Has TFS damaged the reputation of the franchise in the U.S.?

[Kamiccolo9]

I see this sentiment being brought up fairly often, and while, personally, while I just don't see it, I imagine that there may possibly be a sliver of truth in this? I know that some members on this forum feel this way, and I'd like for them to explain their thoughts.

For me, TFS, along with Kanzenshuu itself, are what brought me back into the fandom after having stopped caring about Dragon Ball for years. But it seems that some people take serious offense to it, and I'd be very interested in hearing why.

[VegettoEX]

I haven't seen these types of comments and don't follow the logic.

There are fans of the franchise that say TeamFourStar's production of Dragon Ball Z Abridged has hurt the reputation of the franchise itself in America...?

What do they feel the reputation was before, and how has it been damaged?

[Blade]

No way, if anything - Team Four Star has made Dragonball relevant to a whole new generation of anime fans in the UK, especially in the con scene, who otherwise wouldn't have had any interaction with the franchise.

[Dbzfan94]

I personally don't see it, but seeing TFS comments on every DBZ YouTube video is annoying.
I recently posted a comment on a video, the person replied with a comment completely in related to what was saying with a TFS quote.

Also you have the people who purely watch the Abridged, and never seen / don't want to see/ don't like the real series.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Eh, honestly - and this is coming from someone that's closer to a defender of that material than just about anyone else on this board - if the early FUNi in-house dub didn't completely kill the franchise (seeing as how we continue to get new stuff for it here, it didn't), or Evolution, then nothing will.

Now, that said, TFS has had an effect on the more casual fans, one that I don't blame them for because it wasn't their intention, it just sorta...happened. The main thing I've seen it do is hype up characters like Nappa and the Grand Elder (or Guru) to a degree that they might not have been otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love what they did with those two characters in particular...but for Nappa at least, I've personally seen it get out of hand.

The main time I saw it happen was a year or two ago on the FUNimation Forums, during a user-run tournament there. The theme of the tournament was 'Best Anime Villains', and nominations were taken. Nappa ended up being one of the nominations for DBZ. Okay, no problem there, he's a villain, it's a legit entry. What started to be a little suspect though was when he bulldozed his way past arguably more iconic villains like, say, Aizen from Bleach, or Orochimaru from Naruto. It was all down to user votes, so nothing outright shady was going on...but it was a little depressing when you'd see Nappa win with posts along the way quoting his TFS lines. Basically, he was winning because of TFS Nappa, who was not in the tournament, rather than real Nappa, who was. Yeah, the tournament was just for fun and all, there's no prize other than bragging rights at the end of the day...but it was still a little awkward (thankfully, he did end up losing along the way, but I forget to whom it was).

Again, that's entirely on the fans who take it a little too far though, TFS themselves are at no fault for a situation like that.

[Kamiccolo9]

I haven't seen these types of comments and don't follow the logic.

There are fans of the franchise that say TeamFourStar's production of Dragon Ball Z Abridged has hurt the reputation of the franchise itself in America...?

What do they feel the reputation was before, and how has it been damaged?

Quotes like these

I'm just saying why I don't like TFS at all. I never said anything about you guys stopping talk about TFS. I've stated my opinion here. I don't like them. I don't think of their voices when reading the lines in manga (or fan-comic). But one thing I will agree with you about official- both fan-manga and parody series aren't official. But there's difference between these two. Salagir's fan-manga doesn't overshadow the original manga by Toriyama. It will never happen even if it became hugely popular. TFS, on other hand, could potentially prevent the popularity in the dub itself. It does make me sad that some of them actually prefer TFS cast over the official one, even if they've made a huge leap in handling the voice work. It's why I have a strong feeling against TFS.

DB is a cherished icon of manga that inspired many new artists.
DBZ is more of a novelty joke in America as Sailolrmoon is, people only remember it through their childhood, and percieve it as a self-parody show more so now enforced by TFS. Most Western fans laugh at the series for things Filler did or the ignorant memes they created for it. Most western fans dom't even accept that DBZ does have a plot and depth to the characters. They just see the show is that goofy show where buff guys scream for 5 episodes to get longer hair. Even though thats a meme, that stuff never actually happened.

Specifically the bolded portions indicate to me that there is at least some sentiment against TFS due to it's effect on the perception of the the English dubs, or to the show as a whole. Maybe I worded the title incorrectly, but I'm just trying to get further elaboration on these points.

[Weejus]

No way, if anything - Team Four Star has made Dragonball relevant to a whole new generation of anime fans in the UK, especially in the con scene, who otherwise wouldn't have had any interaction with the franchise.

I wouldn't be nearly as much into Dragon Ball as I am now has TFS not existed. I never grew up with the series due to there being no domestic release in the UK until the OBs came out (in...2012), I only had Budokai 1.

[Blade]

No way, if anything - Team Four Star has made Dragonball relevant to a whole new generation of anime fans in the UK, especially in the con scene, who otherwise wouldn't have had any interaction with the franchise.

I wouldn't be nearly as much into Dragon Ball as I am now has TFS not existed. I never grew up with the series due to there being no domestic release in the UK until the OBs came out (in...2012), I only had Budokai 1.

Exactly, Team Four Star's influence in penetrating into the 'post-TV syndication' generation can't be underestimated. The Dragonball fandom in the UK simply wouldn't exist in younger people otherwise.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Y'know...somebody once asked Dan Green, the English dub voice of the main character on "Yu-Gi-Oh!" how he felt about "Yu-Gi-Oh! Abridged," and his response is a quote that I loved and have brought up countless times since when discussing parodies. He said...

"It's my opinion that, no matter how much you love something, there's something to be made fun of about it."

Truer words have never been spoken. Say what you will about DBZ, but as with any show, there's stuff here and there that, when judged outside the context of its own universe, is rather silly. I mean, Goku came from a planet where the people are named after vegetables...interesting and unique in the show itself, but if that happened in the real world, I wouldn't be shaking in fear of any opponent named "Vegeta."

I effin' love "DBZ Abridged," but it's crystal-clear to me that the guys at TFS love the show, and that their show, beyond being a parody, is also somewhat of a homage/tribute. I'm sure there will be a small sliver of fans out there who believe that any kind of parody constitutes an intentional insult, but those people are in the minority, because the vast majority of people get the difference between a parody and an intentional insult.

[Kamiccolo9]

Y'know...somebody once asked Dan Green, the English dub voice of the main character on "Yu-Gi-Oh!" how he felt about "Yu-Gi-Oh! Abridged," and his response is a quote that I loved and have brought up countless times since when discussing parodies. He said...

"It's my opinion that, no matter how much you love something, there's something to be made fun of about it."

Truer words have never been spoken. Say what you will about DBZ, but as with any show, there's stuff here and there that, when judged outside the context of its own universe, is rather silly. I mean, Goku came from a planet where the people are named after vegetables...interesting and unique in the show itself, but if that happened in the real world, I wouldn't be shaking in fear of any opponent named "Vegeta."

I effin' love "DBZ Abridged," but it's crystal-clear to me that the guys at TFS love the show, and that their show, beyond being a parody, is also somewhat of a homage/tribute. I'm sure there will be a small sliver of fans out there who believe that any kind of parody constitutes an intentional insult, but those people are in the minority, because the vast majority of people get the difference between a parody and an intentional insult.

I fully agree with you, and that is an excellent quote.

About your last point, those are the people I'd like to hear from. Why would somebody consider it an insult? Why is it bad for somebody to prefer a parody over the actual thing? Why is it an inherently bad thing for a parody to become more popular than the actual work (I'm not saying that Abridged will, but that was mentioned in one of the posts I quoted)? I'd like to hear the reasonings behind these thoughts.

[Hellspawn28]

I remember in my local anime/manga club had people making TFS jokes when we show a episode of the original Dragon Ball. I do feel like people will crack jokes that they see on the Internet. I still see people making Over 9000 jokes when though that meme been around since 2006.

[Ajay]

I think it's damaged it in the sense that I've seen a horrible amount of comments saying things like 'It's the best way to enjoy the show', 'it's better than Kai' and 'I don't know how anyone watches the original anymore'.

Heck, just the other day, I saw someone on the DBZ subreddit recommending a newcomer to watch TFS instead of Z! It had the most upvotes. Anyone arguing against it was downvoted. Sure, it's /r/DBZ, it's not exactly a great community but even for them, that was a pretty ridiculous.

Perceptions of characters have been horribly skewed too. Numerous casual fans mistake TFS's portrayals of characters as accurate and it's just a real shame that it's somehow happened.

TFS is hilarious. They're professional and they do a great job, it's just a shame that popularity has led to this amongst casual fans.

[Wibbs]

I don't have a problem with TFS, I just tend to dislike the more obnoxious and uninformed part of their fanbase. What I mean by that is when you try to talk to someone on say Youtube for example and it spirals into a debate, it really ticks me off when someone will yell out a quote to either derail the argument or as a means of debunking what you said and winning the argument.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Excellent point Paladin. Hell, I don't really think I can enjoy something if I don't also poke a little fun at it at times. That's half the fun of being into anything if you ask me.

Also, since we've pretty much come to the point that it is mostly some of the TFS fans making it bad moreso than TFS themselves...there was the whole thing with someone asking what Schemmel thought of Abridged at that big con that also had Nozawa, when Nozawa was right there. I couldn't help but shake my head at that either. There's seriously not a million better questions that couldn't be asked at that moment, and save that one for another time when it was just Schemmel? Hell, a question like that could be asked (and undoubtedly has) just by asking him online.

[Codarik]

TFS is funny. I watch each episode that gets released. But some comments that I've seen fans comment are annoying, like someone else said, seeing TFS quotes on every DBZ video is irritating, and I've seen people comment saying TFS is better than the actual series, that makes me sick.

[Kamiccolo9]

and I've seen people comment saying TFS is better than the actual series, that makes me sick.

This. This is what I'm wanting to hear thoughts on. Why is this such a bad thing? I mean, I prefer Robin Hood: Men in Tights to any of the "real" Robin Hood movies or stories I've seen. What's so bad about that?

[Polyphase Avatron]

TFS is hilarious and has probably brought new fans to the series just like Yugioh Abridged did

[Black_Anime_Fan]

Pretty much just beating a dead horse here when I say I have nothing against TFS but shit man...fanbases.

[KaiserNeko]

I think we're the best thing since sliced bread. Bigger than Jesus. The light in the darkness. Taller than the Osmands.

We're also not a fan of how our fanbase can often overstate our quality, our impact, our importance, etc. We're a fangroup making a (albeit increasingly popular) parody series that is both a piss-take and an homage to one of our favorite series of all time. It's very far from perfect and it's not definitive, though we sure as heck enjoy making it. We do wish our fans would promote the original series a little heavier at times rather than act like we're a replacement. We're supplementary, meant to be enjoyed as a fan of the ORIGINAL, first and foremost.

Either way, those fans have good intentions; they want to spread something they love and we certainly appreciate that. Just hope that, at no point, the series itself suffers.

Oh, and as far as us propagating dubism and misconceptions about the series... yeah, we worry about that at times, but ultimately we're trying to do the best we can with trying to make fun of both the original and the dub.

[Kaboom]

If anything, Team Four Star has taken the already-damaged thanks to the old dub Western reputation of DBZ and made something come from it.