How would you have done the Cell arc?

[Fizzer]

Now see, I always thought that #16 was a complete waste of a character. That is, there was already a character who existed who could have filled that same role, had that same gentle personality, had that same background, and would have actually elicited an emotional response from the characters and the audience: #8. It should have been written so that Dr. Gero found him, captured him, powered him up, and gave HIM an unswerving motivation to kill Son Goku. Goku felt so damned distant from this arc. Sure the initial motivation was to defeat him, but nearly all of the artificial humans stopped caring about that almost immediately. But if it's Hachan who's out to get Goku, Goku suddenly has a personal stake in all this. And when he sacrifices himself to give Gohan the advice he needs, it's actually a character that somewhat matters. It's not just this random guy we barely know.

That is good, but there's something discomforting about taking someone from Dragon Ball's cheerful light-hearted era and thrusting them into something so tragic. It's kind of like what you said about imagining what happens to Penguin Village during the Buu arc.

[DBZ Mick]

Give Dr. Gero an in-depth backstory so we know his motivations, reasonings, anything to give him some character development.

Dr Gero already has a back story... He was a part of the Red Ribbon Army that Goku defeated as a kid, and he wants revenge. Goku took away his purpose in life, so his new purpose became killing Goku.

We don't even know that. Even so it's an incredibly flat backstory that could be elaborated further on.

[ABED]

Then what are you looking for out of a backstory? Revenge Is a good motivator, at least in fiction. Backstories are often overrated because it typically is some big event that claims to explain some behavior, but often doesn't.

[JamesOwnz]

This is interesting... makes me think what AT would have done originally with 19 and 20 who he said were the original big bads right?... Don't know how he stretches that out.

[DBZ Mick]

Then what are you looking for out of a backstory? Revenge Is a good motivator, at least in fiction. Backstories are often overrated because it typically is some big event that claims to explain some behavior, but often doesn't.

Yes, I agree about revenge but why does he want revenge on Goku? Is it simply just for destroying the RRA? What would he do if he found out what Red REALLY wanted with the Dragonballs. Like reasonings- I'm not sure if's dub only but I liked in GT is because he wanted to replace the human race with Artificial Humans.

[ABED]

Then what are you looking for out of a backstory? Revenge Is a good motivator, at least in fiction. Backstories are often overrated because it typically is some big event that claims to explain some behavior, but often doesn't.

Yes, I agree about revenge but why does he want revenge on Goku? Is it simply just for destroying the RRA? What would he do if he found out what Red REALLY wanted with the Dragonballs. Like reasonings- I'm not sure if's dub only but I liked in GT is because he wanted to replace the human race with Artificial Humans.

Red wasn't the entire army, Gero strikes me as someone that would've followed Black had Goku not killed him. Goku destroyed the RRA, that's good enough for me.

[SuperSaiyanOzaru]

If I could only make changes in the Cell Arc, here's what I'd do:

-Don't bring back Freeza or introduce King Cold. Freeza died on Planet Namek and had no family.
-Doctor Gero and the jinzoningen show up during the year when Goku's gone. They're not as strong as Freeza, although they can absorb ki. Piccolo, Gohan, and Vegeta are enough for any of them, except for Doctor Gero himself. He's more like Doctor Wheelo and ends up transforming into a huge robot-thing, and when he's fully charged he's about 30% as strong as Freeza. He's about to wipe out the Earth when Trunks appears, turns Super Saiyan, and destroys him effortlessly. Then Goku shows up and Trunks warns him about Cell.

-The Cell Saga proper takes place after Goku comes back. Instead of the androids showing up, it's Cell who mysteriously shows up and starts absorbing people. He doesn't need to absorb No. 17 and No. 18 to achieve his perfect form: he can absorb pretty much anyone, like Buu. He eventually does absorb enough people to become "perfect" and stronger than any of them. He proposes the Cell Games and the Cell Games themselves play out almost exactly the same as they did originally, minus No. 16.

-No. 18 is one of the jinzoningen that they fought before Goku got back, but was spared because she wasn't that bad and because Kuririn was of course smitted with her. She's strong but is probably only on par with one of the Ginyu Tokusentai, although she can absorb ki. She's not key to Cell's plans and is just the only surviving jinzoningen. One idea is that No. 17 also survives and the two of them have a special design where one of them can absorb the other and become way stronger: No. 17 can absorb No. 18 and become "Super No. 17", or vice-versa. No. 18 permanently absorbs No. 17 after he's irreparably injured by Cell and she does it to save his "life". She still looks mostly the same but is now as strong as perhaps 50% Freeza, and participates in the Cell Games. She's got mostly the same personality, though.

-Overall, I'd just make it so that none of the jinzoningen are as strong as Freeza or a Super Saiyan, but Cell is specially designed with Freeza's and the Saiyan's DNA, along with Piccolo's, so it makes sense that he'd be so freakishly strong. Plus he's designed to absorb other people and get stronger until he achieves perfection, rather than just absorbing No. 17 and 18. The overarching story would play out similarly, though: you'd still have the Cell Games and the Room of Spirit and Time, Trunks going back to his own time and wiping out Cell with his new-found power, Goku sacrificing himself and passing the torch to Gohan, and Vegeta swearing never to fight again. Piccolo still absorbs Kamisama and Dende comes over from Planet Nameka and becomes the new Kamisama.

-If I was allowed to change more than just the Cell Saga, I'd also make changes to the Freeza Saga and maybe the Saiyan Saga. I'd add Launch so that she's there watching the Saiyan battle at Kame House, and maybe goes with them to Planet Namek to wish back Tenshinhan and Chaotzu. She watches the Cell Games at Kame House with Bulma and Kamesennin, and when Tenshinhan says that he doubts any of them will see him and Chaotzu again, Launch vows to follow him wherever he goes.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

-Overall, I'd just make it so that none of the jinzoningen are as strong as Freeza or a Super Saiyan, but Cell is specially designed with Freeza's and the Saiyan's DNA, along with Piccolo's, so it makes sense that he'd be so freakishly strong.

So, how does Gero get Freeza's DNA if he never comes to Earth and all that?

[SuperSaiyanOzaru]

-Overall, I'd just make it so that none of the jinzoningen are as strong as Freeza or a Super Saiyan, but Cell is specially designed with Freeza's and the Saiyan's DNA, along with Piccolo's, so it makes sense that he'd be so freakishly strong.

So, how does Gero get Freeza's DNA if he never comes to Earth and all that?

I would've made it to where one of Doctor Gero's little drones followed Goku to Planet Namek and got DNA from Freeza. That was always a plot hole to me: that Doctor Gero just decides "Okay, I guess I know enough now" after Vegeta leaves Earth, and doesn't bother following anyone to Planet Namek. Wouldn't he be curious about what types of aliens are out there, and whether knowledge about Piccolo's home planet would be useful? So yeah, a little drone stows away on Goku's ship, watches him fight the Ginyu Tokusentai and Freeza, takes DNA from Freeza, and hides on the Ginyu ship that Goku uses to escape and stays there until he gets back to Earth. Maybe it observes the Yardratians but decides their DNA won't be useful, despite their interesting techniques. It gets back to Earth with Goku, and then flies off to Doctor Gero's lab. It's not like the time frame would be any different, since Gero wouldn't have had access to Freeza's cells until the day he and Goku came to Earth.

[rereboy]

I would've made it to where one of Doctor Gero's little drones followed Goku to Planet Namek and got DNA from Freeza. That was always a plot hole to me: that Doctor Gero just decides "Okay, I guess I know enough now" after Vegeta leaves Earth, and doesn't bother following anyone to Planet Namek. Wouldn't he be curious about what types of aliens are out there, and whether knowledge about Piccolo's home planet would be useful? So yeah, a little drone stows away on Goku's ship, watches him fight the Ginyu Tokusentai and Freeza, takes DNA from Freeza, and hides on the Ginyu ship that Goku uses to escape and stays there until he gets back to Earth. Maybe it observes the Yardratians but decides their DNA won't be useful, despite their interesting techniques. It gets back to Earth with Goku, and then flies off to Doctor Gero's lab. It's not like the time frame would be any different, since Gero wouldn't have had access to Freeza's cells until the day he and Goku came to Earth.

Its too farfetched to think that the drone would be able to escape Namek when SSJ Goku barely did it. It would have to move as fast as Goku.

[andrewtuell1991]

I have to agree that out of all the arcs in Dragon Ball, the Android/Cell arc is the most sloppily written, mostly due to Toriyama's then-editor forcing him to keep changing villains. But I believe the omission of one element that added a lot of unnecessary clutter could help create a more steamlined story: time-traveled and the annoying Future Trunks it brought with it.

Seriously, fuck Future Trunks. He's an annoying, angsty, border-line Mary Sue who barely contributes jackshit to the overall story and does nothing but whine and moan. He's my 3rd most hated character next to Broly and Kaioshit. Now, you're thinking how could the Cell arc function without the whiny little bishounen?

*No coming out of nowhere and one-upping the most powerful being in the universe and his father. Instead, after Freeza sends his henchmen out to destroy all the humans, Gohan rages and proceeds to attack them, blowing the Z-Warriors cover. This leads to a fight between the Z-Warriors and Freeza and King Cold. Yes, King Cold would actually get to fight, imagine that! After beating them within an itch of their life, Son Goku finally get close enough to the Earth to use his Shunkan Idou and kills the father and son duo with little to no effort. Enraged that Kakarot so easily beat someone almost killed him, Vegeta force Dr. Briefs to build him a 300x gravity machine so he can close the gap between himself and his rival. In my version, he's just been staying at Bulma's place for the whole year. The whole looking for Goku in space only exists in filler and manga never states one way or the other.

*I'm not sure how I'd start the 3-year time skip. Either:
a) they hear about mysterious attacks on the island via radio and/or TV and decide to investigate, or
b) they just happen to be on the island for some reason when the attacks start, similar to the Android 13 movie

Either way, the events happen the normal way, sans Yajirobe being there, up until they relocate the fight. In my version, instead of some random heart disease, Goku simply gets too cocky during his fight with 19 and lets his guard down resulting in him getting his energy-drained and knocked into a coma. Since Yajirobe wasn't there to give them senzu, things look bad until Vegeta shows up! Things continue their usual route until Gero releases 17 and 18 who in-turn release 16. Since no purple-haired pretty boy is around to warn them about how these two street-punks "RUINED MAH FUTURE", the fights between Vegeta and 18 and Piccolo and 17 happen simultaneously. Since this is before Piccolo merges with Kami, he doesn't fare quite as well this time.

*Now what about Cell you're asking? Without the time-travel elements I'd just make it so that the growth from Embryo to Larvae to 1st Form in the span of those three years. Come on, if Gero could take two hoodlums who were probably around Farmer with a Shotgun's battle power and make them stronger than Freeza, I don't think Cell's more rapid growth is that farfetched.

*After Goku wakes up from his coma, since Future Trunks doesn't exist Goku suggests that Vegeta and Piccolo go in RoSaT before him and Gohan. They both naturally hate the idea but Goku tells 'em to suck it up and deal with it. Since Piccolo is training in Rosat, it's Tenshinhan and Yamucha who have to deal with the Androids upon arriving to Roshi's house while Kuririn goes to fetch the remote as usual. After Cell shows up, instead of blasting Piccolo thought the chest it's Yamucha and he actually dies from it. Why the hell not, it's not like he does anything of significance for the rest of this arc or the next arc. Cell absorbs 17, damages 16, and is held back by Tenshinhan giving 16 and 18 chance to escape, is saved by Goku and then Piccolo and Vegeta emerge Rosat.

*The fight between Cell and Vegeta is pretty much the same until Perfect Cell knocks Vegeta out. Piccolo steps in and quickly realizes he's not quite up to par as his Saiyan rival was and eventually concedes. Rather than killing him on the spot, it is Piccolo whom Cell delivers the news of the Cell Game.

*The events continue the same up until Goku's sacrifice, although I guess the Cell Jr count would drop from 7 to 5. Instead of one-shotting a time-traveling twerp and enraging Vegeta and breaking Gohan's arm then and there, an actual fight would occur between SSJ2 Gohan and Super Perfect Cell. After roughly 2 chapter/half an episodes Cell manages to land a decisive kick/punch/ki blast/whatever and breaks Gohan's arm. Gohan wusses out, dead Goku talks him out of it, Kamehameha battle, and all of Cell 's victim are resurrected. This time, the epilogue would not consist of Future Trunks saving a future that hasn't been developed enough, especially in the manga, for the audience to give a shit about. Instead have things like everyone adjusting life without Goku, maybe some scenes of Kuririn trying to pursue 18, and I'd have it end with Goten being born. I just thought his introduction in the Buu arc was rushed and lackluster.

[DBZAOTA482]

That sounds even more disjointed than the actual thing (except the SSJ2 Gohan vs SPC part) but since you dissed Kaioshin (or Kaioshits as I like to call him) so it's all cool.

[Kid Buu]

Yeah Future Trunks is one of my least favourite characters. I like his rivalry with Vegeta, but that seems more for Vegeta's character arc than his.

[MysticVegeta]

I'd keep Cell as it is. Dragon Ball Z at it's best.

I'd change a lot about the Freeza Arc though

[DBZ Mick]

I think the only thing the Freeza arc needs is some better structuring around the whole fight with Freeza (Even so I enjoyed the whole battle), apart from that and maybe the constant zenkais, the Namek and Freeza arcs are leaps and bounds better than the Artificial Human and Cell arcs in terms of plot, character usage, fights etc.

[Fizzer]

For the Freeza arc, I'd just make the last few zenkais less ridiculous. Freeza would not state his power level as "530,000" or "over a million". Goku's last Zenkai could take him from 90,000 to 100,000, making him 2,000,000 at 20x Kaio-ken and 5,000,000 as a super Saiyan. Freeza's full power would be just under five million.

I may also reduce the number of forms that Freeza has to two, because once the fight with him starts his first and third accomplish nothing but drawing out the fight even more. He could stay in his first form, rather than his second, while he fights Piccolo, then transform into his true form rather than spend one episode in his third then transform again for no reason. I think this might help to streamline the battle a bit more.

[thatdbzguy]

does nothing but whine and moan.

He tried to prevent that timeline from suffering the same fate as his and tried to stop his father from being an idiot and flying off starting fights on his own, increasing his chance of death.

I think his "whining and moaning" is justified.

[Fizzer]

does nothing but whine and moan.

He tried to prevent that timeline from suffering the same fate as his and tried to stop his father from being an idiot and flying off starting fights on his own, increasing his chance of death.

I think his "whining and moaning" is justified.

Yeah, Trunks is a tragic character. His entire world has been torture, so nothing is more important to him than preventing it from happening again.

[thatdbzguy]

It bothers me how the Cell arc does absolutely nothing good. Everything about it is sloppy, forced, messy writing that reaches a new low even for Toriyama. The Buu saga was better written the Cell, and that's just sad.

[Fizzer]

It bothers me how the Cell arc does absolutely nothing good. Everything about it is sloppy, forced, messy writing that reaches a new low even for Toriyama. The Buu saga was better written the Cell, and that's just sad.

The trouble may be that Toriyama was forced to retcon stuff so many times. Maybe if he'd been left to his own devices the Cell arc would have been of the same quality as the previous ones, but it was all over the place. By the second half of the Buu arc, Toriyama was getting really tired of constantly writing Dragon Ball, he was getting sloppy because he was ready for a long break. Maybe he was even getting ready to leave during the Cell arc, which might be another contributor to its perceived "poor writing". I certainly don't think it's a coincidence that these two arcs are the ones that people regularly complain about and this is also the point at which Toriyama felt he wasn't able to keep up with the work anymore.