New Animation VS Old Animation

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Scott
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:35 am

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Scott » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:32 am

Noah wrote:Did you guys enjoyed the animation in DBS pilot?
I'm waiting until i get to see the subbed version but i wasn't all that impressed with the opening that's for sure.

I'm really finding the animation in the new stuff hard to adjust to. There is just too much wrong with everything.

Hair, face shape, body shape, characters not blending into the backgrounds, characters too shiny. Everything looks cheap and lazy, it's actually spoiling my enjoyment of the recent films, OVA's and it will probably do the same with the new series too :(
Last edited by Scott on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Metalwario64
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6109
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:02 am
Location: Namek

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Metalwario64 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:36 am

Noah wrote:Did you guys enjoyed the animation in DBS pilot?
It was decent overall. I'm glad the characters aren't so shiny. There were also some decent cuts when Goku turned Super Saiyan, but the CGI shortcuts are atrocious. I thought the CGI sun in the intro looked bad, and that horrible cut and paste, unmoving texture on that snake Goten and Trunks fought was atrocious. There was also some bad CGI when Beerus was messing with his food.

I don't mind using digital means for animation, but I wish the animators would just draw everything.

Also, a more nitpicky complaint for me is the final shot of the ending. Goku just looks surprised, then turns towards the screen and smiles. If they were trying to convey him seeing the camera and then smiling, he should have been looking towards the screen when he looked surprised.
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai
"90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash

User avatar
Flame Dragon
Regular
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 9:52 am
Location: Italy

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Flame Dragon » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:26 am

Nothing special animation wise. However, i really enjoyed the drawings.
Characters were less shiny and more detailed. Backgrounds were gorgeous. Even the CGI was not an eyesore this time.
Everything felt very solid.

The animation as a whole feels like a mix of BOG/F and the 2008 special. Which sounds awesome to me.

I loved it. If Super keeps up like this, i will probably reconsider my want of a Remake of DB/Z. :lol:

They even started drawing Vegeta amazingly again!
No more of this "short hair, shiny small head" crap from BOG.

Image

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13293
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:22 pm

The only good bits from Super Episode #1 were Urata Yukihiro and Nakatsuru Katsuyoshi's parts. I'm pretty sure Urata at least did the scene where Beers destroys that planet given how much the explosion looks like the this scene from Disk Wars: Avengers Episode #16. I'm also pretty sure Nakatsuru did the part where Majin Buu and Mister Satan talk. Otherwise the episode was the usual Kitano Yukihiro stuff.
She/Her | Bisexual | Fujoshi | Twitter: JulieYBM

User avatar
sbk
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:37 pm

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by sbk » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:24 pm

Old animation easily.

New animation has that hideous shiny look and the characters often look off model.

User avatar
SMKirbyZX
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:24 pm

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by SMKirbyZX » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:55 pm

Oh boy, the new animation.

While the old animation has it's fair share of problems, it's definitely better than the new animation. However, there are glimpses where the new animation can be good. Here are some from DBS:

Of course there's Resurrection F, in which a LOT of animation looks great.
So the new animation isn't entirely bad, but it needs to be in the right hands, especially for the movies and DBS. We need someone who can fix a lot of minor details and knows how to animate.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13293
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:57 pm

The newer stuff is no less prone to looking like crap than the older stuff. 'New' and 'old' don't apply at all to that discussion.
She/Her | Bisexual | Fujoshi | Twitter: JulieYBM

User avatar
SMKirbyZX
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:24 pm

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by SMKirbyZX » Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:01 pm

JulieYBM wrote:The newer stuff is no less prone to looking like crap than the older stuff. 'New' and 'old' don't apply at all to that discussion.
I guess I should just refer to them as different animation styles then.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13293
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:28 pm

SMKirbyZX wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:The newer stuff is no less prone to looking like crap than the older stuff. 'New' and 'old' don't apply at all to that discussion.
I guess I should just refer to them as different animation styles then.
They're not different animation styles, either. They're different key animation drawings based on different character designs~
She/Her | Bisexual | Fujoshi | Twitter: JulieYBM

User avatar
SMKirbyZX
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:24 pm

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by SMKirbyZX » Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:51 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
SMKirbyZX wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:The newer stuff is no less prone to looking like crap than the older stuff. 'New' and 'old' don't apply at all to that discussion.
I guess I should just refer to them as different animation styles then.
They're not different animation styles, either. They're different key animation drawings based on different character designs~
Okay, thank you for the info. I'm definitely not an animation expert. :oops:

User avatar
VintageSaiyan
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:19 pm

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by VintageSaiyan » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:45 pm

I can't imagine anyone picking the new animation. It's reminiscent of the DBZ video game animated intros. Those were fun back then because it was the first time we were getting anything dragonball animated in a while, but for fucks sake we're talking about a theatrical release now. The animation is a hot mess and anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves.

-The characters look atrocious. The colors have a saturated saturday morning cartoon look that is just disgusting. Remember the psuedo yellow-white hair on super saiyans that looked cool as hell? Now it looks like they used fill paint with a very saturated orange color. Auras look lazy, uninspired, and nowhere near as powerful as they used to do. Hell, the blue "electricity" even looks lame when compared to the original. Power ups, transformations, special attacks, etc - it all had meaning when it was done back then. There was a certain atmosphere that the animation brought.

-Don't even get me started on the devoid of any personality models..

-The fights are lazy and uninspired. Punches, kicks, ki blasts all look pretty pathetic and no amount of half assed 3d-animation is going to save it. Melee combat used to actually matter, you used to be able to feel the impact of the punches. Battle damage looked painful and was way more detailed then a few squiggly lines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjn58PuUyls

I understand that old DBZ wasn't all jellybeans and orgasms in terms of animation, but to be honest I'd much prefer any of the older movies to this. Toei has taken the teeth out the series, and part of me thinks that this more subdued, cartoonish animation style is partly because they're catering (castrating) the franchise to more of a less serious, child-friendly market. I was really excited for BoG, but was crushed when I realized this is all a cash-grab at this point. The franchise has a history of being milked and the only difference this time is that these new atrocities are being created just for that purpose. Just look at these lazy transformations which haven't been anything but ugly palette swaps. There's no soul in any of it.

User avatar
Attitudefan
I Live Here
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:51 pm
Location: Canada

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Attitudefan » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:36 am

I do think the models look the way they do, like plastic toys, so actual plastic toys will look closer to the new models and will sell better because of it.
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

User avatar
SuperSayanJim
Newbie
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 10:43 am

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by SuperSayanJim » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:07 am

IMO, the new animation is much better.

User avatar
shinmaru
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 839
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:41 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by shinmaru » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:20 pm

SMKirbyZX wrote:Oh boy, the new animation.

While the old animation has it's fair share of problems, it's definitely better than the new animation. However, there are glimpses where the new animation can be good.
Image
This one has Vegeta's hair looking MUCH better than BoG
.

It's much better, but if I have to criticise I would say they still can do better work with the lineart.

User avatar
Doctor.
Banned
Posts: 10558
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Doctor. » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:18 pm

They can, but it's much better than it was in the movies. The lines aren't all the same width, they all vary in thickness in most scenes, giving the drawing a lot more depth. This kind of varied line thickness was all over episode 1, unlike the movies, where it was present in just a few scenes.

User avatar
MrWalnut4
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:09 am
Location: Frieza Planet 419

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by MrWalnut4 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:59 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:I... really hate to keep doing this, but because of that screenshot I posted in my previous post... I've looked at other shots (and some by Yamamuro) of Vegeta with similar expressions, and then my "correction" started looking off to me, and I realized that in my "corrections" that the facial details were a bit too big for the face, so I reworked my image yet again to try and match the facial proportions:
This time I basically shrunk his face details a little bit, I redid his mouth wrinkle, since it seemed to be the norm, I desaturated his hair a bit, and I redrew the highlights (for the hell of it, since Yamamuro seemed to like using them more than I realized back in Z), with hopefully better definition (especially around his brows), and used a darker color.

Hopefully this is the last time I tamper with this image. :lol: I just find it an interesting experiment, because I enjoy trying to decipher what makes a style. I'd like to think I've gotten Yamamuro's features down now.
Your model is my favorite so far, so I decided to make a couple alterations. One thing about the new animation that really urks me is the skin tones. Forgive my horrible photoshop skills, but this is what the colors should look like IMO.

Image

I took the skin tones from a cel scan from the Buu arc and turned down the saturation on them a little bit and removed the highlights. Also the shadows on whites were very rarely pure gray usually trending toward lilac. Then tweaked the armor and hair to be just a little off black towards brown. Here's it compared to the original.

Image

User avatar
Attitudefan
I Live Here
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:51 pm
Location: Canada

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Attitudefan » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:58 am

problem in that Super shot, is that Vegeta is still sporting that huge chin because of Yamamuro's designs. Just look at it. It's a perfect example of how, instead of changing the lines to show more of the jaw line, he remains to have the head drawn as if it is head on instead of a lower angle, yet the face is drawn to the low angle shot. He's been doing that since the Cell arc.

Maeda's designs did not suffer from that problem. They actually drew the bottom of the jaw and chin.
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

User avatar
Metalwario64
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6109
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:02 am
Location: Namek

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Metalwario64 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:38 am

Attitudefan wrote:problem in that Super shot, is that Vegeta is still sporting that huge chin because of Yamamuro's designs. Just look at it. It's a perfect example of how, instead of changing the lines to show more of the jaw line, he remains to have the head drawn as if it is head on instead of a lower angle, yet the face is drawn to the low angle shot. He's been doing that since the Cell arc.

Maeda's designs did not suffer from that problem. They actually drew the bottom of the jaw and chin.
My biggest issue is that his Adam's Apple looks sunken in, rather than protruding.
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai
"90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash

User avatar
shinmaru
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 839
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:41 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by shinmaru » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:48 am

Metalwario64 wrote:
Attitudefan wrote:problem in that Super shot, is that Vegeta is still sporting that huge chin because of Yamamuro's designs. Just look at it. It's a perfect example of how, instead of changing the lines to show more of the jaw line, he remains to have the head drawn as if it is head on instead of a lower angle, yet the face is drawn to the low angle shot. He's been doing that since the Cell arc.

Maeda's designs did not suffer from that problem. They actually drew the bottom of the jaw and chin.
My biggest issue is that his Adam's Apple looks sunken in, rather than protruding.
Your right, Adam's apple looks weird

User avatar
Dbzejo
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:21 am

Re: New Animation VS Old Animation

Post by Dbzejo » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:59 pm

I like the new animation, because I'm not blinded by this thing called nostalgia...

Locked