If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

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If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by Bullza » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:32 am

What do you think the chances are that it would disappoint the fans?

I think they'd be a pretty good chance that it would for possibly several reasons.

1. It just wouldn't be able to live up to expectations. DBZ fans don't just like DBZ they adore it and clammer for any sort of follow up, hoping that DB Hoshi and AF are new series, they watch DB Absalon, read DB Multiverse and countless other fan made sequels. If an official sequel was announced then the hype and expectations would be through the roof and there's no way it could meet them.

2. It would probably have a different tone. Dragon Ball had a lot of comedy and light moments but also a lot of serious, dramatic, hopeless and violent scenes aswell like Frieza having fun impaling Krillin or the criminal shooting an old couple for fun. I doubt a sequel series would have that kind of violence now. What with how manga like One Piece is nowadays, Dragon Ball SD and BoG I'd wager that it'd be a lot more kid friendly which people probably wouldn't like.

3. There'd be a lot of contradictions. Toriyama doesn't remember all the details, Ginga Patrol Jaco and BoG had them so you could bet that a manga would be full of them and the more hardcore fans wouldn't like anything messing up what they think has alread been established.

4. It would probably not follow the typical DBZ formula. DBZ has a simple formula that does get critised sometimes for being repetitive but most people eat up. New strong villain shows up, beats good guys, training, transformations and good guy wins with an epic flashy move with the Earth or Universe at stake. That's what people like and it's what people would expect and I think Toriyama would surprise people by going a different route entirely, maybe having some sort of adventure aspect again, less focus on power and transformations and all that which again I think the casual fan would not want.

I'm not saying it wouldn't still be good and popular but I really don't think it'd be like the DBZ that people are familiar with and would more than likely disappoint your average fan. BoG was good but it did feel as though something was missing from it.

What do you think? Do you think it'd be just as good as the original manga? Would it better because it may be more unique or would it be worse because it'd be different?

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:37 am

If there was to be a new series to Dragonball and Dragonball Z, id like to see it follow Goku and Vegeta Jr, or be a redone version of GT.
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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by Bullza » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:46 am

I'd rather it have nothing to do with GT at all. I'd much rather they go into this multiverse concept and have the characters go around different universes, meeting new characters and fighting new Gods or whatever.

Let GT just be it's own thing.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:51 am

Bullza wrote:I'd rather it have nothing to do with GT at all. I'd much rather they go into this multiverse concept and have the characters go around different universes, meeting new characters and fighting new Gods or whatever.
Let GT just be it's own thing.
Well Toriyama would not be drawing as Jaco was his last work. It would be done by Toei and likely Toyble would be the one drawing it seeing as he does the Heroes manga.

Then again, depending on Toyble's success with the Heroes manga, we may very well see his AF doujin get animated. The SSJ Bardock doujin got animated and made part of the official timeline according to the Chozenshuus.
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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:00 am

KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Then again, depending on Toyble's success with the Heroes manga, we may very well see his AF doujin get animated.
I doubt he can because his AF is not based on any original ideas of his own. He could get sued by the original creator of Xicor and he also borrow other ideas from older fan fiction. Besides his AF has some really bad plot holes and stuff that makes no sense like Gohan going SSj4 for no reason and Piccolo can hold off Janemba. Also Broli is in it and his movies can't fit into the anime timeline. Janemba being in it also creates even bigger plot holes.

I think AT doing a new series could go either way. He most likely does not remember most of the stuff that he wrote and I think it would be the Episode 1 of Dragon Ball. By Episode I, fans waited for years for AT to do another series and it end up being a let down. Just let him be the producer, have him approve of the story and script. I rather see a DBO series then a sequel to GT. Like pre-Hero Legacy stories exist only in fan fiction.
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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:22 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Then again, depending on Toyble's success with the Heroes manga, we may very well see his AF doujin get animated.
I doubt he can because his AF is not based on any original ideas of his own. He could get sued by the original creator of Xicor and he also borrow other ideas from older fan fiction. Besides his AF has some really bad plot holes and stuff that makes no sense like Gohan going SSj4 for no reason and Piccolo can hold off Janemba. Also Broli is in it and his movies can't fit into the anime timeline. Janemba being in it also creates even bigger plot holes.

I think AT doing a new series could go either way. He most likely does not remember most of the stuff that he wrote and I think it would be the Episode 1 of Dragon Ball. By Episode I, fans waited for years for AT to do another series and it end up being a let down. Just let him be the producer, have him approve of the story and script. I rather see a DBO series then a sequel to GT. Like pre-Hero Legacy stories exist only in fan fiction.
I think Toriyama mentioned in a interview that if he returned to Dragonball, hed reboot it from a certain time period. Change events and characters around. Basically hed do a what if reboot. Sounds interesting to be honest but then again he wanted to do a continuation with Mr. Satan being the main character so...yeah...
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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:36 am

It would probably disappoint unless they brought back the original editors and allowed them as much influence over the series as they had during the series original run. Without them, the series would have ended very early, there would have been no Cell, no fusion, and very few transformations/power-ups.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:43 am

KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Then again, depending on Toyble's success with the Heroes manga, we may very well see his AF doujin get animated.
I doubt he can because his AF is not based on any original ideas of his own. He could get sued by the original creator of Xicor and he also borrow other ideas from older fan fiction. Besides his AF has some really bad plot holes and stuff that makes no sense like Gohan going SSj4 for no reason and Piccolo can hold off Janemba. Also Broli is in it and his movies can't fit into the anime timeline. Janemba being in it also creates even bigger plot holes.

I think AT doing a new series could go either way. He most likely does not remember most of the stuff that he wrote and I think it would be the Episode 1 of Dragon Ball. By Episode I, fans waited for years for AT to do another series and it end up being a let down. Just let him be the producer, have him approve of the story and script. I rather see a DBO series then a sequel to GT. Like pre-Hero Legacy stories exist only in fan fiction.
I think Toriyama mentioned in a interview that if he returned to Dragonball, hed reboot it from a certain time period. Change events and characters around. Basically hed do a what if reboot. Sounds interesting to be honest but then again he wanted to do a continuation with Mr. Satan being the main character so...yeah...
Like Dragon Ball SD? If he returned to the series without his original editors, it would probably have a very different tone, and be much more focused on humor than action and crazy power-ups. Neko Majin would also appear frequently.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by B » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:55 am

UpFromTheSkies wrote:It would probably disappoint unless they brought back the original editors and allowed them as much influence over the series as they had during the series original run. Without them, the series would have ended very early, there would have been no Cell, no fusion, and very few transformations/power-ups.
I'm pretty sure that Toriyama's third editor, who he worked with from the Cell Games to the end of series, is still with him, so that technically wouldn't be a problem.

I'm not clamoring for new lengthy DB material; specials and movies and guidebooks and mini-manga all work for me. It's not going to happen, as Toriyama basically burned whatever drive was left in him on Galactic Patrolman Jaco, but in this fantasy world where he does continue the story... I don't really have any expectations or wants out of it. Just be good. Be exciting. Never discuss a character's strength relative to another's.

The most exciting thing to come out of a prospective new series, to me, would be an inevitable animated adaptation using his current design style. The way Toriyama draws has changed and I feel Toei Animation will never acknowledge or reflect this. It's even worse that any modern takes on Goku's childhood always like his 90's style.
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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by Bullza » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:43 am

I didn't think about the editor but that would play a large part in the quality. I've read on some of the ideas that Toriyama had before the editors stepped in and they really didn't sound as good as what it eventually became.

He'd probably have more say in how it went if he did a new series now and it probably would be too comedic. Battle of Gods could have used less humour and more drama, that was mainly what held it back. He'd need to appeal to the older audience of people in their twenties who grew up with the series but would probably aim it towards kids.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by hleV » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:15 pm

It would suck, unless Toriyama got a really good editor to point out that his ideas are bad.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:53 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Then again, depending on Toyble's success with the Heroes manga, we may very well see his AF doujin get animated.
I doubt he can because his AF is not based on any original ideas of his own. He could get sued by the original creator of Xicor and he also borrow other ideas from older fan fiction. Besides his AF has some really bad plot holes and stuff that makes no sense like Gohan going SSj4 for no reason and Piccolo can hold off Janemba. Also Broli is in it and his movies can't fit into the anime timeline. Janemba being in it also creates even bigger plot holes.

I think AT doing a new series could go either way. He most likely does not remember most of the stuff that he wrote and I think it would be the Episode 1 of Dragon Ball. By Episode I, fans waited for years for AT to do another series and it end up being a let down. Just let him be the producer, have him approve of the story and script. I rather see a DBO series then a sequel to GT. Like pre-Hero Legacy stories exist only in fan fiction.
I think Toriyama mentioned in a interview that if he returned to Dragonball, hed reboot it from a certain time period. Change events and characters around. Basically hed do a what if reboot. Sounds interesting to be honest but then again he wanted to do a continuation with Mr. Satan being the main character so...yeah...
I think he said he WISH he could reboot it or wish he knew the plot(Instead of writing as he goes along) beforehand so he can change events and characters. Such as Goku being an Alien. I know for sure he mentioned he wish he knew that all along. If Toriyama writes a DB sequel. I want something SHORT. Seeing as nothing will top his original work. I think we don't need something long but short. Maybe medium. Something could be a gag manga(Satan. Saiyaman.) or even Oob's training with Oob at the end surpassing Goku(Don't know how fans and Toei would feel about that). I want either a Goku Jr story(I don't mind GT that much no more. It happened and nothing changing it) or a DBO styled of story. Seeing as Toriyama did some art for DBO.
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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by JamesOwnz » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:55 am

It was his editors who made him do fusion? What did he have instead?

Anyways like all things this big after such a time off it would be a letdown I am sure.. I also think the focus wouldn't be on Goku which would piss most people off.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by JamesOwnz » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:58 am

But Toriyama is such a tease really.

Think of the ending in 2004.. pretty much gets you hyped up for more adventures..

then the 2008 special and then BoG which introduces 12 whole new universes... the stage is set and if there were ever to be more Dragon Ball now would pretty much be the time.. and it has to be now iwth the age of some of the cast on the animated side.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:55 am

JamesOwnz wrote:It was his editors who made him do fusion? What did he have instead?
Nothing, just SSJ. Toryama's editors had a pretty big affect on the series, for example Toriyama was going to make #19 and #20 the main villains after Freeza, and his editor made fun of it and said he can't make an old geezer and a fat guy the main villains, so he created #17 and #18, but then his editor complained that they were just two brats, so he made Cell. Cell's final form was originally going to be his second form, but his editor said it was too ugly, so Toriyama made another transformation as his final form.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by Gonstead » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:04 am

UpFromTheSkies wrote:Cell's final form was originally going to be his second form, but his editor said it was too ugly, so Toriyama made another transformation as his final form.
This one I haven't heard before.

I remember it being mentioned that he (Toriyama) wanted 2nd form Cell to stay around a bit longer but his editor didn't like the design and wanted it gone. Perhaps this is what you meant?
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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:18 am

Gonstead wrote:
UpFromTheSkies wrote:Cell's final form was originally going to be his second form, but his editor said it was too ugly, so Toriyama made another transformation as his final form.
This one I haven't heard before.

I remember it being mentioned that he (Toriyama) wanted 2nd form Cell to stay around a bit longer but his editor didn't like the design and wanted it gone. Perhaps this is what you meant?
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Akira Toriyama: At that time it began to be more fun to think up the story than to draw the pictures. But with the story, I basically only thought of each chapter. That’s why I end up getting caught in these quagmires. (laughs) Around the time of Trunks’ time travel, it was dreadful. I kept drawing, and it just got more and more incoherent.

Kazuhiko Torishima: You only got away with that because Kondō was your editor. I can’t stand that kind of troublesome stuff. (laughs)

Akira Toriyama: You’re terrible to say that, Torishima-san. Right around then was when the Androids No. 19 and No. 20 appeared. You weren’t my editor or anything anymore, but you specifically called me to say “I thought that the enemies had finally come, but aren’t these just a geezer and a fatso?” (laughs) In truth, I hadn’t had plans for anyone but No. 19 and No. 20 to appear. But there was no helping it, so I brought out No. 17 and No. 18. Then you called me up and said “What, this time it’s just some brats?” So I brought out Cell. (laughs)

Fuyuto Takeda: So you hadn’t planned on Cell appearing at all?

Akira Toriyama: That’s right. I liked No. 19 and No. 20 just fine. And I liked the initial Cell fine as well.

Fuyuto Takeda: The bug-like one?

Akira Toriyama: But Kondō-san said “He looks ugly. Of course, he can transform.”, so I had no choice but to transform him into his second-form.

Yū Kondō: Was that how it was?

Akira Toriyama: And then you were really awful, Kondō-san. “This time he looks like a moron, doesn’t he? Hurry up and make him into his perfect-form.” you said.

Yū Kondō: But he really did look like a moron. (laughs)

Akira Toriyama: With second-form Cell as well, I liked him well enough. Actually, I had wanted him to play a more active role. But since I was told he looked stupid, I had no choice but to change him. (laughs) So I made him into his cool-looking perfect form, which was to Kondō-san‘s liking.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by Fizzer » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:21 am

Honestly, I think it might suck. The "new age" Dragon Ball that we're now getting is aimed at a much younger audience than the original series was, despite the fact that the original fans have grown up and still want more. A full reboot with someone else illustrating for Toriyama, or a sequel starring Oob, could be great, but not if it feels like it's for under-5s.




I really wish I could know how the story would have played out in all of these different scenarios, like if 19 and 20 had remained the villains, or if Cell had remained in his 2nd form for longer.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:37 am

Fizzer wrote:I really wish I could know how the story would have played out in all of these different scenarios, like if 19 and 20 had remained the villains, or if Cell had remained in his 2nd form for longer.
I never thought much about 19 and 20, but I always imagined had they not come up with fusion, Buu would have been defeated by Vegeta, and then Trunks, Goten and Gohan would have taken over as the main characters.

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Re: If Toriyama did a Dragon Ball ongoing sequel...

Post by Fizzer » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:43 am

UpFromTheSkies wrote:
Fizzer wrote:I really wish I could know how the story would have played out in all of these different scenarios, like if 19 and 20 had remained the villains, or if Cell had remained in his 2nd form for longer.
I never thought much about 19 and 20, but I always imagined had they not come up with fusion, Buu would have been defeated by Vegeta, and then Trunks, Goten and Gohan would have taken over as the main characters.
You mean Buu would have died in Vegeta's explosion? I think that would have been too quick, Buu had only just appeared. I guess it would have been a nice, concise arc (and a better one - the whole thing went downhill after that), but it doesn't really seem to fit the mould. This is also why I wonder about the "19 and 20 arc", it would have been far too short had they just been defeated, so there must have been more to it.

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