Will Dragonball ever truly die?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Sun_Wukong
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Post by Sun_Wukong » Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:28 pm

Zackarotto wrote:Aye, I was quite a bit younger than that when I started reading it.


I think I actually was 13 when I first got interested in it. Let's see, I was introduced to it in 1999, and I'm 19 now. So yeah, I actually was 13. How bout that.

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Chaos Saiyajin
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Post by Chaos Saiyajin » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:19 pm

I was...let's see...I was eight when I started watching DBZ on Toonami and reading Viz's monthly issues of Dragonball and Dragonball Z! I showed it off to all my friends at school and they began to like the manga more, because it was unedited and uncensored, unlike the dub.

Now, I'm older and still love Dragonball! I got my girlfriend into last year, a very hard process to go through. Tommarow, she's gonna get to read the first volume of DBZ! I hope I'll convert another...

Hell, even my youth minister at church likes DBZ... :P

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Post by *PINHEAD* » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:59 pm

Perhaps. All things come to an end. It's already considered "dead" by many elitist anime-fans, anyway.

Which makes me wonder...will Daizex ever die? :shock:
I was voted "most unique" and "most likely to become the next existential thinker" in high school.

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Post by Tanooki Kuribo » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:41 pm

Well, If Dragonball were to die we could always just wish it back with the Dragonballs... :lol: :lol: :wink:

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Post by lost in thought » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:03 am

Chaos Saiyajin wrote:I was...let's see...I was eight when I started watching DBZ on Toonami and reading Viz's monthly issues of Dragonball and Dragonball Z!
I imagine that makes you atleast 13.

*PINHEAD* wrote:Perhaps. All things come to an end. It's already considered "dead" by many elitist anime-fans, anyway.
Right, but when have elitists really had a grasp of anything that fit into normal logic?

Tanooki Kuribo wrote:Well, If Dragonball were to die we could always just wish it back with the Dragonballs...
Yeah, and then we could venture to Honalee with Puff the Magic Dragon! :P

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Post by Jerseymilk » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:02 am

*PINHEAD* wrote:Perhaps. All things come to an end. It's already considered "dead" by many elitist anime-fans, anyway.

Which makes me wonder...will Daizex ever die? :shock:
To add to Lost's statement. Since when did it matter what a bunch of stuck-up otaku fanboys think? :P
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Post by lost in thought » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:26 am

Jerseymilk wrote:To add to Lost's statement. Since when did it matter what a bunch of stuck-up otaku fanboys think? :P
Hehehe, nice Jers.

And to comment about what Jers just said (the Otaku part,): for some reason, it sort of irks me that people will describe themselves as Otaku. Not like it's bad or anything, but it isn't like any of us non-Asian fans of Anime' are sitting in Kyoto right now, watching the Saturday morning tunes' over a bowl of ramen, and a glass of Rice Wine.

Not that it really matters, but whenever I talk to someone (not online,) who identifies himself/herself as an Otaku, he/she is usually the most superficial anime watcher I've ever come in contact with, and has a lot of baseless assumptions.

Now if these people that I've met weren't quite so stuck up, maybe I wouldn't be so skewed on the whole matter, but because they do, I am.


#End Transmission#

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Post by h3ndrix2005 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:45 am

But still, it's not like you have to be Asian to be an Otaku. I mean, I'm Asian, but that doesn't make me a better fan than you or anyone in this forum, right? Right.

LoL, 'end transmission'. I had a nice laugh when I read that.

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Post by lost in thought » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:22 pm

h3ndrix2005 wrote:But still, it's not like you have to be Asian to be an Otaku. I mean, I'm Asian, but that doesn't make me a better fan than you or anyone in this forum, right? Right.

LoL, 'end transmission'. I had a nice laugh when I read that.
Well no, you're not a better fan, it's just an irritating appropriation. Like hentai for instance. America is in a trend right now, where anything Asian is cool, but really the appropriation of it isn't, and it's more tacky.
(Note: I am not meaning the culture, mannerisms, or the language, just the American appropriation of said things.)

So really, what I am getting at, is that "Otaku" in and of itself, is an Asian coined phrase, much like hentai, or any other word from one of the many languages associated with the vast amounts of culture. If you're American, you're a fan, it's as simple as that.
The English language is just as good as any other language, so if you're American, why not be a "fan", instead of trying to seem more with whatever it is you want to be with, by calling yourself by a descriptor from a completely different language (one in most cases, these people know nothing about, let alone be able to read, or write in.)

You gotta support your own culture, from time to time, right?

Edit:
I just thought of a good point to add. You're not anymore Asian, because you watch their cartoons, movies, or tv shows.

#For it is to laugh#

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Post by Jerseymilk » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:56 pm

It's not only that. The Japanese wouldn't want to proudly refer to themselves as "otaku" because in reality, the word has a very negative connotation to it. It represents someone who is abnormally obsessed with something, to the point that they are a nerd and have no life. Granted, the word has come to have a less harsher meaning here, but to me, the original one still applies. I personally don't want to refer to myself as something heavily associated with Tsutomu Miyazaki, a pedophile and serial killer who shocked Japan when he acted out his fantasies on little girls. He was a huge anime/manga/slasher films fan, especially of hentai of course.

So ya, when people who think it's cool to think of themselves as that term insult or pass judgement on DB's future, I don't take much stock in their judgement. 8)
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Post by lost in thought » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:07 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:It's not only that. The Japanese wouldn't want to proudly refer to themselves as "otaku" because in reality, the word has a very negative connotation to it. It represents someone who is abnormally obsessed with something, to the point that they are a nerd and have no life. Granted, the word has come to have a less harsher meaning here, but to me, the original one still applies. I personally don't want to refer to myself as something heavily associated with Tsutomu Miyazaki, a pedophile and serial killer who shocked Japan when he acted out his fantasies on little girls. He was a huge anime/manga/slasher films fan, especially of hentai of course.

So ya, when people who think it's cool to think of themselves as that term insult or pass judgement on DB's future, I don't take much stock in their judgement. 8)
Thats also another very good reason.

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Post by h3ndrix2005 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:30 pm

I see what you're saying; Saiyan is to Saiyajin as fan is to otaku. I guess I missed the point of your first post; I thought you were saying that you have to be Asian to be considered a 'true' fan.

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Post by lost in thought » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:06 pm

h3ndrix2005 wrote:I see what you're saying; Saiyan is to Saiyajin as fan is to otaku. I guess I missed the point of your first post; I thought you were saying that you have to be Asian to be considered a 'true' fan.
Nah, fans come in all shapes, sizes, genders, and races. But you gotta give props to your culture from time to time, and I think that as an American anime fan myself, identifying as an Otaku, for whatever reason, is in a way like a slap in the face to your distinct culture.

Or atleast thats my opinion.

I am a fan. :D

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Post by Zackarotto » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:03 pm

To summarize: Don't call yourself an otaku. Ever. I made the mistake of being one of those types of anime fans, long ago. I regret it.
*PINHEAD* wrote:Which makes me wonder...will Daizex ever die? :shock:
Yes. But let's hope it won't happen for a long while, and never think about it. :)
Jerseymilk wrote:I personally don't want to refer to myself as something heavily associated with Tsutomu Miyazaki, a pedophile and serial killer who shocked Japan when he acted out his fantasies on little girls. He was a huge anime/manga/slasher films fan, especially of hentai of course.
That reminded me to finally read his Wikipedia entry. I've been meaning to do it for a while. Sick bastard. The saddest part is, in my opinion anyway, he still gets to do what he loves in prison.

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Chaos Saiyajin
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Post by Chaos Saiyajin » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:09 pm

[quote="lost in thought"]

Chaos Saiyajin wrote:
I was...let's see...I was eight when I started watching DBZ on Toonami and reading Viz's monthly issues of Dragonball and Dragonball Z!

I imagine that makes you atleast 13.

[/quote]

I'll be 15 in march! :D

I hope Daizex never dies...although it will eventually, I guess I'll just have to... :? Well...I'll het back to you on that...
I really, really need to get back into the habit of posting.

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Post by Domon » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:10 pm

The English language is just as good as any other language, so if you're American, why not be a "fan", instead of trying to seem more with whatever it is you want to be with, by calling yourself by a descriptor from a completely different language (one in most cases, these people know nothing about, let alone be able to read, or write in.)
Well, in all fairness, many fandoms do refer to themselves with odd names. Star Trek fans call themselves "trekkies/trekkers" (or in the case of Deep Space Nine; "Niner"), Transformers fan call themselves "transfans", Star Wars fans call themselves... er, what do Star Wars fans call themselves?

Anyway, "otaku" isn't really all that much different, aside from that in this case, it's a loanword from another language (albit perhaps not used appropriatly, heh).

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Post by Super Sonic » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:43 pm

Now that I remember, yesterday when I was at my University's anime club, they were watching a tv show from Japan where they made a survey on the top 100 anime. I came in at #25 or so, but Dragon Ball was #2 after only Gundam. And they had Ms. Nozawa talk in character as Goku, Gohan and Goten (many of the shows featured had actors speaking in character).

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Post by lost in thought » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:45 pm

Domon wrote:Well, in all fairness, many fandoms do refer to themselves with odd names. Star Trek fans call themselves "trekkies/trekkers" (or in the case of Deep Space Nine; "Niner"), Transformers fan call themselves "transfans", Star Wars fans call themselves... er, what do Star Wars fans call themselves?

Anyway, "otaku" isn't really all that much different, aside from that in this case, it's a loanword from another language (albit perhaps not used appropriatly, heh).
We're not really talking about fairness, in relation to what people call themselves. In the instances you describe, the fans have developed labels based on the programming they are part of the fandom of; but "otaku" is some-what a misapropriation of a foreign language, to suit what-ever fledgling purposes that a fanboy/girl want, to associate themselves more closely to anime in general. And the sorted history of the term brings a whole new level of foolishness to it.

By your counter, DragonBall fans should label themselves as "DragonBall-ers" or something. Which would more accurately fit into the point you were trying to make.
In this instance however, we're looking at the different termonologies for the term of "fan"/"obsessive fan" spanning both English, and Japanese (which could be more, but I don't know any other terms, from any other language,) and are debating how giving yourself a title from a foreign language isn't going to make you seem any more like a fan, than just using the word that corrusponds with your first language.

Anyway, as far as StarWars goes... I have no idea. I myself am a fan of the movies (4, 5, and 6 any how) and even so have never heard any special labels fans have appropriated for personal identification. But you can always just refer to a StarWars fan as a "StarWars Fan". :)

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Post by Domon » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:54 pm

Well, yes. I do agree that the examples I listed and "otaku" are different for the reasons you've stated. I'm just trying to make the point that I've seen the self-labeling so much, I don't bother to give it much notice or thought.


Speaking of self-label, what specific anime-fan titles are there? I know there's "moonies" for Sailor Moon fans, and... something for Naturo fans, but what else is there?

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Post by lost in thought » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:16 am

Domon wrote:Well, yes. I do agree that the examples I listed and "otaku" are different for the reasons you've stated. I'm just trying to make the point that I've seen the self-labeling so much, I don't bother to give it much notice or thought.


Speaking of self-label, what specific anime-fan titles are there? I know there's "moonies" for Sailor Moon fans, and... something for Naturo fans, but what else is there?
Yeah, normally it doesn't bother me, but the whole Otaku thing just feels wrong.

But as far as anime fan-titles go, I don't know any, to be honest. I do however know one semi-detrimental one, given to fools who like to bandy about sensless things about Naruto; which is "Narutard." Fairly common label, too.

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