Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:36 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:Does Pure Boo know what a Planet Core is?
Does he have to? He is so strong, that just throwing a big ki blast to the planet, the ki blast easily dives into & destroys the core, and the planet.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:38 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:Does Pure Boo know what a Planet Core is?
Does he have to? He is so strong, that just throwing a big ki blast to the planet, the ki blast easily dives into & destroys the core, and the planet.
Would't be shocked if he just used a Ki ball bigger than the planet quite frankly.
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:41 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:Would't be shocked if he just used a Ki ball bigger than the planet quite frankly.
That's too far-fetched. We haven't seen ki blasts larger than a city (right?), let alone the planet.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:43 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:Would't be shocked if he just used a Ki ball bigger than the planet quite frankly.
That's too far-fetched. We haven't seen ki blasts larger than a city (right?), let alone the planet.
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Pure Boo's Pink energy ball that destroyed Earth

and many more. We seen ki blast(s) bigger than cities. Largest have been bigger than planets before and some of the top tiers are at least half the planet maybe 25%
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by The Monkey King » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:03 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote: That's not how destroying a planet works. To destroy a planet, one has to send the ki blast inside the core of the planet, and make it explode. They don't create explosions that engulf the whole planet.
From the looks of it Kid Buu's attack touched the planet and eviserated it:
And as shown by Freeza if you try and destroy the planet by just destroying it's core you'll have to wait 5 minutes for it to blow up:
Chapter: 320 (DBZ 126), P10.1-4
Freeza: “Though we’ve avoided having the planet instantly explode, its core has been destroyed…Do you know what that means? Even if left alone, after 5 minutes this time there will definitely be a huge explosion, and Planet Namek will become space dust…”
Goku: “What!?...5 minutes will be enough for me to defeat you and escape in the spaceship I rode here from Earth.”
Also Cell's Kamehameha showed no signs of going anywhere near the Earth's core yet Goku was still worried that it would destroy the Earth:
How do you explain DBZ characters destroying completely solid celestial objects like the moon?
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:07 am

The Monkey King wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote: That's not how destroying a planet works. To destroy a planet, one has to send the ki blast inside the core of the planet, and make it explode. They don't create explosions that engulf the whole planet.
From the looks of it Kid Buu's attack touched the planet and eviserated it:
And as shown by Freeza if you try and destroy the planet by just destroying it's core you'll have to wait 5 minutes for it to blow up:
Chapter: 320 (DBZ 126), P10.1-4
Freeza: “Though we’ve avoided having the planet instantly explode, its core has been destroyed…Do you know what that means? Even if left alone, after 5 minutes this time there will definitely be a huge explosion, and Planet Namek will become space dust…”
Goku: “What!?...5 minutes will be enough for me to defeat you and escape in the spaceship I rode here from Earth.”
Also Cell's Kamehameha showed no signs of going anywhere near the Earth's core yet Goku was still worried that it would destroy the Earth:
How do you explain DBZ characters destroying completely solid celestial objects like the moon?
Because its Dragonball Z, there always has to be something blowing up.
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:24 am

Are we arguing science and physics now? Not again :lolno:

When will people learn that physics and fantasy don't mix?
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:27 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Are we arguing science and physics now? Not again :lolno:

When will people learn that physics and fantasy don't mix?
Everyone needs to take a page from Gurren Lagann.
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by Blade » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:50 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Are we arguing science and physics now? Not again :lolno:

When will people learn that physics and fantasy don't mix?
Real world physics and fantasy physics don't mix, but if fantasy physics are intrinsically tied to narrative events within a story then it's not absurd to debate within those terms.
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by TheGmGoken » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:32 am

KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Are we arguing science and physics now? Not again :lolno:

When will people learn that physics and fantasy don't mix?
Everyone needs to take a page from Gurren Lagann.

Yes please. Best anime in the world said "fuck logic". I suggest other anime and fans do it too. ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWA!
Are we arguing science and physics now? Not again :lolno:

When will people learn that physics and fantasy don't mix?
No...no we are not.
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by SaiyanZ » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:09 pm

Blade wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Are we arguing science and physics now? Not again :lolno:

When will people learn that physics and fantasy don't mix?
Real world physics and fantasy physics don't mix, but if fantasy physics are intrinsically tied to narrative events within a story then it's not absurd to debate within those terms.
This tbh
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:30 pm

Oh no we're arguing physics again...this never turns out well.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by Gogeta 00 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:52 pm

Not sure if any body brought this up or not, but it just occurred to me that Gogeta must be considered stronger than Goku, since Gogeta is equal to all of Goku's power + another huge power level. So yeah, I think that there is a character in Dragon Ball that surpasses Goku and thus there is an anime character that surpasses Goku.
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:36 pm

The issue with Gogeta and Vegito is that they are pretty much almost featless. It's hard to say how powerful they are without power scaling Goku and Vegeta. SSj4 Gogeta's best feat was kicking the death ball attack from Super Yi Xing Long that was going to destroy the Earth. Movie 12 Gogeta did nothing other then kick Janemba's ass and the fusion was over like a few seconds later. Vegito's best feat was able to be resistant to transmutation after he was turn into candy from Buu.
dbzfan7 wrote:Oh no we're arguing physics again...this never turns out well.
I see nothing wrong using physics in DB? People use physics for stuff like Marvel, DC and Star Wars. So why not?
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:45 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:I see nothing wrong using physics in DB? People use physics for stuff like Marvel, DC and Star Wars. So why not?
Because people always have hissy fits on this topic as DBZ doesn't really have as many defining feats.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by TheGmGoken » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:47 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:I see nothing wrong using physics in DB? People use physics for stuff like Marvel, DC and Star Wars. So why not?
Because people always have hissy fits on this topic as DBZ doesn't really have as many defining feats.
This. People complain that Cell should't be able to destroy a solar system yet the system is mostly filled of NOTHING. Literally nothing.
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by Mewzard » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:20 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:I see nothing wrong using physics in DB? People use physics for stuff like Marvel, DC and Star Wars. So why not?
Because people always have hissy fits on this topic as DBZ doesn't really have as many defining feats.
This. People complain that Cell should't be able to destroy a solar system yet the system is mostly filled of NOTHING. Literally nothing.
But it's a LOT of nothing. It takes light over 8 minutes to travel from the Sun to the Earth. The size of the Solar System is several dozen fold that. Maintaining a blast big enough to envelope the Sun by the end over the course of an 8 minute journey (the sun being several hundred thousand times more massive and over a thousand fold larger in diameter), assuming they were firing at the speed of light, is draining enough as is. Taking the whole thing? Yeesh. The best you could hope for is destabilizing the Sun, and even then, Goku and co would have to do so from the Earth since they have to breathe air. I don't think Goku at full power could maintain a blast for the length of time to make it to the Sun at the power needed to destroy it.
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by TheGmGoken » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:33 pm

Mewzard wrote:
But it's a LOT of nothing. It takes light over 8 minutes to travel from the Sun to the Earth. The size of the Solar System is several dozen fold that. Maintaining a blast big enough to envelope the Sun by the end over the course of an 8 minute journey (the sun being several hundred thousand times more massive and over a thousand fold larger in diameter), assuming they were firing at the speed of light, is draining enough as is. Taking the whole thing? Yeesh. The best you could hope for is destabilizing the Sun, and even then, Goku and co would have to do so from the Earth since they have to breathe air. I don't think Goku at full power could maintain a blast for the length of time to make it to the Sun at the power needed to destroy it.
I just said that. You see that's the issue with putting real science into DB. I doubt Toriyama cared that it takes 8 minutes for light to travel from Sun to Earth. The main point is that Cell can destroy the Solar System at full power and most likely do so before any form of life can react(Meaning fuck how fast "light" travel and it WONT take 8 minutes). One of the few real life science facts that works in DB is breathing oxygen.
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:37 pm

I doubt Toriyama gave a shit about how science factors into any of it. He just wrote down what he wanted to. I doubt there's a deeper meaning behind it. Kinda like how the moon is drawn closer to earth then it should be, and Toriyama said the distance is the same as in the real world.
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Re: Will other Anime/Manga characters ever surpass Goku?

Post by Gogeta 00 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:43 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:The issue with Gogeta and Vegito is that they are pretty much almost featless. It's hard to say how powerful they are without power scaling Goku and Vegeta. SSj4 Gogeta's best feat was kicking the death ball attack from Super Yi Xing Long that was going to destroy the Earth. Movie 12 Gogeta did nothing other then kick Janemba's ass and the fusion was over like a few seconds later. Vegito's best feat was able to be resistant to transmutation after he was turn into candy from Buu.
How is this a problem though? I can certainly see how feats are important when comparing two characters for strength, but isn't the fact that Gogeta and Vegito are fusions enough to determine that they must be stronger than Goku (therefore surpassing him)? Regardless of what Goku's power may be at any given time, can't we safely infer that Gogeta and Vegito will always be stronger given that there power includes Goku's power and adds another huge power? It may be difficult to determine how strong they may exactly be, but can't we be sure that they will always be stronger than Goku just on the basis that they are fusions?

I am not at all apt when it comes to discussing powers, and I haven't really read much of this thread, so if I am missing something I apologize.
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