How would you have done the Cell arc?

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How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by SSJ YUSUKE » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:40 am

The Cell saga is my favourite arc in dbz I don't think it needs to improved, however since many people on this board seem to dislike it please tell me how you would change it to make it better

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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:46 am

I'm glad you asked. As I've said, Cell needs a motivation that makes sense. If he's going to threaten to blow up the world, fine, but give him a reason to want to do so! Just off the top of my head, you could easily play off that whole purpose versus programming thing. A bit cliched for artificial life, but it works. Cell's purpose is to become complete. He manages to achieves his entire life's goal pretty quickly. So now what? He's reached a bit of a conundrum. He had to do what he did to achieve his heart's desire. But now that he has, there's nothing he can do with it. In order to enjoy being perfect, he can't be perfect. If he's stronger than everyone else, which is what he wants to be, he can't ever be challenged, which is what he wants. His entire goal is somewhat paradoxical, which is why I think he peters out in the real story. There's just nothing left for him to do. So I could certainly see *that* Cell breaking down and wanting to destroy the world just so he doesn't have to deal with this dilemma that he himself brought about. Maybe have one last hurrah by proving his superiority by challenging the world's best fighters to dare stop him. It's a bit Final Fantasy-villain-esque, but Cell's Perfect Form is at his best (read: not boring) when he's freaking out over not getting his way.

I'd need a bit more time to work out the pre-Cell parts of the Cell arc, but some of it could certainly use a bit of work as well largely in part to how haphazardly it was written. Some of those ass-pulls work, but others just cause the established story to go nowhere.
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:50 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:I'm glad you asked. As I've said, Cell needs a motivation that makes sense. If he's going to threaten to blow up the world, fine, but give him a reason to want to do so! Just off the top of my head, you could easily play off that whole purpose versus programming thing. A bit cliched for artificial life, but it works. Cell's purpose is to become complete. He manages to achieves his entire life's goal pretty quickly. So now what? He's reached a bit of a conundrum. He had to do what he did to achieve his heart's desire. But now that he has, there's nothing he can do with it. In order to enjoy being perfect, he can't be perfect. If he's stronger than everyone else, which is what he wants to be, he can't ever be challenged, which is what he wants. His entire goal is somewhat paradoxical, which is why I think he peters out in the real story. There's just nothing left for him to do. So I could certainly see *that* Cell breaking down and wanting to destroy the world just so he doesn't have to deal with this dilemma that he himself brought about. Maybe have one last hurrah by proving his superiority by challenging the world's best fighters to dare stop him. It's a bit Final Fantasy-villain-esque, but Cell's Perfect Form is at his best (read: not boring) when he's freaking out over not getting his way.
I like this. It makes Gero seem more flawed too, what with his ultimate creation having such a serious "design flaw."
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by thatdbzguy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:06 am

I would not make it the steaming pile of crap that it turned out to be.
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:08 am

Please stop trolling.
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by thatdbzguy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:09 am

ABED wrote:Please stop trolling.
I wasn't aware that stating my opinion = trolling.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:15 am

thatdbzguy wrote:
ABED wrote:Please stop trolling.
I wasn't aware that stating my opinion = trolling.
You should be aware that not one thing you've written has been positive towards Dragon Ball. And "steaming pile of shit" doesn't add to the dialog.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by SSJ YUSUKE » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:30 am

thatdbzguy wrote:I would not make it the steaming pile of crap that it turned out to be.
You have added nothing constructive to this discussion, normally I'd ask you to explain exactly why you think the Cell arc is a pile of crap, but judging from your previous posts I don't think I will be getting any constructive posts which add to the discussion.
So if you don't want to properly engage with the question just don't reply at all.

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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by DBZ Mick » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:56 am

Offhand-

Don't have Freeza come back to life. It felt cheap and kinda ruins the end of the Freeza arc and all the setup for it. Have Cooler and Cold go to Earth instead.

Have the Artificial Humans be threatening- #16, #17 and #18 were hard to take seriously and were very bland and boring. I mean they had no real motivation at all, and only wanted to kill Goku because it was something to do. I mean they basically begged to be defeated and they went joyriding for pete's sake. The only time I was only was worried about them was when Cell was around. Give #17 and #18 some backstories.

Give Dr. Gero an in-depth backstory so we know his motivations, reasonings, anything to give him some character development.

GafferTape's post about Cell is also something that would have to be done.

Focus on Gohan more, so his sudden saviour role in the Cell Game feels more natural. Don't suddenly make him a pacifist, create some tension elsewhere.

More flashbacks for Trunks maybe have some events in the present mirror things in the future.
It is in his character to be rude and a bit crass. He's a hick, with no formal education. That is Son Goku. That is who he is.

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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:30 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:I'm glad you asked. As I've said, Cell needs a motivation that makes sense. If he's going to threaten to blow up the world, fine, but give him a reason to want to do so! Just off the top of my head, you could easily play off that whole purpose versus programming thing. A bit cliched for artificial life, but it works. Cell's purpose is to become complete. He manages to achieves his entire life's goal pretty quickly. So now what?
Wasn't he created by Dr Gero with the purpose of killing Goku?

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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:35 am

DBZ Mick wrote:Give Dr. Gero an in-depth backstory so we know his motivations, reasonings, anything to give him some character development.
Dr Gero already has a back story... He was a part of the Red Ribbon Army that Goku defeated as a kid, and he wants revenge. Goku took away his purpose in life, so his new purpose became killing Goku.

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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by rereboy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:58 am

Well, for starters, I would have fit into the story Android Raditz. His body was just there for the taking. If a human android is that powerful, a saiyan android seems a most logical route for a mad scientist. And Goku's brother, who had been so quickly dispatched, would be back.

Also, Gero had to know that human-saiyan hybrids were something very special due to Gohan's performance agaisnt Raditz. So him doing genetic experiments between human and saiyan DNA would also be very logical, which would serve a foreshadowing of the important role of Gohan in this arc. Something like the natural human-Saiyan hybrid agaisnt the artificial hybrid.

This idea is even more intriguing when we realize that Cell doesn't actually have the DNA of any Saiyan-human hybrid since he doesn't have the DNA of Gohan or Trunks. Seems rather puzzelying considering that Gero must have known of how unnaturally strong Gohan was.

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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by B » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:41 pm

I'm really happy with the character work done in the Cell arc; specifically Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Krillin. Whatever faults can be found with the mess that is time travel or the musical chair of villains is completely overshadowed by that.

I suppose I would tie the arc a little closer to the Red Ribbon arc than just a single doctor we never saw. Even if not the army itself; perhaps find a way to finagle Sno, or No. 8, or Bora and Upa back into the story for a small period of time.
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:26 pm

Now see, I always thought that #16 was a complete waste of a character. That is, there was already a character who existed who could have filled that same role, had that same gentle personality, had that same background, and would have actually elicited an emotional response from the characters and the audience: #8. It should have been written so that Dr. Gero found him, captured him, powered him up, and gave HIM an unswerving motivation to kill Son Goku. Goku felt so damned distant from this arc. Sure the initial motivation was to defeat him, but nearly all of the artificial humans stopped caring about that almost immediately. But if it's Hachan who's out to get Goku, Goku suddenly has a personal stake in all this. And when he sacrifices himself to give Gohan the advice he needs, it's actually a character that somewhat matters. It's not just this random guy we barely know.
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by rereboy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:29 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Now see, I always thought that #16 was a complete waste of a character. That is, there was already a character who existed who could have filled that same role, had that same gentle personality, had that same background, and would have actually elicited an emotional response from the characters and the audience: #8. It should have been written so that Dr. Gero found him, captured him, powered him up, and gave HIM an unswerving motivation to kill Son Goku. Goku felt so damned distant from this arc. Sure the initial motivation was to defeat him, but nearly all of the artificial humans stopped caring about that almost immediately. But if it's Hachan who's out to get Goku, Goku suddenly has a personal stake in all this. And when he sacrifices himself to give Gohan the advice he needs, it's actually a character that somewhat matters. It's not just this random guy we barely know.
That's good.

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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:30 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Now see, I always thought that #16 was a complete waste of a character. That is, there was already a character who existed who could have filled that same role, had that same gentle personality, had that same background, and would have actually elicited an emotional response from the characters and the audience: #8. It should have been written so that Dr. Gero found him, captured him, powered him up, and gave HIM an unswerving motivation to kill Son Goku. Goku felt so damned distant from this arc. Sure the initial motivation was to defeat him, but nearly all of the artificial humans stopped caring about that almost immediately. But if it's Hachan who's out to get Goku, Goku suddenly has a personal stake in all this. And when he sacrifices himself to give Gohan the advice he needs, it's actually a character that somewhat matters. It's not just this random guy we barely know.
Interesting idea, but one of the big problems with 16's death is how Gohan's anger explodes because of someone he doesn't know. Goku might have told his son about Ha-chan, but Gohan still doesn't know him.
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by rereboy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:33 pm

ABED wrote:Interesting idea, but one of the big problems with 16's death is how Gohan's anger explodes because of someone he doesn't know. Goku might have told his son about Ha-chan, but Gohan still doesn't know him.
But it would have created a greater response in the reader.

Gohan himself didn't need much, he was on the verge of transforming, seeing someone who was encouraging him be so ruthlessly killed was just the final drop.

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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:34 pm

Well, I'm not saying just copy and paste #8 into #16's spot. I'd actually want Goku and #8 to actually have to confront each other during the arc. The characters to have to get him back to their side first (again, rather than just have it sorta... happen... like it does in the actual story). That is a situation rife with dramatic possibilities, which were just squandered. And obviously I'd make it so that Gohan and #8 have screen time together before his death scene.
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:37 pm

rereboy wrote:
ABED wrote:Interesting idea, but one of the big problems with 16's death is how Gohan's anger explodes because of someone he doesn't know. Goku might have told his son about Ha-chan, but Gohan still doesn't know him.
But it would have created a greater response in the reader.

Gohan himself didn't need much, he was on the verge of transforming, seeing someone who was encouraging him be so ruthlessly killed was just the final drop.
But he wasn't hearing something he didn't already know. I think Trunks' would make for a better story.
Well, I'm not saying just copy and paste #8 into #16's spot. I'd actually want Goku and #8 to actually have to confront each other during the arc. The characters to have to get him back to their side first (again, rather than just have it sorta... happen... like it does in the actual story). That is a situation rife with dramatic possibilities, which were just squandered. And obviously I'd make it so that Gohan and #8 have screen time together before his death scene.
Ah, good idea. Also, if Gohan is going to take the hero role, then he should have more of a connection to Cell.
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Re: How would you have done the Cell arc?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:08 pm

I think would have made some minor tweaks to the layout of the actions most at the Cell games, it seemed a bit pointless having a tournament only for one person. I would have at least given Piccolo and Vegeta a second chance somehow to enter even if they were to lose again. Or give Vegeta a Zenkai Boost and Piccolo a new ability... its faretched but something.


And at the Point where Cell returns powered up Post-self destruction:
I would have had Trunks targeted for the death beam in the same way, but instead Gohan senses the death beam and tries to cover for trunks the way he did for Vegta originally, thus his arm is damaged... and him being too weak from it, he has trouble going SSj2 and sustaining full power. As Gohan gets his ass kicked, Vegeta gets anxious about Trunks dying and seeing the futility in Gohans fight with Goku also gone in vain... then Gohan loses his control and is knocked out and everyone panics. Goku from snakeway shouts for Gohan to get up... but Gohan cant seem to find the strength to go SSj2 again, his power has dropped due to his arm and Cell overpowering him... Vegeta panics and apologizes to Gohan as he did in the original... Trunks alerts Vegeta that Cell is coming toward them while he is lost in thought... Trunks is somehow killed right in front of Vegeta from behind as Vegeta finally snaps back into reality, he then makes his dub speech about Cell killing his son in the most dishonorable way but rather than charge in with a time-wasting ki spam fest... I would have had him get angry with Cell and spark abit like how Gohan did or go flat out SSJ2 at that point as everyone thought he should have, sure it would overwhelm Gohan's intended role but I just felt it fits better.
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