Dragon Ball Z - No plot or character development?

[thatdbzguy]

Claiming that DBZ has no plot or character development isn't an uncommon thing on the internet. Chances are, you've come across a comment accusing DBZ of having no plot or character development.

My question to you is, how do you feel about DBZ's plot and character development? Do you believe them to be nonexistent? To be just plain bad? To be great? Please feel free to go into however as much detail as you want to when expressing your views.

[Looneygamemaster]

I feel that you have to look very hard for something that's completely devoid of plot. DBZ definitely does have plot.

Now as to whether its plot is done well--eh, plot really isn't Toriyama's strong point, I'd say. He's good at humor and fighting--plot, not so much. Fortunately, he's good enough to not leave plot holes. Unfortunately, Toei isn't. It's really kind of disheartening to notice all their filler inconsistencies. The writing team's mantra must have been "First and foremost is padding! Don't worry about quality!"

Character development is kind of a more glaring flaw for Toriyama. He has lots of interesting characters, but so many of them get shoved into the background and can't catch up to Goku. That's not to say there aren't good moments--Mr. Satan's one of the best examples, and oddly, Toei helped in this regard. His development from an insanely annoying coward to a man who stands up to the villains even when he's shaking in his boots, is really well done.

But then there's Chi-Chi, who's definitely the nadir of character-writing for this title. When Z starts, she becomes a one-dimensional mother figure. Her single-minded worry about her children is clearly supposed to be funny, but it's not, it's ridiculously irritating and one-note (though I actually found her not just bearable, but somewhat funny in the Boo arc--maybe it's just me).

So...basically I'd say DBZ has an average plot and somewhat poor character development.

[DBZ Mick]

I think the Saiyan-Freeza arcs including the Bardock special are pretty well-written plot-wise. Actually everything up till those arcs generally are.

In terms of character development... I think it depends on what you are after.

Some characters like Vegeta and Piccolo do have quite decent character arcs.

Or do you see character development like this- which is from Wiki, which I find perfect to describe how I see it-

The audience must infer for themselves what the character is like through the character’s thoughts, actions, speech (choice of words, way of talking), looks and interaction with other characters, including other characters’ reactions to that particular person.

In that aspect I think Dragonball is quite good, even Goku has that albit not as well as others.

[Fizzer]

Dragon Ball has story arcs that have plots. The over-arcing plot for the entire story is just "These guys are getting older and doing stuff", though you could see the plot from the start of the story all the way up to the Freeza arc as Goku growing up to eventually avenge his race who he didn't even know about, when viewed retrospectively.

Arc wise, though:
- Hunt for the Dragon Balls arc: This is definitely a story, it has a good twist, there's definitely plot there.
- 21st Tenkaichi Bodukai: There is a plot, it isn't too serious, it's nice
- Red Ribbon Army arc: admittedly this is more of a series of obstacles for Goku, but there is a plot. He's searching for his dragon ball, Bora gets killed, he decides to find the rest of the dragon balls to bring him back to life.
- 22nd Tenkaichi Bodukai: This has a great plot (and character development)
- Piccolo Daimao/23rd Tenkaichi Bodukai: There's a good, strong plot here.
- Saiyan/Freeza arc: The plot is sometimes complex and appears to be well thought out. Someone watching for just a couple of episodes could easily get fight episodes and not see any plot though.
- Cell arc: Had a plot that I struggled to get my head around as a kid.
- Boo arc: Well, this really does just feel like a "series of events" to be honest... The first half of it had a decent plot.

In terms of character development, the series is great. Even in just the Z portion Piccolo, Vegeta and Gohan have excellent character devlopment. Looking at the bigger picture, I'm a particular fan of Goku's transition from someone who kills his enemies to someone who doesn't, to someone who understands that some forgiveness is wasted.

[Cursed Lemon]

The only characters in DBZ who truly undergo a significant amount of character development are Gohan and Vegeta (Piccolo in the first saga).

But DBZ has plenty of plot, it just depends on whether you consider it to be good plot.

[Rocketman]

I think most people don't consider DBZ to have character development because almost all the characters got developed back in Dragonball.

[Gaffer Tape]

It's an interesting criticism, and not without merit. Dragon Ball is simplistic. It's not deep. It doesn't attempt to engage on any kind of intellectual level. It's pulpy action-adventure. Its plots are simple. Its characters are mostly static and MOST of the ones who do change subtly do so at the convenience of the plot rather than as a natural progression of their characters.

But what Toriyama does, he usually does well. He spins engaging adventure yarns and populates them with extremely interesting characters. And the tone is usually irreverent and lighthearted enough that you don't really care. In fact, a lot of philosophical hand wringing would probably diminish it. And in the cases near the end where Toriyama attempts to tell a more complicated story, the result is usually a lot of clunky exposition delivered... clunkily.

As said, there are a few characters, Mr. Satan most notably, who do go through believable character arcs that pay off in emotionally satisfying ways. And there are more characters who develop through a character arc in the beginning of their roles and then stay static for the rest of the series. So it happens sometimes but not usually terribly well.

So to the question: Dragon Ball has plot, to be sure. And it has some character development. But it's not exactly incorrect to criticize it for lacking in those areas. However, it's usually the kind of story that wouldn't necessitate or justify much more than what it has anyway. It is what it is.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Dragon Ball has a plot, it's just that by the time the series got to Z, it became a very repetitive....

1. A new antagonist is introduced
2. The new antagonist defeats or nearly defeats all of the protagonists
3. The protagonists undergo training to achieve some new power up or transformation
4. A rematch takes place between the protagonists and the antagonists
5. The protagonists defeat the antagonist and save the world
6. (This one is optional)The antagnoist becomes a protogonist

[Aoi]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents here. I'm 27. I love this show. And I try to just enjoy it and not overthink it.

Plot vs. Narrative:
Now: as a story, it's pretty "out there". Sometimes there are patterns to be noticed, and it may get (at times) a bit repetitive.

But, in terms of "plot", it's genius. The things Toriyama does to get us hooked are things I've never seen done in most shonen. The twist and turns. The unexpected idea of having Goku be late 1 day to the biggest fight in the show's history just opens up dozens of scenarios. It's exhilarating to experience. Even border line genius. It's the way Toriyama presents the story that's so damn intriguing. He knows how to get you hooked at the right time. Example: He knew exactly when to introduce the Ginyu Force to enhance the story. He doesn't mention their existence too early or too late. It's just perfect how he (unexpectedly) give the story a heavy dose of humour with these new characters. Even in Battle of Gods, I felt this.

A lot of people will tell you that some shows have amazing stories. But the "plot" (when and how story is developed) is usually very repetitive and predictable. Toriyama had (and has) a special instinct to change the story on a whim in order to improve/enhance it. And it's very well balanced. Even the most "shoe-horned" moments are justified because it leads to something great. IE: King Kai forgetting to send Goku back in time is convenient, but it leads to an A+ writing scenario. It's very similar to the reasons why the writers of "Breaking Bad" were so heavily praised. They improvised a lot in the moment and focused on what worked while writing the show.

The Dragon Ball story is masterfully written. You don't see many stories have the impact this one did on such a worldwide scale over so many years and generations. It just doesn't happen.

[TheGmGoken]

Most characters already got developed in part one. Piccolo finish his in Saiyan arc. All the new characters has been developed. Now DBZ plot was great early one. Then Cyborg arc happened. Boo arc however restored it. I mean if you connect Db and DBZ then everything makes sense and the plot is AVERAGE. However if you look at DBZ separately thrn yea the plot is not going to appear as much. Then again you should watch the whole story not a part of it.

[RocktheDragon]

I feel that there is actually a great deal of character development and plot. I feel like the characters really grow throughout the series and in turn we grow with them. It also helps that everyone's appearance changes incrementally to reflect this kind of character growth as well.

[thatdbzguy]

Most characters already got developed in part one. Piccolo finish his in Saiyan arc. All the new characters has been developed. Now DBZ plot was great early one. Then Cyborg arc happened. Boo arc however restored it. I mean if you connect Db and DBZ then everything makes sense and the plot is AVERAGE. However if you look at DBZ separately thrn yea the plot is not going to appear as much. Then again you should watch the whole story not a part of it.

Yeah, the Cyborg arc is abysmal. Wish Toriyama never wrote it.

[baneofdemon22]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents here. I'm 27. I love this show. And I try to just enjoy it and not overthink it.

Plot vs. Narrative:
Now: as a story, it's pretty "out there". Sometimes there are patterns to be noticed, and it may get (at times) a bit repetitive.

But, in terms of "plot", it's genius. The things Toriyama does to get us hooked are things I've never seen done in most shonen. The twist and turns. The unexpected idea of having Goku be late 1 day to the biggest fight in the show's history just opens up dozens of scenarios. It's exhilarating to experience. Even border line genius. It's the way Toriyama presents the story that's so damn intriguing. He knows how to get you hooked at the right time. Example: He knew exactly when to introduce the Ginyu Force to enhance the story. He doesn't mention their existence too early or too late. It's just perfect how he (unexpectedly) give the story a heavy dose of humour with these new characters. Even in Battle of Gods, I felt this.

A lot of people will tell you that some shows have amazing stories. But the "plot" (when and how story is developed) is usually very repetitive and predictable. Toriyama had (and has) a special instinct to change the story on a whim in order to improve/enhance it. And it's very well balanced. Even the most "shoe-horned" moments are justified because it leads to something great. IE: King Kai forgetting to send Goku back in time is convenient, but it leads to an A+ writing scenario. It's very similar to the reasons why the writers of "Breaking Bad" were so heavily praised. They improvised a lot in the moment and focused on what worked while writing the show.

The Dragon Ball story is masterfully written. You don't see many stories have the impact this one did on such a worldwide scale over so many years and generations. It just doesn't happen.

Fantastic explanation! I agree! The improvising is so helpful in making the story so compelling for me. It gives it a much more natural feel, which is very refreshing from a lot of TV shows that feel very contrived. I'm glad to see your connection with Breaking Bad, because when I was explaining my love of Dragonball Z to my family, I made parallels to Breaking Bad.

[Aoi]

Fantastic explanation! I agree! The improvising is so helpful in making the story so compelling for me. It gives it a much more natural feel, which is very refreshing from a lot of TV shows that feel very contrived. I'm glad to see your connection with Breaking Bad, because when I was explaining my love of Dragonball Z to my family, I made parallels to Breaking Bad.

"It gives it a much more natural feel, which is very refreshing from a lot of TV shows that feel very contrived."
^^
Hey man. You worded it perfectly for me. I thought I was the only one who had noticed that about Breaking Bad.

[DarkPrince_92]

Piccolo seems to have the most character development... for me at least. And with Battle of the Gods out... Vegeta is close second as far as characters taking a 180 turn.

[Mr. Piccolo]

I don't think the plot is terribly complex or groundbreaking but it serves its purpose for an action/adventure/comedy series.
I actually think Toriyama did a great job when it came to character development. As others have pointed out, the characters develop over time and there is a feeling that you are with them as they grow up.

However, I would argue that changing or growing is not really necessary for producing good characters. You can have a great character that barely changes. If Goku had stayed a kid and never married or had a family and just remained the way he was in the early part of the series, he would still be a great character.

Muten Roshi is an actual example of a great character from Dragon Ball with no transformative character arc to speak of. Other than his being surpassed by his pupils, his character largely stays the same. But Roshi is a terrific character and if Toriyama felt like it he could make a whole new series just based on Roshi’s funny personality.

[TheGmGoken]

Piccolo seems to have the most character development... for me at least. And with Battle of the Gods out... Vegeta is close second as far as characters taking a 180 turn.

Really? Piccolo had more than Vegeta? I mean Piccolo only had an arc full of development and he wasn't that "bad" so to speak. However Vegeta been developed since he died. He was the only good part of Cyborg arc and came to a closing with Boo arc. Then BoG made some extra shit for Vegeta. That's much more than Piccolo.

[DarkPrince_92]

Piccolo seems to have the most character development... for me at least. And with Battle of the Gods out... Vegeta is close second as far as characters taking a 180 turn.

Really? Piccolo had more than Vegeta? I mean Piccolo only had an arc full of development and he wasn't that "bad" so to speak. However Vegeta been developed since he died. He was the only good part of Cyborg arc and came to a closing with Boo arc. Then BoG made some extra shit for Vegeta. That's much more than Piccolo.

Piccolo was evil. Then he watered down to incredibly impatient. Then he fused with Kami and became the Piccolo with the most leveled head. But that's just my opinion. Vegeta's ambitions were unclear to after the Namek arc (aside from beating Goku). Although you're right about Vegeta, he's probably had the most drastic change in character.

[samuraix123]

Claiming that DBZ has no plot or character development isn't an uncommon thing on the internet. Chances are, you've come across a comment accusing DBZ of having no plot or character development.

Nope. you're the first.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Claiming that DBZ has no plot or character development isn't an uncommon thing on the internet. Chances are, you've come across a comment accusing DBZ of having no plot or character development.

Thats because a lot of western fans refuse to let go of the meme that says that or they only know DBZ from vague nostalgic memory. First off, kids cant comprehend plot thats why Barney has no plot. People only say it has no plot because it was of the kid shows they used to watch. That and the fact that the dub dumbed down most of the real plotlines with the goofy dialogue and characterization rewries. DBZ has a plot but even when you try to explain it to these knuckle-heads they won't accept it. They seem to only accept convoluted, overmelodramatic and overall messy storylines as plots because after Naruto, that became the standard for what people think of as a "plot." Simple, linear and easy to follow storylines = no plot to modern anime communities. People actually think Clannad has more plot than DBZ just because everyone is always crying.