Do you think Dragon Ball had too much perv moments ?

[Fionordequester]

Well, I, uh, wouldn't go that far at all and actually think you're conflating two different things, one of which is actually harmful and one of which is an individual moral/sexual prerogative.

Well, I mean, obviously there are exceptions, like if that nudity is somehow necessary to the story. But I can't think of many situations where drawing a naked woman wouldn't be the author just wanting to...well, draw a naked woman, like your typical Frank Miller comic these days.

[Ringworm128]

In real life feeling up a girl without her permission is wrong and could cause sever emotional damage. But in DB it's nothing more than silly antics. The characters barely give a crap, so why should we? Did Bulma need counciling after accidentally showing her privates?

Counter-point: Fiction informs our views of the world, and chalking things up to humor, especially with young audiences, can diminish the severity of very damaging practices in the real world, especially ones so often disregarded in the first place.

Again, Dragon Ball's pretty good with its female characters for its age and genre. I don't even mind some (some) of Kame Sennin's antics. But it is one of the few elements of the series I think is overplayed and truly harmful.

Oh please not the "if little johny sees boobs he'll become a rapist" logic.

Well, I mean, obviously there are exceptions, like if that nudity is somehow necessary to the story. But I can't think of many situations where drawing a naked woman wouldn't be the author just wanting to...well, draw a naked woman, like your typical Frank Miller comic these days.

And if the author wants to draw a naked woman or man he/she should be allowed to. It's his work and he should be able to write, draw direct etc how he wants.

[Rocketman]

Oh please not the "if little johny sees boobs he'll become a rapist" logic.

Kids can and do imitate what they see in media.

[Ringworm128]

Oh please not the "if little johny sees boobs he'll become a rapist" logic.

Kids can and do imitate what they see in media.

"Hey! Roshi get's hit on the head or yelled at every time he grabs a girls boob. I'm gonna try that on mommy." And even if they do copy stuff that's what parents are for, to correct them and teach their kids right and wrong.

[Cipher]

"Hey! Roshi get's hit on the head or yelled at every time he grabs a girls boob. I'm gonna try that on mommy."

I didn't say that and that's a stupid thing to say.

What it does is trivialize the experiences of women who are actually touched or anything else against their will, or even just constantly bombarded with that kind of attention. It doesn't mean he's going to imitate it, but it does mean he's more likely to view it as not that serious. Both American and Japanese cultures really are blase about that type of thing, so I'm not sure where you're going for.

Dragon Ball is more a representation of its era and culture here than anything else, and it's not even a particularly egregious offender, but that doesn't mean it's above criticism.

[Fionordequester]

And if the author wants to draw a naked woman or man he/she should be allowed to. It's his work and he should be able to write, draw direct etc how he wants.

Well sure. Doesn't mean it's healthy.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I would have to agree with ringworm on this one. Even though kids do tend to imitate what they see in media, it's not right to blame fictional material for what goes wrong with someone. It's the parent's jobs to teach the difference between fact and fiction, and not use the TV as an unchecked babysitter. That's what's so annoying to me about a lot of parents nowadays.

And I for one see nothing unhealthy at all with enjoying the occasional naked artwork. So long as you don't let it control your life, it's hardly a mental issue.

[Fizzer]

The whole naked artwork thing comes down to whether or not nudity itself is inherently wrong, again. Until God publicly descends from heaven and declares that the naked body is objectively evil, I won't see art of naked people as any more harmful than art of naked potatoes.

[Fionordequester]

The whole naked artwork thing comes down to whether or not nudity itself is inherently wrong, again. Until God publicly descends from heaven and declares that the naked body is objectively evil, I won't see art of naked people as any more harmful than art of naked potatoes.

I'm not even saying that it's evil, I'm saying that I think it's unhealthy outside of a committed relationship, the same way pills are unhealthy when used incorrectly. Because, and this is just my theorizing (feel free to correct me)...

1) You're a bachelor, longing for someone. Looking at porn or such things (or at least, making a habit of it) is only going to make that longing worse.

2) You ARE in a comitted relationship, at which point, you shouldn't have eyes for anyone but your partner.

Either way, unless you're asexual, or looking at whatever naked bodies are of a gender that doesn't turn you on, well, I'm not seeing the positives here.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

As a few other people have expressed, I have no problem with the kid Goku/Gohan nudity. It's been said they live in the country, but really, they live in the damn wilderness (okay, they have a house, but a house in the middle of nowhere, near the jungle). Plus, they're pre-pubescent. That said, I think the series could've benefited from fewer titty shots/titty grabbings. On one hand, I don't find the situations that funny, but that's a personal thing. Regardless of how you feel about it, sensibilities have changed, even in Japan, so it does make that part of the series feel dated (unlike DBZ) and more difficult for new audiences to get into. To use an example we all know, it's true that Naruto has the sexy jutsu and there are some questionable moments involving Jiraya, Naruto's teacher, but there's no groping and certainly no nudity from what I've seen (I could be wrong though. I'm open to being proved wrong by someone who's seen more of Naruto than I have).

[superfunk]

2) You ARE in a comitted relationship, at which point, you shouldn't have eyes for anyone but your partner.

.

That's far away from human nature, you shouldn't act on it, but your eyes are definitely gonna wander.

[rereboy]

Oh please not the "if little johny sees boobs he'll become a rapist" logic.

Kids can and do imitate what they see in media.

Only if they have an abnormal understanding and comprehension of fiction versus reality.

2) You ARE in a comitted relationship, at which point, you shouldn't have eyes for anyone but your partner.

Er... What? Its actually healthy to not be that obsessive about your partner. Its healthy to be able to notice if other people are attractive and continue to appreciate the body of the opposite sex in general. All these are healthy signs. The opposite? Not so much and usually indicative of something abnormal.

Relationships are about trust. As is "I trust you to not betray me and screw around". Its has nothing to do with only looking at your partner. That would just be obsessive. And someone asking that of his/her partner is also being somewhat obsessive and not really trusting her/his partner.

The whole naked artwork thing comes down to whether or not nudity itself is inherently wrong, again. Until God publicly descends from heaven and declares that the naked body is objectively evil, I won't see art of naked people as any more harmful than art of naked potatoes.

I agree completely. Naked bodies are just a natural thing that has nothing to do with evil.

[Gyt Kaliba]

2) You ARE in a comitted relationship, at which point, you shouldn't have eyes for anyone but your partner.

That depends entirely on the couple in question. My girlfriend and I are both of the opinion that it's more unhealthy not to be able to admit when we find other people attractive. Hell, we know all of each others "crushes", both fictional and otherwise, and often tease each other about them. It doesn't make us any less faithful to each other - just gives us even more to discuss.

[Ringworm128]

You're a bachelor, longing for someone. Looking at porn or such things (or at least, making a habit of it) is only going to make that longing worse.

Heck no, I have no intention of getting into a relationship, no matter how nice she is. I try to stay in the "like my dad zone"

[Fionordequester]

I believe you are misunderstanding me. When I say "have eyes for no one else", I mean don't purposefully fantasize about the beauty of some other woman. Yes, of course your hormones are going to make you occasionally look at other men and women, that's just part of your sexual nature. But I believe there's a difference between occasionally glancing over at someone for a few seconds, and actually picturing a naked man/woman in your mind as you're drawing him/her.

Again, unless there's some really important reason it has to be that way, I believe one is hurting him/herself by doing so.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Thanks for the clarification, but that still gels pretty much with what I thought you meant anyway, so I still find myself disagreeing. But again, I guess it'd just be something up to each individual couple.

[TheGmGoken]

I hope this isn't to graphic and if it is. I'll gladly remove it. But if you think DB have to much perv moments then unless you mean from the CAST then you need to watch(Or ignore rather) Anime-manga like these.

It's nothing much. BASIC fan-service. Not like Highschool of the Dead which IMHO is the KING of fanservice.

Spoiler:

[Fionordequester]

I hope this isn't to graphic and if it is. I'll gladly remove it. But if you think DB have to much perv moments then unless you mean from the CAST then you need to watch(Or ignore rather) Anime-manga like these.

It's nothing much. BASIC fan-service. Not like Highschool of the Dead which IMHO is the KING of fanservice.

Spoiler:

Well...I didn't check it out (what is it, a woman undressing?). But I will say that even though Captain Buggy from One Piece is a real swell dude compared to Ted Bundy...that still doesn't mean that he's a good guy, you know what I'm saying?

Still, I get what you're saying. Whatever faults Dragon Ball had in this area, it wasn't all that bad...and I guess I'd have to agree once we get past the first story arc, with Oolong being a pervert and naked breasts showing and all that stuff.

[Xell]

Let's just say I wouldn't want to watch any uncut Dragonball in front of my family.

It seems unacceptable the way Roshi is portrayed in the anime, and some of the stuff mentioned in this thread (Oolong wanting to drug Bulma.. I forgot about that..) are pretty disgraceful. I guess the only way one can justify it is by saying "these characters get what's coming to them".

[TheGmGoken]

Let's just say I wouldn't want to watch any uncut Dragonball in front of my family.

It seems unacceptable the way Roshi is portrayed in the anime, and some of the stuff mentioned in this thread (Oolong wanting to drug Bulma.. I forgot about that..) are pretty disgraceful. I guess the only way one can justify it is by saying "these characters get what's coming to them".

I guess it all depends on the family. Or even perhaps the gender. To me watching anime is like being at a barber shop. NOTHING is hidden(To a degreee). You got male and female fan-service. Roshi...being a pervert. Nothing is hidden. So maybe if your family understood it to that level or it just didn't bother them then maybe they'll feel different. I mean Glen(Family Guy) Q. was going to do the same thing in Family Guy. I mean it's just a Sex Joke but in a little more....dirty and rude way. I honestly found most of the perv moments in DB funny.