Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

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Kojiro Sasaki
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by Kojiro Sasaki » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:54 pm

AjayLikesGaming wrote:Just spent the better part of an hour taking a pretty close look at the Japanese audio for these sets. I think myself and many others were quite quick to jump to 'this is just EQ you can do in VLC'.

It's actually quite impressive. Those highs are really softened up nicely and whilst the louder screams do still pierce quite a lot, it's certainly a great improvement over what I'm listening to on my Dragon Boxes right now.
This was the first thing that came to my mind when I watched youtube video with 128kbps mp3 audio track: Are you calling this a rema... wait a second... this sounds a little bit to good to be a cheap equalisation. Hell knows, maybe they also rescanned soundtrack?
http://www.dft-film.com/downloads/datas ... asheet.pdf

What about synchronization, pitch, wow and flutter? Did you noticed some differences? If it differs from Dragon Box, it's possible that we are dealing with a rescanned optical track.

I do not have any lossless samples, so I cannot tell everything about frequency response.
UltimateHammerBro wrote:Oh my. Disappearing lines again?
If I remember correctly, this scene originally has lines like these. Of course, it looks way better with grain intact.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by ErikB » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:59 pm

If that is a case of the filtering causing disappearing lines, then at least it doesn't look as severe as it was before. However, with how small those breaks are, it could also just be an instace actual ink breaks present on the original film.

In fact, here's a similar image from the Level set (well, a rip of the Level set which I'm now noticing could have been encoded better):
Image
Far as I can tell, this is the same cel but on a different frame (background is positioned differently). It looks to have the same breaks in the linework.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by Ajay » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:36 pm

Kojiro Sasaki wrote: This was the first thing that came to my mind when I watched youtube video with 128kbps mp3 audio track: Are you calling this a rema... wait a second... this sounds a little bit to good to be a cheap equalisation. Hell knows, maybe they also rescanned soundtrack?
http://www.dft-film.com/downloads/datas ... asheet.pdf

What about synchronization, pitch, wow and flutter? Did you noticed some differences? If it differs from Dragon Box, it's possible that we are dealing with a rescanned optical track.

I do not have any lossless samples, so I cannot tell everything about frequency response.
Pitch seems to be the same. I'm not noticing anything massively different from what is on the Dragon Boxes. It just sounds like someone came along, waved their magic wand, and added a new level of clarity to the track. Very impressed.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:00 pm

AjayLikesGaming wrote:Pitch seems to be the same. I'm not noticing anything massively different from what is on the Dragon Boxes. It just sounds like someone came along, waved their magic wand, and added a new level of clarity to the track. Very impressed.
It's an improvement but the Season BDs would've been far better suited with the Broadcast Audio rather than the Muffled Audio, still, since that's not available it's better than nothing.

A new review on Amazon.com done by a US Dragonbox Z owner:
Coming from a dragon box owner this release truly shocked me it is that good. So i like many other users was bothered by the 4:3 removal and instead a cropped version of it (16:9) but let me tell you i just received this today watch a good 5 episodes and i am stung on good of a job they did the clarity is insane the content that is cut off isnt honestly that bad. the majority of their cuts didn't really impact the content at all it is really rare to see someones head cut in half. from my memory this prob only happened once within the first 5 episodes i saw. Trust me buy this and you definitely will not be disappointed. It is DBZ at its Greatest.
Even the "purists" like it and to be honest, there's nothing wrong enjoying this release as it has modernised DBZ.
FUNimation 2015 Releases I want:
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by KingofWisdom » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:14 pm

Maybe it's petty, but it's hard for me to take a review seriously when it's that poorly written. And one positive review from a guy with the Dragon Boxes doesn't prove that everyone loves the new remaster.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by kidglov3s » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:16 pm

I would disagree that someone on board with the kind of revisionism at work here (not to mention the absence of the original title cards, OP/EP/NEP), or a modified aspect ratio of anything, can be considered a purist.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:18 pm

KingofWisdom wrote:Maybe it's petty, but it's hard for me to take a review seriously when it's that poorly written. And one positive review from a guy with the Dragon Boxes doesn't prove that everyone loves the new remaster.
Reviews are just opinions, in other words.

Of course it doesn't prove that everyone will like it, some will, some won't.

I've been complaining to Amazon.com since 2010-2011 that their review section is highly flawed and to this day they haven't done shit about it, but well, since I reported DBZ Season 1 BD to Amazon it seems to actually have done something at least.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by Tanooki Kuribo » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:20 pm

KingofWisdom wrote:... it's hard for me to take a review seriously when it's that poorly written.
Same here. Also, it seems to that when someone out there writes something positive about this release, the people who do like this release always point to that in an effort to prove they're not crazy. With that said - I really don't mind if you like this set. As long as you're educated on the matter, and know why it looks the way it looks, then hey, I can't stop you. I think I have a problem with people just picking this up and thinking this is how it's suppose to to look.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by KingofWisdom » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:24 pm

Yeah, my problem with this release is that people who don't know any better will pick it up, and if they were just a little more informed, they might have realized that this is not a quality release. Basically, FUNimation is taking advantage of their naive fans because most anime series don't require this level of research on what to pick up. Even worse, though, as stated above, is if new fans get into the series with this release and think it's supposed to look this way.

It's not even a good modernization. It doesn't look like computer animation, it just looks like DBZ's received some bad cosmetic surgery. That shot of Piccolo still looks less bad, imo, on the first Orange Brick. It's just like people said in this thread, this new remaster is only better for not having issues all over the map. But it's still a bright, shiny turd.
Last edited by KingofWisdom on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"Those transformations insane,
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)

"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by TheAldella » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:49 pm

KingofWisdom wrote:Yeah, my problem with this release is that people who don't know any better will pick it up, and if they were just a little more informed, they might have realized that this is not a quality release. Basically, FUNimation is taking advantage of their naive fans because most anime series don't require this level of research on what to pick up.
Just turn down the brightness/contrast and you've got a somewhat nice release. It doesn't seem we'd be losing anything important. Heads aren't missing like they used to be and neither are lines.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by GarrettCRW » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:55 pm

I hope these Blu-rays look better in motion, because the stills look extremely paint-boxed.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by darkknightkryta » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:01 am

ect5150 wrote:
darkknightkryta wrote:(The Dragon Box holds up for that season too; Bulma's hair is mostly blue).
Interestingly enough, looking at cel animation shows Bulma's hair isn't supposed to be blue though. We covered this in an older thread and someone pointed this out.

I'll copy/paste the pictures found by AnimeMaakuo in the Spoiler tag below--
But I seem to remember FUNI's Level Sets having her hair more blue-ish. I never seen anyone bring up an original broadcast recording to show her hair though. That is still something I would like to see.
Bulma's hair was never supposed to be green though. I'm curious about if animation cells fade as well since if you look at most of the cells Bluma's hair is indeed the proper blue. Only a few of the shots are green. Other than VHS recordings and Betas given to other countries/broadcasters, the Rock the Dragon set is probably the closest to the original broadcast. It was digitized early enough and the colours in the set match the colours of the levels (Which was colour corrected based on colour displacement of the film). Though that's the last I'll talk about that since that's for another thread. My point was that he footage they use for season 4,5, and most of 6 is really bad when it comes to pinks, since it wasn't colour corrected. Those sets on these new Blu-rays are going to look pretty bad if my suspicion of them not colour correcting this set is true (Even in the Goku vs Vegeta scene there's quite a lot of pink overcast in the background vs what was in the levels).

On another note; I found this from a poster on Blu-ray.com's forum on the set.

"So why all the filtering? Here's a dirty little secret: The easiest way to clean up gnarly looking film footage is to slather it with DVNR to make the frames more "consistent", and then drop on automated filters like judder stabilization and scratch repair; smoothing the grain makes it easier to pick out a sudden "shake" or "spot" from a mathematical point of view. Heavily processed sources are easier to manipulate, and you'd be shocked just how effective "automated" processes can be with a little tweaking and a proper understanding of what your source is. (Fun Fact: 16mm cartoons are NOTHING like 35mm live action films from a processing standpoint.)

If you have a timeline with all of these individual filters - stabilization, scratch repair and so on - you can create a test render proxy and then have someone watch the episode and look for scenes where scratch repair is doing more harm than good. They can go back to the timeline, key out that particular scene, and then either repair it manually or leave it as-is. This is a MUCH less expensive option than having literally every hair and spec removed manually, and - if your staff knows what to look for - can be done without any major artifacts."

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:33 am

darkknightkryta wrote: On another note; I found this from a poster on Blu-ray.com's forum on the set.

*snip*
That certainly isn't wrong; he Level Set's being too meticulous to produce was an explanation for their cancellation, not an excuse. Beyond that it's just reiterating that the massive noise reduction is easier.
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Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by GarrettCRW » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:33 am

DVNR has a nasty habit of erasing the black outlines in cartoons, though. Even if He-Man and the Masters of the Universe and other Filmation shows on DVD weren't time-compressed, their sets would be garbage because all of the DVNR during quick pans and when the camera shakes (and the camera shakes a lot in Filmation cartoons by design). The Chuck Jones-directed Tom And Jerry shorts on DVD have the same issue, and from what I've seen, it's one of the reasons why the Orange Boxes suck. Letting that process automate for any animated film or TV show is something I'd be keen to avoid (and if the purchasing audience is savvy, they will notice and raise a huge stink about DVNR).

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by KingofWisdom » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:43 am

GarrettCRW wrote:... if the purchasing audience is savvy, they will notice and raise a huge stink about DVNR).
The average DBZ fan is not savvy and will eat this up. Furthermore, the average user rating on Amazon will be up to around 4 stars in the next few months, and it'll be just like the Orange Bricks. Most people will think they look great.
"Those transformations insane,
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)

"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by GarrettCRW » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:46 am

Point taken.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by darkknightkryta » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:06 am

BlazingFiddlesticks wrote:
darkknightkryta wrote: On another note; I found this from a poster on Blu-ray.com's forum on the set.

*snip*
That certainly isn't wrong; he Level Set's being too meticulous to produce was an explanation for their cancellation, not an excuse. Beyond that it's just reiterating that the massive noise reduction is easier.
Yeah but no one ever bothered to say why all that noise reduction would have made an automated process for scratch removal possible. I mean, it didn't help before and I find it interesting that it worked now. Plus I find video processing fascinating, getting insights into what Funimation did with this set intrigues me.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by Daimo-Rukiri » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:39 am

darkknightkryta wrote:Bulma's hair was never supposed to be green though.
It depends on how it is stored, if stored well it should hold up. Look at books from the 1700s that were stored well, while the pages are slightly yellow the book itself is intact, and look at art that is centuries old! I don't think cells from the late 80s-90s would fade that quickly.

These sets are watchable, I'll watch them! but by no means is this release presented correctly, it looks pretty but that's about it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by final_flash » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:50 am

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by Corpsecreate » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:18 am

Blu-Ray
Image

My Filtered Dbox encode with free software
Image

My Filtered Dbox encode with free software (no brightness/contrast alterations and 'safe' colour edits)
Image


Blu-Ray
Image

My Filtered Dbox encode with free software
Image

My Filtered Dbox encode with free software (no brightness/contrast alterations and 'safe' colour edits)
Image

Considering what can be done with free tools and a 480p video source, the Blu-rays do not impress me at all.

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