Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

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Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by TheGmGoken » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:34 am

Okay I got this idea from another topic. I don't believe in hardcore anime fans( I do believe in hardcore fans of an anime series but not anime in general) which is why I put a quotation. Why oh why do they always say they want subs, they hate inaccurate dubs, the ENG voices does not sound right(Or whatever language they speak), or subs are always the best. Yet they bash Kai and praise Z almost ALL the time.

I just can't understand that. I understand nostalgia(In fact this thread can be connected to this topic http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... +Americans) but if you're going to prefer subs should't you do so for DBZ. Not trying say they can't for once prefer a dub but they complain about Kai for CHANGING the story(From the inaccurate story they most likely grew up with. WHich isn't 100% inaccurate just...what they say) from what they saw first. I'm sure DBZ wasn't the only anime they saw growing up.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:41 am

For a lot of folks, DBZ wasn't / isn't / will never be "anime" to them. It's a show they watched when they got home from school.

Perhaps it was a gateway drug to the larger world of anime, but to them it will never be a part of that, and so it is viewed as its own entity in and of itself as a show that existed as that exact version from their memory and anything else -- accurate dub or original version of the show or otherwise -- contradicts that memory too much to be accepted.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by theoriginalbilis » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:24 pm

Mike pretty much nailed it on the head.

This is a similar reason to why some people will rag on dubs such as Naruto and Bleach and even the FUNI dub of One Piece, because for the most part, the very first version they saw will be the version that stays with them in their mind and memory. And anyone that's slightly different audio/visual/translation-wise will be somewhat of a hurdle for them to get over. And the same people who may be fans of these shows most likely started watching DBZ as was shown on Cartoon Network.

You have how much it amuses/boggles me when someone says the FUNi DBZ dub is better than the original, and yet shits on the Bleach/Naruto/SJ dubs. Believe it or not, it happens.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Kendamu » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:50 pm

I can relate. While I do appreciate Golion, Voltron will always have a place in my heart. To me, it's less "anime" and more "cartoon" to me. Same with Mach-a-Go-Go and Speed Racer.

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by penguintruth » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:35 pm

You're a hardcore fan if you like the show for what it is. You can put all the Goku stickers on your Trapper Keeper you want, but if you going around quoting the "Ally to good, nightmare to you" speech, what kind of fan are you really?

It's funny that if Funimation did today what they did to DBZ with any other show, they wouldn't get away with it. But nostalgia is powerful.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:41 pm

penguintruth wrote:You're a hardcore fan if you like the show for what it is. You can put all the Goku stickers on your Trapper Keeper you want, but if you going around quoting the "Ally to good, nightmare to you" speech, what kind of fan are you really?

It's funny that if Funimation did today what they did to DBZ with any other show, they wouldn't get away with it. But nostalgia is powerful.
You have no god damn idea how right you are with nostalgia being powerful. Hence the reason we got the youtube fanbase. Though I admit, I have seen a rising number of people defending Kai on there. Definitely a minority, but a increasing one.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Looneygamemaster » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:06 pm

You can put all the Goku stickers on your Trapper Keeper you want, but if you going around quoting the "Ally to good, nightmare to you" speech, what kind of fan are you really?
Just as much of a fan. There's no sense in saying that someone is "more" or "less" of a fan than anyone else.

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by penguintruth » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:22 pm

Looneygamemaster wrote:
You can put all the Goku stickers on your Trapper Keeper you want, but if you going around quoting the "Ally to good, nightmare to you" speech, what kind of fan are you really?
Just as much of a fan. There's no sense in saying that someone is "more" or "less" of a fan than anyone else.
There's no sense in not saying it. If you're not liking the show for what it's intended to be, how can you be said to really be a fan? If I'm using a book as a hat, am I a fan of that book?
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Looneygamemaster » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:26 pm

If you're not liking the show for what it's intended to be, how can you be said to really be a fan?
You enjoy Dragon Ball, no matter the version. That's all you need to be a fan.

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Looneygamemaster wrote:
If you're not liking the show for what it's intended to be, how can you be said to really be a fan?
You enjoy Dragon Ball, no matter the version. That's all you need to be a fan.
Well, I do think that the subtitled version of "Dragon Ball" and the dubbed version are different enough that they can qualify as two very different shows, so to say, "I'm a fan of Dragon Ball" may have a very different meaning depending on who you talk to.

Having said that, I agree with you that there's no such thing as a "better" fan. A fan is a fan. Nobody can even agree on what the term "hardcore fan" means. It's not like there's a government agency that's ranking how good a fan someone is.
Last edited by TheBlackPaladin on Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by penguintruth » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Looneygamemaster wrote:
If you're not liking the show for what it's intended to be, how can you be said to really be a fan?
You enjoy Dragon Ball, no matter the version. That's all you need to be a fan.
That's completely absurd when some versions are barely the show at all. If I remove the wheels of a bicycle and sit on it, am I a bicyclist?
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Ringworm128 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:35 pm

You're a DB fan no matter what version of the show you like. Even if you just play the video games you're still a DB fan in some form. It's like saying someone doesn't like Star Wars because they watch the special editions. I hate this "true fan" BS.
There's no sense in not saying it. If you're not liking the show for what it's intended to be, how can you be said to really be a fan? If I'm using a book as a hat, am I a fan of that book?
It's more like saying you're a fan of that book when it's a retelling of said book, it's different but it's still under the franchises roof, it's just as valid as everything else. If someone who watches the Batman films said "I like Batman" would you go "no you don't read the comics"?
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by penguintruth » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:38 pm

ringworm128 wrote:You're a DB fan no matter what version of the show you like. Even if you just play the video games you're still a DB fan in some form. It's like saying someone doesn't like Star Wars because they watch the special editions. I hate this "true fan" BS.
If the version you're watching is not the damn show, then you aren't a fan, anymore than eating marshmallow Peeps makes you an eater of chicken.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Ringworm128 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:46 pm

penguintruth wrote:
ringworm128 wrote:You're a DB fan no matter what version of the show you like. Even if you just play the video games you're still a DB fan in some form. It's like saying someone doesn't like Star Wars because they watch the special editions. I hate this "true fan" BS.
If the version you're watching is not the damn show, then you aren't a fan, anymore than eating marshmallow Peeps makes you an eater of chicken.
It's still the same show just a different version, it's more like eating fried chicken instead of roast chicken and then saying you like chicken.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:48 pm

penguintruth wrote:
ringworm128 wrote:You're a DB fan no matter what version of the show you like. Even if you just play the video games you're still a DB fan in some form. It's like saying someone doesn't like Star Wars because they watch the special editions. I hate this "true fan" BS.
If the version you're watching is not the damn show, then you aren't a fan, anymore than eating marshmallow Peeps makes you an eater of chicken.
Damnit..now I want some Peeps...

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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by penguintruth » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:02 pm

ringworm128 wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
ringworm128 wrote:You're a DB fan no matter what version of the show you like. Even if you just play the video games you're still a DB fan in some form. It's like saying someone doesn't like Star Wars because they watch the special editions. I hate this "true fan" BS.
If the version you're watching is not the damn show, then you aren't a fan, anymore than eating marshmallow Peeps makes you an eater of chicken.
It's still the same show just a different version, it's more like eating fried chicken instead of roast chicken and then saying you like chicken.
But the show was intended to be one way and a version of the show tramples all over it with entire tracts of dialogue that paint the characters differently. That version can not be equated with the original and therefore a fan of that version cannot be equated with a fan of the show!

I suppose, theoretically, it is possible to be a fan of both versions, but unlikely given how different they are.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Ringworm128 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Though it isn't actually written in stone that DB was meant to be one way. It's not like Toriyama or Toei said "thou shalt not make different versions of DB".
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Looneygamemaster » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:13 pm

But the show was intended to be one way and a version of the show tramples all over it with entire tracts of dialogue that paint the characters differently. That version can not be equated with the original and therefore a fan of that version cannot be equated with a fan of the show!
The "one way" you mention would be "Japanese with no subtitles." If someone subtitles the show or dubs it in a different language, they've already created different, equally valid versions of that show.

You can certainly judge those versions; I would never argue that Funimation's original DBZ dub is good. If someone praises that dub, I would disagree with them. But I would never exclude someone for preferring one version of the show over the other. Not only is it rude, it stifles potential debate.

If someone is a fan of Dragon Ball, they're a fan. That's all there is to it.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by Ringworm128 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:28 pm

To be a "true fan" you have to read the Tankobons or Kanzenbans in raw Japanese. No wait, one cannot rightfully call himself a DB fan until he has read every chapter from the original SJ printings in raw Japanese.
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Re: Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

Post by penguintruth » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:22 pm

There's a difference between being a fan based on reasonable translation and being a fan of a version that tramples over the original meaning over and over again.

When you're a fan of a version of the show that strips the intention of the script, how can you be referred to as a fan of the show? It stops being the show.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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