New Animation VS Old Animation

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Flame Dragon
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New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Flame Dragon » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:47 pm

Why can't i manage to like the new animation style?
I just hate the new animation style, it's too bright, the characters outlines are too marked and it looks like all characters are just... drawings on top of a shiny background.

Not to mention battle damage looks much worse and less realistic. It gets even worse on far away shots since everybody looks like a blob of goo.I can't even explain why i find the new animation style... off... and ugly looking.If i had to make a comparison...
Old Style: Looks pretty colorful but can also be gritty when needed.
New Style: Looks like it was drew on MS Paint.

I don't know why it just bothers me like hell, everytime i watch something new, it just doesn't look right to me. It feels lifeless, the palette is too bright for it's own good, the drawings feel worse and it just seems to lack emotion.

I watch plenty of new anime stuff without a problem, i like it quite a lot in fact (FMA Brotherhood, Death Note, Naruto are all pretty gorgeous most of the time), it's just the new Toei art style that i can't stomach.

Episode of Bardock looks really ugly, really lifeless.
Son Goku and Friends Return looked decent, probably the best new animation we got.
Battle of Gods looks kinda bad, for a movie that is, i only liked the animation for Beerus Palace and the final fight in space (both had a darker color palette, go figure)
Ultimate Tenkaichi cutscenes were kinda badly drawed.
I watched some random scenes from Toriko and i think what i have seen looks atrocious.
The Toriko X One Piece X Dragonball crossover looked godawful.
The DB Kai opening and eyecatches i liked, probably because they didn't blind you with their palette.

I hate the bright color palette, characters designs and drawings, the thick lines, the lack of detail and shading, the way SSJ hair is drawn, the lack of battle damage and injuries, the overall lifelessness of everything...honestly i don't think i can find anything i enjoy out from the new style.

Anyone else agrees with me? Is the new animation just really bad or it's just me that can't stand it?

It has come to the point that i'm glad Kai remastered old animation because i'm afraid if they reanimated the whole thing it would have looked absolutely horrible.

This comparison pretty much sums everything i find wrong with the new animation style Toei uses.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by InfernalVegito » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:50 pm

I agree. I don't like it either for all the reasons you mentioned. It looks too cheap.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by RocktheDragon » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:55 pm

I thoroughly enjoyed BOG animation but I was probably way too excited that I was watching a new DB film to care about the animation at the time. Totally reminds me that I should give it a re-watch sometime very soon...

Nothing beats the old style animation though. The way that technology has made the process of animating easier is definitely a plus for those involved in the process but it just takes something away from the "magic" that is there with old school techniques of animating before the advent of technological aid. Most modern looking animes are a real put off for me even though I can still enjoy them. Nothing beats an episode of DB or Yu Yu Hakusho for me.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by TenshiGokuu » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:22 pm

I like cells eye pupils in the old animation, they look more fiercer. Now how i feel about the whole new and old animation, i honestly grew up with original dragon ball that came out in 1984, and just judging by the whole goku character, he has changed a lot. not just by the age or looks but also mostly his by different voice actors he had. i prefer japanese goku because he feels more original and more gokuish, also i like the king kai japanese dub over english. I prefer original DB and DBZ made by japanese.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by FortuneSSJ » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:33 pm

The thing I dislike most in animation nowadays is the CGI use.
When bad used (most of the time) looks horrible.

Battle of Gods unfortunately had one of these moments.

3:17 - 3:23
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:09 pm

RocktheDragon wrote:I thoroughly enjoyed BOG animation but I was probably way too excited that I was watching a new DB film to care about the animation at the time. Totally reminds me that I should give it a re-watch sometime very soon...

Nothing beats the old style animation though. The way that technology has made the process of animating easier is definitely a plus for those involved in the process but it just takes something away from the "magic" that is there with old school techniques of animating before the advent of technological aid. Most modern looking animes are a real put off for me even though I can still enjoy them. Nothing beats an episode of DB or Yu Yu Hakusho for me.
Modern digital technology has nothing to do with it. Yamamuro Tadayoshi and a plethora of bad key animators are the reason the modern stills look bad. Yamamuro's character designs have changed, he corrects key animators to stay on his models, and most animators are bad anyway. The actual animation from good animators like Oonishi Ryou (Bardock versus Chilled) or Shida Naotoshi (Gokuu and Beers flying through the Earth into space) is leagues above what the old films and television shows had.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:18 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
RocktheDragon wrote:I thoroughly enjoyed BOG animation but I was probably way too excited that I was watching a new DB film to care about the animation at the time. Totally reminds me that I should give it a re-watch sometime very soon...

Nothing beats the old style animation though. The way that technology has made the process of animating easier is definitely a plus for those involved in the process but it just takes something away from the "magic" that is there with old school techniques of animating before the advent of technological aid. Most modern looking animes are a real put off for me even though I can still enjoy them. Nothing beats an episode of DB or Yu Yu Hakusho for me.
Modern digital technology has nothing to do with it. Yamamuro Tadayoshi and a plethora of bad key animators are the reason the modern stills look bad. Yamamuro's character designs have changed, he corrects key animators to stay on his models, and most animators are bad anyway. The actual animation from good animators like Oonishi Ryou (Bardock versus Chilled) or Shida Naotoshi (Gokuu and Beers flying through the Earth into space) is leagues above what the old films and television shows had.
Who did the animation for the Ultimate Tenkaichi opening and the segment of Goku VS Beerus where FLOW's HERO plays?
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by SSJ3_Zack » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:24 pm

I wish the newer stuff had a similar style to Yo! Son Goku & his friends return. I really prefer that style compared to Episode of Bardock and Battle of Gods.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by TheAldella » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:33 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Who did the animation for the Ultimate Tenkaichi opening and the segment of Goku VS Beerus where FLOW's HERO plays?
I second this. That Goku model for the first bit before the Dragon Ball Z logo comes in in the UT opening was the best I think I've ever seen.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by El Diabeetus » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:39 pm

TheAldella wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Who did the animation for the Ultimate Tenkaichi opening and the segment of Goku VS Beerus where FLOW's HERO plays?
I second this. That Goku model for the first bit before the Dragon Ball Z logo comes in in the UT opening was the best I think I've ever seen.
The Hero part is what JulieYBM was talking about, that was Naotoshi Shida, the Ultimate Tenkiachi/Blast, I'm not sure.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:49 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Who did the animation for the Ultimate Tenkaichi opening and the segment of Goku VS Beerus where FLOW's HERO plays?
The HERO cuts were the work of Shida Naotoshi, a veteran animator who used to work on the Last House episodes of the first two series. For the Ultimate Blast Opening and cut scenes:

Character Design and Animation Supervisor: Yamamuro Tadayoshi

Key Animation: Ootsuka Ken
Kanno Toshiyuki
Wada Takaaki
Tate Naoki
Kawamura Atsuko
Kurita Shin’ichi
Komino Masahiko
Shida Naotoshi
Oonishi Ryou
Satou Masayuki
Nakajima Daisuke
Watanabe Nobuhiro
Nakamura Noriko
Miura Takahiro
Oota Akihiro
Kishita Kazue
Kamata Hitoshi
Oota Kenji
Karasawa Yu’ichi
Yabumoto Yousuke
Maeshima Hiroshi
Shoda Takahiro
Suwa Madoka
Pol Anonuevo
Francis Caneda
Rhem Valencia
Victor Balanon
Noel Anonuevo
Alfredo Reyes
Yamamuro Tadayoshi

Opening Animation Storyboards and Direction by: Nagamine Tatsuya
Storyboards by Ueda Yoshihiro
Director: Gotou Yasunori

The Director for the Opening Animation was the director of One Piece Film Z.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by DarkPrince_92 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:58 pm

Something I've been saying since that remake of Zetsumetsu Keikakku. I'd much rather watch the original because of the beautiful Seigasha animation (even though they cheated a shit ton throughout). The new animation has it's pros and cons. A major pro would be the fluidity and motion we get now, shouts out to Naotoshi, and how clean and crisp it looks. A con is all the characters looking flat, and "Adobe Flash" quality.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by TheAldella » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:58 pm

JulieYBM wrote:The Director for the Opening Animation was the director of One Piece Film Z.
Yeah, that'd do it.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:29 pm

DarkPrince_92 wrote:Something I've been saying since that remake of Zetsumetsu Keikakku. I'd much rather watch the original because of the beautiful Seigasha animation (even though they cheated a shit ton throughout). The new animation has it's pros and cons. A major pro would be the fluidity and motion we get now, shouts out to Naotoshi, and how clean and crisp it looks. A con is all the characters looking flat, and "Adobe Flash" quality.
Both the original and the remake had a very small number of drawings allowed. I don't think the original was very good because Hisada and Shimanuki really didn't have enough drawings to do their usual level of work.

The key animation credits for the remake are available here. Yamamuro Tadayoshi is listed as the top key animator, but that might not be indicative of the number of cuts he himself did so much as being a nod to his providing animation corrections. Hakamada Yuuji (from the Studio Carpenter episodes of Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT), Ootsuka Ken, and Shida Naotoshi are the only other key animators I recognize. Shida Naotoshi did the final attack on Hacchihyakku, but you can tell he was hit hard by a lack of drawings and little room to adapt his layouts to look better. Director Ueda Yoshihiro was too reliant on Yama'uchi Shigeyasu's storyboards for the original.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by TheGmGoken » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:42 pm

The old animation is better by far. More details and more damage on characters. I don't like how everyone looks so shiny in the NA. However auras and SSJ looks better on NA. However just give me Budokai 2 , Budokai 3, or Path to power animation. YSGAFR is neutral IMO.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by kei17 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:08 am

Though I personally dislike Yamamuro's art style which is too rounded and far from Toriyama's original style, differences in "styles" are relative that they cannot be directly connected with quality of art. In fact, I love Masahiro Shimanuki's style and it's very different from Toriyama's.

However, when it comes to Yamamuro's recent drawings, their biggest problem is that they're just poorly drawn. It's a matter lies beyond personal preferences. He is absolutely bad like Masayuki Uchiyama was. For example, in the case of that Cell shot in the OP, these parts are very awkward in comparison to the original:

Image
Image

1) The eyes are asymmetric.
2) The cheeks are unsymmetrically shaded.
3) The bridge of his nose is straight.
4) The right brow ridge looks flat.
5) The right ear is significantly smaller.
6) Adam's apple doesn't turn over by twisting neck sideways.
7) The sternocleidomastoid muscles are wrongly placed.
8) The entire face is too wide.

In short, he sucks at drawing the human body.

I corrected these parts by roughly photoshopping the image in a few minutes and the result no more bothers me.

Image
Image
Last edited by kei17 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Ajay » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:22 am

Quite interesting how much of a difference that makes.

Would be nice to see other examples broken down like this.
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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by kei17 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:55 am

AjayLikesGaming wrote:Quite interesting how much of a difference that makes.

Would be nice to see other examples broken down like this.
Image

In this case:

1) The eyes are too big and rounded.
2) The pupils are too small.
3) The darker shadow on his left cheek is too narrow that it makes the entire face look bloated.
4) The turned-up nose.
5) The sternocleidomastoid muscles are too wide.
6) The left ear is too big and pointy.
7) The shadow cast by his head is awkwardly shaped.

A corrected version:

Image
Image

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Flame Dragon » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:07 am

That Gohan picture really is lifeless compared to the original.
In the original Gohan looked shocked and desperate, the tears were drawn to look real (instead of being drawn like cartoon style tears, all white and no depth...) meanwhile in the new it looks like Gohan is a little pissy because someone ate his cookie.Image

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Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:35 am

Both old & new animation have their beautiful moments, and their shitty moments.
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