Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

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final_flash
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by final_flash » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:00 pm

Puto wrote:Umm... except that's what FUNimation are doing anyway, they're just doing it before putting it on the disc.
1080p is 1920x1080 lines of resolution vertical and horizontal. Which is widescreen. The Blu ray sets are already widescreen so the picture is up scaled to the full 1080p. The level set is up scaled to 1080p but a 4:3 aspect ratio including the black bars. If you were to zoom the level set so you don't have the black bars you actually take the resolution of the picture down a lot. I'm pretty sure about this.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by falle » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:09 pm

final_flash wrote:
Puto wrote:Umm... except that's what FUNimation are doing anyway, they're just doing it before putting it on the disc.
1080p is 1920x1080 lines of resolution vertical and horizontal. Which is widescreen. The Blu ray sets are already widescreen so the picture is up scaled to the full 1080p. The level set is up scaled to 1080p but a 4:3 aspect ratio including the black bars. If you were to zoom the level set so you don't have the black bars you actually take the resolution of the picture down a lot. I'm pretty sure about this.
And right you are. But remember, the Season and the Level sets are NOT upscaled. If anything, the Season sets are accurate presentation of the 16mm film whereas the Level sets are downscaled from a 2K scan!
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by lansing » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:27 pm

final_flash wrote:
Actually TVs dont crop the picture. They stretch a 4:3 picture to 16:9 which will make the characters look fat. The cropping is one of the only things this release does good. They OB used center cropping which was automatically the center of the pic. The Blu ray set use selective cropping where they pick and chose how they crop it. So important parts of the scene don't get cut out. But every thing else you are right about.
TV has a zoom mode that's make specially for 4:3 video, scaled the width until the black bar were cut off on the two sides, while keeping aspect ratio by cropping the top and bottom part of the video, which is exactly what these blu ray are doing right now.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by final_flash » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:30 pm

I watched DBZ back in the 90s lol Always thought it would be cool to have DBZ in HD. Then Kai came out. DBZ Kai took the extra episodes out that added intrigue to the story. Added those stupid scenes that stand out like a sore thump, and made the picture look way to soft. So then the level sets come out. Those were more like it. Then they cancel them lol Over a year after that they come out with this Blu ray season crap. FUNi, just hurry up and come out with Dbox Blu rays and that should be good. How do you exspect us DBZ fans to keep spending money on this crap you put out. We have been buying the same show over and over since the 90s :lolno: :lolno: :lolno: :lolno: :lolno: :lolno:
Last edited by final_flash on Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by KingofWisdom » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:34 pm

Well, that's why they keep producing these poor quality releases. People buy them.
Last edited by KingofWisdom on Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by final_flash » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:34 pm

lansing wrote:
final_flash wrote:
Actually TVs dont crop the picture. They stretch a 4:3 picture to 16:9 which will make the characters look fat. The cropping is one of the only things this release does good. They OB used center cropping which was automatically the center of the pic. The Blu ray set use selective cropping where they pick and chose how they crop it. So important parts of the scene don't get cut out. But every thing else you are right about.
TV has a zoom mode that's make specially for 4:3 video, scaled the width until the black bar were cut off on the two sides, while keeping aspect ratio by cropping the top and bottom part of the video, which is exactly what these blu ray are doing right now.
Did you not read what me and falle wrote? Zooming will lower the resolution of the pic. I understand it is technical and hard for the average user to understand.
Last edited by final_flash on Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by darkknightkryta » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:35 pm

Finally got my set. I have to say, this is one messed up release. Some points:

- Colours are all over the place. The production company didn't even bother to fix the faded corners of the film. I've seen colours change in still scenes. The saturation they did wasn't too bad though; better than the orange bricks. The orange bricks was consistent though, can't say I've seen colours change during the same scene in that set.

- The screen filter was a huge waste of CPU processing power. As others have mentioned, the grain manages to find its way back, and boy does it look bad. Not because of the grain itself, but because of the way it wobbles in.

- Speaking of wobbles, the frames aren't aligned, causes the set to shake.

I've also noticed something, the intro doesn't use the erin symbol (Or whatever it was called, they were used only in movies). But the intro had the mountain view; I wonder what they were using this time around. Another note, this is most likely been new capture from the telecine machine; there's too many things wrong with the capture that unless Franko's company did a lot with digital fixes for the DVD release, let alone what was done for the level sets,shouldn't be there.

Kai vs this set

I thought it would be interesting to see how Toei would have handled this kind of release so I went to compare this to Kai. Kai holds up surprisingly well in regards to sharpness. Toei screwed up on colour balance and brightness though. Raditz' hair is currently blue due to the brighness, and the reds bleed making them almost glow. For that I'd have to give it to the season sets. But the overall image quality goes to Kai, Kai even has its grain structure intact as much as they tried to smooth it out.

Final thoughts
I find it very odd that Funimation would leave the capture as is (Wobble frames, faded corners, etc) and then apply a filter which destroys the image. It would have been better looking to just apply a screen filter like others have here and called it a day. I actually appreciate the work Steve Franko put into his previous sets now. I ultimately have no clue who Funimation made this set for though. The young-ins most likely watched Kai on Nicktoons or Toonzai/Vortexx, so they're better off with that. The hardcore is going to spit on this release, plus having Kuchiki's score in Kai now pretty much completely replaces Z on a nostalgic level (Unless you really want to watch the filler episodes). Those who haven't watched Dragon Ball z should start off with Kai anyways. I mean, watching the first episode again, I don't think anyone would sit through those 15 minutes of Gohan running around in a forest. Are there enough general fans who'd buy this set over the DVDs? Is it worth wide-screening this to put it up on Hulu only? Since they'd have to spend god knows how much money to censor it again for T.V. Kai's already been made for T.V. so that'd be better to show. But we'll see how far Funimation goes with this. I'm sure sales for season 2 are going to drop like a rock (Price is higher too).

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by final_flash » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:39 pm

darkknightkryta, everyone here at Kanzenshuu already went over those things a long time ago. If you (had) read all (of) our posts, we could have saved you the $40, lol.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:39 pm

darkknightkryta wrote:Raditz' hair is currently blue due to the brighness, and the reds bleed making them almost glow.
Raditz' hair is supposed to be blue. It's that way in the Dragon Boxes, and in the original cels.

Also, if the reds are so bright that they're glowing, then there's something wrong with your TV. Kai has very good contrast and color balance.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by dbboxkaifan » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:41 pm

darkknightkryta wrote:plus having Kuchiki's score in Kai now pretty much completely replaces Z on a nostalgic level
The DBZ extremely limited bgm use in Kai is absolutely atrocious and it'll never replace Dragon Ball Z with the huge variety it actually had back then.

If I were to watch Kai then it'd need to be with the original Yamamoto score because I can't put up with the shit recycled music they used for Kai.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by falle » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:42 pm

final_flash wrote:
lansing wrote:
final_flash wrote:
Actually TVs dont crop the picture. They stretch a 4:3 picture to 16:9 which will make the characters look fat. The cropping is one of the only things this release does good. They OB used center cropping which was automatically the center of the pic. The Blu ray set use selective cropping where they pick and chose how they crop it. So important parts of the scene don't get cut out. But every thing else you are right about.
TV has a zoom mode that's make specially for 4:3 video, scaled the width until the black bar were cut off on the two sides, while keeping aspect ratio by cropping the top and bottom part of the video, which is exactly what these blu ray are doing right now.
Did you not read what me and falle wrote? Zooming will lower the resolution of the pic. I understand it is technical and hard for the average user to understand.
I think that you're right, it is hard for many to understand. I might make an understandable guide tomorrow if there's a need?
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by KingofWisdom » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:43 pm

Kai's only saving grace, imo, is the English dub. I'd rather stick with the original Z for the Japanese audio track.
"Those transformations insane,
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)

"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by dbboxkaifan » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:46 pm

KingofWisdom wrote:Kai's only saving grace, imo, is the English dub. I'd rather stick with the original Z for the Japanese audio track.
That's pretty much the only reason for almost all foreign dubs, except Latin Spanish and Brazilian dubs.
FUNimation 2015 Releases I want:
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by final_flash » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:47 pm

darkknightkryta wrote: Those who haven't watched Dragon Ball z should start off with Kai anyways. I mean, watching the first episode again, I don't think anyone would sit through those 15 minutes of Gohan running around in a forest.
I have to disagree on that. I like how in DBZ you don't always have action every scene. They try to build the characters. You need the quiet before the storm. It makes the storm much more epic.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by KingofWisdom » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:50 pm

I like the ideas behind some of the padding. Like, Gohan being further developed before the Z Warriors take on the Saiyans is a good idea, in theory. As is the training for the human characters being elaborated on. I just don't think the execution was very good. I know people like Gohan and the orphans, but it's honestly one of the worst filler episodes of Z, imo. You could also argue it weakens Gohan's character, because he doesn't even turn back until he's a few feet from home. If Kai were completely reanimated with no filler, I probably would be less interested in Z (assuming it were done well).
Last edited by KingofWisdom on Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Those transformations insane,
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)

"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by sumpter360 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:54 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Season 3 has been listed on the FUNImation store if anyone is interested. Listed for 1/4/14.
And considerably cheaper (not to mention the likelihood of getting it a week or two early) on RightStuf: http://www.rightstuf.com/1-800-338-6827 ... 1261/4/0/0
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by qjz123 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:37 pm

darkknightkryta wrote:I'm sure sales for season 2 are going to drop like a rock (Price is higher too).
What are you basing this on? The season one blu rays have stayed in the top 5 of amazons anime blu ray best seller list since it's release. Currently it's at number 3 http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/mo ... v_1_3_last. The new blu rays are selling great. As for the price of season 2 you can get it on rightstuf for $26.99 amazon's price will most likely fall as we get closer to the release and for anyone who already pre ordered it for $40 from amazon if amazon drops the price they'll automatically get the cheaper price.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by dbboxkaifan » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:46 pm

qjz123 wrote:
darkknightkryta wrote:I'm sure sales for season 2 are going to drop like a rock (Price is higher too).
What are you basing this on? The season one blu rays have stayed in the top 5 of amazons anime blu ray best seller list since it's release. Currently it's at number 3 http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/mo ... v_1_3_last. The new blu rays are selling great. As for the price of season 2 you can get it on rightstuf for $26.99 amazon's price will most likely fall as we get closer to the release and for anyone who already pre ordered it for $40 from amazon if amazon drops the price they'll automatically get the cheaper price.
Amazon's flawed review feature almost fooled me into thinking NGE 3.33 was already out, phew.

Btw, Amazon's initial pre-order price of DBZ Season 2 BD was $24.99 before they increased to $39.99.
FUNimation 2015 Releases I want:
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by lansing » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:56 pm

final_flash wrote:
lansing wrote:
final_flash wrote:
Actually TVs dont crop the picture. They stretch a 4:3 picture to 16:9 which will make the characters look fat. The cropping is one of the only things this release does good. They OB used center cropping which was automatically the center of the pic. The Blu ray set use selective cropping where they pick and chose how they crop it. So important parts of the scene don't get cut out. But every thing else you are right about.
TV has a zoom mode that's make specially for 4:3 video, scaled the width until the black bar were cut off on the two sides, while keeping aspect ratio by cropping the top and bottom part of the video, which is exactly what these blu ray are doing right now.
Did you not read what me and falle wrote? Zooming will lower the resolution of the pic. I understand it is technical and hard for the average user to understand.
If you really want to talk technical, then I'll talk technical.
And technically, these season blu-ray set are also upscale from whatever remaster they used. They are not new raw scans.

The first 34 episodes were made from the level set remaster, and the later ones were made from the orange brick remaster that they made back in 2006 2007. This mean that the actual source resolutions are most likely be in 1440x1080 already. And to make a 1920x1080 cropped version off that, they HAVE TO upscale.

What your saying is correct only if the source remasters were native 4k scans.

So at the end, this is exactly the same as to what TV zoom is doing quality wise, only the TV is doing it in a non-destructible way.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" Coming To Blu-ray (Updated 12/31

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:07 pm

lansing wrote:The first 34 episodes were made from the level set remaster, and the later ones were made from the orange brick remaster that they made back in 2006 2007.
There are no orange brick masters on this set. They're all from their level remaster. The rest of the "season one" episodes were released on streaming services with the same remastering as the level sets.

They've completely ditched the orange brick masters, though its a shame for seasons 6 and beyond, because those were rescanned to retain the grain, which was done because their DVNR process deleted line art. Since that's no longer a problem, we'll likely get the whole series scrubbed clean. :problem:
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