly all of the staring contests and pointless filler.

2. Only two Super Saiyans, Goku and Vegeta. No SSJ2, 3, or 4.

3. Consistent animation.

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Post by Tsukento » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:27 am

Rocketman wrote:1. Cut out nearly all of the staring contests and pointless filler.
At the time, it was necessary so as not to catch up with the manga. :P
Rocketman wrote:2. Only two Super Saiyans, Goku and Vegeta. No SSJ2, 3, or 4.
No Gohan taking the torch? D: And there was no Super Saiyan 4 in Z. XP
Rocketman wrote:3. Consistent animation.
Highly agreed. The third animation group should've never been hired to begin with. I dunno WHY they allowed them to do such horrendous artwork. x_x; It was horrible seeing Freeza being sliced in half one episode in perfect Toriyama-like artwork..and then seeing some half-assed continuation in the next episode where no one looks anywhere close to the actual designs or Toriyama's style of art. Looked more like a fan was trying to mimic the art style and failed.
Last edited by Tsukento on Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by h3ndrix2005 » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:27 am

Rocketman wrote:Consistent animation.
YES. Definitely; that was the one thing I couldn't STAND about DB. It's understandable, though. One man doing the entire animation for the series would've taken forever. LoL, it would probably still be going on now, if that were the case.

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Post by tarsonis » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:48 am

Tsukento wrote:It was horrible seeing Freeza being sliced in half one episode in perfect Toriyama-like artwork..and then seeing some half-assed continuation in the next episode where no one looks anywhere close to the actual designs or Toriyama's style of art. Looked more like a fan was trying to mimic the art style and failed.
What do you mean? After Trunks slices Freeza after Freeza's return to Earth, the next episode has the same type of animation/artwork where it picks up from that spot. Unless we're talking about two different sets of episodes..

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Post by Duo » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:08 am

Now we seem to be talking what could have been better about Dragonball Z...But, if Vegotto cares, he'll take care of it.

It would definatly have to be much closer to the Manga. I know Filler was meant to keep the Anime from keeping up...which means they should wait longer to start the Anime! Or, if they catch up...take a break. Fans can wait, they'll get a better product in the end. The Manga story arcs were not ridiculously long, and everything flowed very well. It was top notch and if it were directly adapted with top notch everything put into it, it would reign above nearly all Anime's in existence, and no one would be able to hate it.

Sure it would end up much shorter, but quality is a far great factor in these things. And Digital animation and CGI would not be a bad thing. Classic can be good for some things, but DBZ has so much incredible stuff going on, it has to look beautiful, and it's much harder without some computer help.


If Toriyama-sama decided to do another Manga (which is doubtful) he would probably have to do an entire different timeline, as to avoid the controversy of dealing with the characters and having them not be like they were in GT. It might upset Toei a bit too, though I can't be sure. He could explore the origins/story of Freeza or just flash forward 1000 years.

Obviously, the scale of power did need work. Giving Vegeta the power to destroy a planet was a bit of a mistake. But, then again, he did intend to end it after Freeza, and it continued out of demand.

All in all, the Anime would have to and should just follow Toriyama's intentions and approvals as closely as possible, because having dealt with both sides quite a bit (That right, I don't just talk out of my ass) I can say that the Anime did not end up resembling the Manga very well, and Manga was amazing in every aspect. Same Story, Same Characters, Same Events...approach is everything.

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Post by Fuujin » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:38 am

Just... just... Keep the things that slow down the series too much like staring contests, hire the studio that did first episode of Rock Lee vs Gaara fight in Naruto to do the animation, give more screentime to second-stringers like Yamcha or (of course) The Ginyu Force, and I'd be in heaven.
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Post by Tsukento » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:43 pm

tarsonis wrote:What do you mean? After Trunks slices Freeza after Freeza's return to Earth, the next episode has the same type of animation/artwork where it picks up from that spot. Unless we're talking about two different sets of episodes..
You're way off. o_o When Trunks sliced Freeza in half, they used the best animation group they had. Then continuing on to the next episode where Trunks kills Freeza and his father, they used the worst animation group they had.

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