RPG anyone?

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Dayspring
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Post by Dayspring » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:19 am

desirecampbell wrote:
Dayspring wrote:GOD, yes! Which is why I never got around to completing my RPGs over the years. Add the fact that the fad died down, table-top RPGs aren't popular, and the fact that I just want to play and not GM, and many attempts ended up falling flat.

As for Talsorian's gameplay... WTF was up with that?! I just visited their site. They blame most of it on FUNi and "everything will be explained in the next book." Turns out I'm only missing 1 book and not 2-3.
Ha ha. 'Everything will be explained in the next book.' More like 'everything will be contradicted in the next book.' I hate that system, it's based off of their 'fuzion' system which is alright for 'regular' super heroes but in DragonBall Z everyone is basically a demi god in kung fu outfits.
The simplest system I can think up is as follows:
-Speed determines if it hits or not; if atk+3d6 - speed+3d6 > 0, then calculate damage.
-Damage = atk+3d6 - def+3d6. For ki attacks, treat it like magic attacks and make it ki+3d6 - def+3d6.
-Body stat determines how fast you can heal (1 hp recovered for every body point you have during every round you're not in combat). It also determines how heavy your weighted cloathing can be, and how many gravities you can handle (ex: Body of 10 can move around normally in 10g).
-Mental stat determines when you learn a new technique. For Saiyans it also determines when you can control Oozaru (ex: Kamehameha can be learned when Mental = 3; when Mental is less than 5, Oozarus will attack at random, from 5-10 you have a 1/2 chance of attacking your opponent, above 10 you have complete control in Oozaru form).
-PL would be like in the manga: it's just for gaging an opponent's strength. PL would equal physical stats (ie: PL = atk+def+speed+body).
-In order to avoid godding and having people stranded in the afterlife, senzus, when in battle, act as the RPG's method of bringing someone back to life (you lose the fight, but don't die). That way you don't have to depend on someone to gather all the DBs and to wish you back once they do get them. Another way to keep ppl busy in the afterlife would be to have them fight the Afterlife Tournament; if you win, you reincarnate (aka: come back to life).

If ppl like this method, let me know and we'll work out transformations and experience gaining.
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Post by Alchemist Ed » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:55 pm

Wow, Dayspring, that sounds really fun. I think I'll give it a shot.

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Post by *PINHEAD* » Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:23 pm

Hmm...sounds interesting. I never got into RPG's, though. Never really took the time to understand what's going on. This is coming from the guy who never figured out how to play the Pokemon card game.
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Post by Dayspring » Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:24 pm

The only problem is that I can't figure out how to distribute experience. How is it done in D&D? Maybe I can adapt something off it.
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Post by desirecampbell » Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:46 pm

Dayspring wrote:The only problem is that I can't figure out how to distribute experience. How is it done in D&D? Maybe I can adapt something off it.
In D&D experience is given out based on how strong the opponent was (either the single monster's 'level' or the group of monster's 'encounter level'), how strong you are (or your group, on average, is), and how many people in your group.

It's actually a lookup chart for each 'level' - that is, the correlation (mathmatically) isn't easily seen.

It's calculated like so:
1. A character (player or monster) of level 'x' is twice as strong as a character of level 'x-2'. IE, a monster at level 12 is twice as strong as a player at level 10.

2. The 'encounter level' of a single monster is equal to it's 'level'. But the 'encounter level' increases by 2 for every extra monster of the same level. IE, one 'level' 10 monster is an EL of 10, but three level 10 monsters are an EL of 14.

3. The average adventure party (4 players) should 'level up' after 13.3 encounters at their average EL.

4. The experience given by an EL of 'x' level is divided evenly to each player. IE, in a 4-man group each gets a fourth of thetotal experience gained from the encounter.


So, the experience thing is actually really complicated if you make a 'level' based game. In my RPG I use a basic point-buy system, where you have specific statistics that can be increased directly from the experience points gain from battle (or training) and those stats determine how strong you are (there's another stat that's calculated from your other stats, that determines your over-all strength which is used to determine EXP gains from battle).


Trust me: making an RPG is a lot of work.

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Post by Dayspring » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:13 pm

Crap.

I really want to avoid using the official RPG's (max PL of total ennemies)/(max PL of party) x10. All it takes is one strong character to completely fuck up the system. Or if you're evenly matched all you'd get is 10 points? Bah! That's like saying Goku vs Tenshinhan (22nd budoukai) got the same exp as when SSJ2 Goku fought SSJ2 Majin Vegeta.

I'm thinking PL ranges give you x amount of experience, but that doesn't seem too good either. 1-10 = 1 point, 11-20 = 2 points, ..., 991-1000 = 100 points, etc; basically using intervals of 10 as equalling 1 point each. But then how many points should the person need before allowing them to increase in strength?

An example would be Radditz vs Goku+Piccolo. Radditz would have fought Goku (416) and Piccolo (408) for a PL total of 830 (420+410). Divided by 10 gets Radditz 83 experience points. Consequently, Radditz had a PL of 1,200, so that gets Goku and Piccolo 120 points to divide between the two of them, getting them 60 points each since they fought him as a team.

Should I somehow work out a level system to determine how experience is needed, or just let the points gained = a stat boost? IE: Radditz now has 83 points to distribute amongst his stats as he sees fit. His new PL is therefore 1,283. The only problem is if you fight Freeza with a PL of 1 and he doesn't kill you, you'd walk away with a PL of 53,001 (530,000/10 + 1).

Should 10 experience points be required, then, to make one PL point to add to your stats? If so, Radditz's 83 points could end up increasing his PL by only 8.

For training it could rely on your body stat, or introduce a strength stat: training under harmless conditions with no extra weights or gravities = 1 experience point. Each 10 kg of weighted cloathing = 1 experience point extra, and each additional gravity = 1 exp point. IE: Goku trains on Kaio's planet, therefore he gains 20 experience points that day, increasing his PL by 2. 2 PL times 365 days = only 730 PL gained after a whole year, so we can justify why Saiyans are so damned strong, and explain Kaio's training as being spiritual as well (ie: cop-out for giving more experience than what a normal Saiyan training on planet Vegeta would get).

It would rely on your body/strength stat since you can only increase your training methods according to how strong you are. IE: Strength of 3 means you can train under 1-3g only, but if you have weighted clothing on, you need to take it off if at 3g. If you have weighted clothing of 100kg, you wouldn't be able to wear it at all yet.
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Post by desirecampbell » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:31 pm

Ha ha ha ha ha! That's nothing! I've been doing this for six years, experience is the easy part.

The best idea is this: Have basic stats that can be increased directly with XP points. Like "fighting" "power" "evasion" "Hit Points" etc... and have a separate statistic that shows how strong a person is, that is not increased through XP points but calculated from the other stats.

Then use the same kind of calculation that RTalsoran uses: [ (how strong he is) / (how strong you are) ] x 10. (or something other than 10 if you think it should be more, but pick one number and keep it through-out the game)

And, in my opinion, the formula is pretty good. I'll just copy and paste my reasoning :P
"In DragonBall, fighting only seemed to make the characters stronger when they were relatively weak (before the Frieza saga), and extensive training (usually alone) took over as the predominant method of getting stronger. This is why training can give varying levels of experience boosts while battle gives the same amount of experience all the time (as you get stronger, battle strengthens you less and less). "

As the series progresses we see less strength gained through battle and more strength gained from training (except of course the extra strength boost when a saiyan gets hurt).

Trust me - making an RPG is really hard. Especially one for something as complex as dragonball.

My suggestion is to look at my rules and work off of those. I'm pretty confident in them and, hey, I could always use someone's input one them. :)

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Post by Dayspring » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:50 pm

desirecampbell wrote:Ha ha ha ha ha! That's nothing! I've been doing this for six years, experience is the easy part.
Dang it. :P
desirecampbell wrote:The best idea is this: Have basic stats that can be increased directly with XP points. Like "fighting" "power" "evasion" "Hit Points" etc... and have a separate statistic that shows how strong a person is, that is not increased through XP points but calculated from the other stats.
Stats:
-Attack (fighting-offense)
-Defense (fighting-defense)
-Ki (Magic-offense)
-Body (see above posts)
-Mental (see above posts)
-Speed (evasion)
-Hit Points
-PL = separate stat that shows how strong person is, calculated by adding up all other stats together.
desirecampbell wrote:Then use the same kind of calculation that RTalsoran uses: [ (how strong he is) / (how strong you are) ] x 10. (or something other than 10 if you think it should be more, but pick one number and keep it through-out the game)

And, in my opinion, the formula is pretty good. I'll just copy and paste my reasoning :P
"In DragonBall, fighting only seemed to make the characters stronger when they were relatively weak (before the Freeza saga), and extensive training (usually alone) took over as the predominant method of getting stronger. This is why training can give varying levels of experience boosts while battle gives the same amount of experience all the time (as you get stronger, battle strengthens you less and less). "

As the series progresses we see less strength gained through battle and more strength gained from training (except of course the extra strength boost when a saiyan gets hurt).
Wah. I disagree, though (to an extent). :cry:
desirecampbell wrote:Trust me - making an RPG is really hard. Especially one for something as complex as dragonball.
Tell me about it.
desirecampbell wrote:My suggestion is to look at my rules and work off of those. I'm pretty confident in them and, hey, I could always use someone's input one them. :)
Will do.
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Post by Rocketman » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:54 pm

Dayspring wrote:For training it could rely on your body stat, or introduce a strength stat: training under harmless conditions with no extra weights or gravities = 1 experience point. Each 10 kg of weighted cloathing = 1 experience point extra, and each additional gravity = 1 exp point. IE: Goku trains on Kaio's planet, therefore he gains 20 experience points that day, increasing his PL by 2. 2 PL times 365 days = only 730 PL gained after a whole year, so we can justify why Saiyans are so damned strong, and explain Kaio's training as being spiritual as well (ie: cop-out for giving more experience than what a normal Saiyan training on planet Vegeta would get)..
But, if you gave Goku all 20 of the exp points as power, he'd gain 7,300 PL in a year, putting him at 7,716 when the Saiyans arrive, which is very close to his real PL of 8000.

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Post by Dayspring » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:32 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Dayspring wrote:For training it could rely on your body stat, or introduce a strength stat: training under harmless conditions with no extra weights or gravities = 1 experience point. Each 10 kg of weighted cloathing = 1 experience point extra, and each additional gravity = 1 exp point. IE: Goku trains on Kaio's planet, therefore he gains 20 experience points that day, increasing his PL by 2. 2 PL times 365 days = only 730 PL gained after a whole year, so we can justify why Saiyans are so damned strong, and explain Kaio's training as being spiritual as well (ie: cop-out for giving more experience than what a normal Saiyan training on planet Vegeta would get)..
But, if you gave Goku all 20 of the exp points as power, he'd gain 7,300 PL in a year, putting him at 7,716 when the Saiyans arrive, which is very close to his real PL of 8000.
... THE SYSTEM WORKS!!! :o
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Post by Rocketman » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:39 am

Huzzah!

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Post by Dayspring » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:47 am

Also, Goku's real PL was 924 (or 928, I forget), and against Nappa was really "over 8,000," ergo his PL would 8,124-8, so really, really works! :D

I'm so sad. :lol:
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Post by Xyex » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:52 am

I really want to avoid using the official RPG's (max PL of total ennemies)/(max PL of party) x10. All it takes is one strong character to completely fuck up the system. Or if you're evenly matched all you'd get is 10 points? Bah! That's like saying Goku vs Tenshinhan (22nd budoukai) got the same exp as when SSJ2 Goku fought SSJ2 Majin Vegeta.
Ah, but in some RPGs that would be the case. The ammount of EXP needed to level up is Static. The ammount of EXP gained from the same monster is Dynamic. .hack is a prime example. You always need 1,000 EXP to reach the next level. The greater the difference between your level and the monster's level the more EXP you get off of them. If you're a lot stronger you only get 1 per monster.
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Post by Dayspring » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:40 pm

Xyex wrote:
I really want to avoid using the official RPG's (max PL of total ennemies)/(max PL of party) x10. All it takes is one strong character to completely fuck up the system. Or if you're evenly matched all you'd get is 10 points? Bah! That's like saying Goku vs Tenshinhan (22nd budoukai) got the same exp as when SSJ2 Goku fought SSJ2 Majin Vegeta.
Ah, but in some RPGs that would be the case. The ammount of EXP needed to level up is Static. The ammount of EXP gained from the same monster is Dynamic. .hack is a prime example. You always need 1,000 EXP to reach the next level. The greater the difference between your level and the monster's level the more EXP you get off of them. If you're a lot stronger you only get 1 per monster.
So which should I go with? .hack style, and make it 100 EXP before you go up a PL point?
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Post by Panda » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:09 pm

Sure I'm in. Never played one before though so I'm sure I'll be a tad slow.

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Post by Dayspring » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:31 pm

Panda wrote:Sure I'm in. Never played one before though so I'm sure I'll be a tad slow.
Don't worry, we all will. We're still working out a system. AND SOMEONE ELSE HAS TO GM IT!!!
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Post by desirecampbell » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:40 pm

Dayspring wrote:
Panda wrote:Sure I'm in. Never played one before though so I'm sure I'll be a tad slow.
Don't worry, we all will. We're still working out a system. AND SOMEONE ELSE HAS TO GM IT!!!
I'd love to DM it (I love to DM :D) but people hate my methods (no mercy) so I don't know if I'm the one for this.

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Post by Rocketman » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:16 pm

What about Zenkais?

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Post by desirecampbell » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:34 pm

Rocketman wrote:What about Zenkais?
Alright - I feel really stupid asking, but I've been seeing it all over the forum. So, what's a 'zenkai'?

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Post by Rocketman » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:02 pm

desirecampbell wrote:
Rocketman wrote:What about Zenkais?
Alright - I feel really stupid asking, but I've been seeing it all over the forum. So, what's a 'zenkai'?
The jump in power a Saiyan gets when healed from a near-death experience.

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