Complaint regarding Naruto (comparison with DB filler)

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Adnan
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Complaint regarding Naruto (comparison with DB filler)

Post by Adnan » Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:53 pm

I don't know about you guys but I'm getting sick of Naruto filler... I wish they'd stop for 6 months instead of risking cancellation of the show altogether by putting out this crap.

Yeah I know it's off topic but after episode 158 I have to vent...

In Dragonball and Dragonball Z, TOEI was smart enough to put a little bit of filler here and there to drag things out. Of course the filler sucked at times and was good at times but they were strategically placed between all the good stuff so they were minor irritations in the overall picture. For some reason, Studio Perriot did not do this and now that they've caught up to the manga too quickly, there's about 35 filler episodes to put up with before they go back to the manga. And I don't know how long an anime can last (ex: Kenshin) after almost 2 seasons of just filler.

Which leads to a question I have also. If an anime studio doesn't want to spend the extra money on good writers for filler and if they don't to put up canon episodes now as this would be lead to competition with the manga, why not just put the show on hiatus for 6 months instead of risking having the show cancelled altogether by airing 6 months of crap?

So I kinda made it a little on-topic now :D. Discuss.
Last edited by Adnan on Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:27 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Post by Tanooki Kuribo » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:00 pm

Yea...yea, we really can't talk about that here.

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Re: Complaint regarding Naruto (comparison with DB filler)

Post by lost in thought » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:37 pm

Adnan wrote:I don't know about you guys but I'm getting sick of Naruto filler... I wish they'd stop for 6 months instead of risking cancellation of the show altogether by putting out this crap.

Yeah I know it's off topic but after episode 158 I have to vent...

In Dragonball and Dragonball Z, TOEI was smart enough to put a little bit of filler here and there to drag things out. Of course the filler sucked at times and was good at times but they were strategically placed between all the good stuff so they were minor irritations in the overall picture. For some reason, Studio Perriot did not do this and now that they've caught up to the manga too quickly, there's about 35 filler episodes to put up with before they go back to the manga. And I don't know how long an anime can last (ex: Kenshin) after almost 2 seasons of just filler.

Which leads to a question I have also. If an anime studio doesn't want to spend the extra money on good writers for filler and if they don't to put up canon episodes now as this would be lead to competition with the manga, why not just put the show on hiatus for 6 months instead of risking having the show cancelled altogether by airing 6 months of crap?

So I kinda made it a little on-topic now :D. Discuss.
Like Tanooki said, we're not really supposed to discuss other serials on this board.

But as far as your question goes: The filler is usually caused by a lack of canon material for a series to go by, so the writers make up their own little adventures for characters for the time being. Sometimes the filler can go on for awhile, depending on how long their suggested arc will last, and other times it can go on for the span of the series. Now as far as going on hiatus, well it depends if the writers and executives really want to move back into the manga story, or if they want to keep making their own.
I think in the end it really comes down to a money issue, if they aren't airing they aren't making any.

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Post by Adnan » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:44 pm

Yeah but then they should've done like with DBZ and spread out the filler instead of letting it accumulate into 2 seasons worth of non-stop filler.... :(

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Re: Complaint regarding Naruto (comparison with DB filler)

Post by Conan the SSJ » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:49 pm

Adnan wrote:I don't know about you guys but I'm getting sick of Naruto filler... I wish they'd stop for 6 months instead of risking cancellation of the show altogether by putting out this crap.

Yeah I know it's off topic but after episode 158 I have to vent...

In Dragonball and Dragonball Z, TOEI was smart enough to put a little bit of filler here and there to drag things out. Of course the filler sucked at times and was good at times but they were strategically placed between all the good stuff so they were minor irritations in the overall picture. For some reason, Studio Perriot did not do this and now that they've caught up to the manga too quickly, there's about 35 filler episodes to put up with before they go back to the manga. And I don't know how long an anime can last (ex: Kenshin) after almost 2 seasons of just filler.

Which leads to a question I have also. If an anime studio doesn't want to spend the extra money on good writers for filler and if they don't to put up canon episodes now as this would be lead to competition with the manga, why not just put the show on hiatus for 6 months instead of risking having the show cancelled altogether by airing 6 months of crap?

So I kinda made it a little on-topic now :D. Discuss.
Okay, Naruto has nothing to do with the Dragonball trilogy, it was done by a different anime studio, why you're complaigning about its filler on a Dragonball messege board ... Umm, whatever. I'm not a mod, so I'm not gonna give any warnings. But I wouldn't be surprised if EX made a locking stop.
Last edited by Conan the SSJ on Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Last Son of Krypton » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:52 pm

Naruto on a DBZ board? This will be nothing but trouble. Like everyone else has said this sort of thing is not to be discussed.

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Post by tarsonis » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:19 pm

Normally I'd stay out of this sort of thing, as others have pointed out this is not the place to discuss this, but I'm going to put in my two cents before it's locked. I have no problem with the Naruto filler if it's written well, as some of it has been in the past. I'm probably the only person that enjoyed episode 158 though. Yeah of course I'd prefer stuff that was in the manga over it, but I still think the episode was better than the last few eps of the Raiga arc or the Tea Country arc. An example of a good filler arc is when they were searching for the bug, partly because of the character development for Hinata.

So it's either filler or no Naruto on the air at all. Personally, I'd take the former option.

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Post by Xyex » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:28 pm

Instead of making pointless posts how about contributing? This thread isn't about just Naruto, but filler in general, and DB was refrenced. All the rest of you are doing is making worthless posts.

Anyway, filler isn't as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Sure, it can be annoying, especially if it's really bad, but it is needed. Since most animes are made during the run of the manga they have to try and hold back from catching it. In the case of Toei and DB/Z they spaced it out. With the makers of Naruto they didn't, tried to keep the show as fillerless as possible.

Now, about putting a show on hiatus, BAD idea. You take it off for six months to let the manga get ahead and you're likely to lose interest in the anime. Even in Japan there are people who watch the anime as opposed to reading the manga. Reason being, anime on TV is free, manga from a store is not.

This is why a reason I prefer the anime as well, not the only but one. If you take the anime off you'll lose viewers. They wont be interested when it comes back maybe, or they'll have moved on to reading the manga instead since it's still going. However, keep the anime running with filler eps and arcs and you'll keep your viewers. Sure, some will leave to get back to the main story by picking up the manga now and then, but you'll keep most of your viewers.

It's why DBZ extended the SSJ Goku Vs. Freeza fight and created the Garlic Jr. arc. Sure, they could have stuck to JUST the manga, the cannon, and stopped the anime for a few months every time they caught up. But would they have kept ratings? Kept viewers? Nope. The anime would have died off. Maybe not right after the first hiatus, or even the second, but it would have died. Same holds true to all animes.

And long filler arcs do not a show cancel. Your example of Kenshin is a different matter. That wasn't filler. The anime decided to go it's own way, seperate from that of the manga. It was not filler but divergent story never intended to return to the manga. Filler wont cause a show to be cancled. Filler gives it an extended life, if anything. Putting a show on hiatus, however, is sure death for it.
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Post by Dayspring » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:41 pm

Why not repeats? What's the Japanese view on that? It seems to me that filler is what Japan uses when we air repeats.
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Post by *PINHEAD* » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:15 pm

Putting a show on hiatus risks the audience possibly losing interest. Repeats would be good, I guess. But for the sake of a series' continuity, filler is good.
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Post by Xyex » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:03 am

Dayspring wrote:Why not repeats? What's the Japanese view on that? It seems to me that filler is what Japan uses when we air repeats.
I never thought of that. That's a pretty good comparison I think. Except that when we make something based on something else, we either wait until that something else is finished or go off on our own. The X-Men cartoons and TMNT for example. Or even Harry Potter. We just do that in bits until it's done. Though once all 7 are over I wouldn't doubt that a series might come out. That's how we avoid filler...
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Post by desirecampbell » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:22 am

Xyex wrote:
Dayspring wrote:Why not repeats? What's the Japanese view on that? It seems to me that filler is what Japan uses when we air repeats.
I never thought of that. That's a pretty good comparison I think. Except that when we make something based on something else, we either wait until that something else is finished or go off on our own. The X-Men cartoons and TMNT for example. Or even Harry Potter. We just do that in bits until it's done. Though once all 7 are over I wouldn't doubt that a series might come out. That's how we avoid filler...
But we don't avoid bad writing (the new TMNT "shell-cel"? I almost puked).

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Post by Super Sonic » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:37 am

desirecampbell wrote:
Xyex wrote:
Dayspring wrote:Why not repeats? What's the Japanese view on that? It seems to me that filler is what Japan uses when we air repeats.
I never thought of that. That's a pretty good comparison I think. Except that when we make something based on something else, we either wait until that something else is finished or go off on our own. The X-Men cartoons and TMNT for example. Or even Harry Potter. We just do that in bits until it's done. Though once all 7 are over I wouldn't doubt that a series might come out. That's how we avoid filler...
But we don't avoid bad writing (the new TMNT "shell-cel"? I almost puked).
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Post by Jerseymilk » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:08 am

It's extremely rare in Japan for a series to even be repeated a second time around. Basically as soon as a series is over, there's another one all set to take it's place. It's also rare for an anime series to have more than one season, which shows how popular DB was.
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Post by Duo » Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:14 am

The Dragonball / Z Filler Situation could have been avoided if Toriyama-Sama had waited until he was about 15 Volumes in, then he probably could have held a good enough lead to where Toei would have caught up just near the end...Thus would have spawned a much better adaptation/interpretation of the Manga and genuinly better product.

Though, it's a pity they didn't have CGI until Movie 12, cuz' then the Anime would have looked MUCH better.

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Post by Magnaboss » Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:18 am

Duo wrote:The Dragonball / Z Filler Situation could have been avoided if Toriyama-Sama had waited until he was about 15 Volumes in, then he probably could have held a good enough lead to where Toei would have caught up just near the end...Thus would have spawned a much better adaptation/interpretation of the Manga and genuinly better product.

Though, it's a pity they didn't have CGI until Movie 12, cuz' then the Anime would have looked MUCH better.
CG only looks as good as the budget that allows it and the people who use it. It would have just meant DBZ might have looked a little cleaner, but overall, earlier CG-mixed TV anime looks pretty nasty anyway :/

Generally, when a series is super popular, you want to adapt it straight away, otherwise you open yourself up to bidding more and more or possibly loosing the contract to it to another studio.

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Post by Duo » Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 am

Magnaboss wrote:
Duo wrote:The Dragonball / Z Filler Situation could have been avoided if Toriyama-Sama had waited until he was about 15 Volumes in, then he probably could have held a good enough lead to where Toei would have caught up just near the end...Thus would have spawned a much better adaptation/interpretation of the Manga and genuinly better product.

Though, it's a pity they didn't have CGI until Movie 12, cuz' then the Anime would have looked MUCH better.
CG only looks as good as the budget that allows it and the people who use it. It would have just meant DBZ might have looked a little cleaner, but overall, earlier CG-mixed TV anime looks pretty nasty anyway :/

Generally, when a series is super popular, you want to adapt it straight away, otherwise you open yourself up to bidding more and more or possibly loosing the contract to it to another studio.
Toriyama has the say in who and when they would have got it, not the studio's. I think that it would have been far wiser to wait, and Toriyama should have been much more careful with whom he allowed to adapt it and how they did it. I don't think it would have lost popularity for being delayed - it loses much more popularity because of the ramifications of filler and overly stretched out scenes.

I know this because I have many friends who gave up on the Anime because it took too freakin' long, who later fell in love with the Manga.

Also, Movie 12 proves that Toei could have done amazing things with CGI. That is probably the single most gorgeous ANYTHING put together by Toei animation.

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Post by B-kun » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:47 am

Duo, movie 12 came out in 95. DB started way back in 86. Can you imagine what the CG would've been like then?
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Post by DB_Fan » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:12 pm

B-kun wrote:Duo, movie 12 came out around, what, 97-ish? DB started way back in 86. Can you imagine what the CG would've been like then?
Movie 12 came in 1995. GT ended in 1997.

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Post by Dayspring » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:14 pm

DB_Fan wrote:
B-kun wrote:Duo, movie 12 came out around, what, 97-ish? DB started way back in 86. Can you imagine what the CG would've been like then?
Movie 12 came in 1995. GT ended in 1997.
Was movie 13 also in '95?
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