New Animation VS Old Animation

[LordCrumb]

I actually like a lot of scenes that have been re-animated for flashbacks or montage segments. It gives it a fresh appearance and it usually adds in a little more detail.

[JulieYBM]

Issues with Yamamuro Tadayoshi's practices aside, I really enjoyed the cut scenes for Ultimate Blast, too. I do think Ueda Yoshihiro's storyboards were a bit boring, probably due to Gotou Yasunori's directing (that and Ueda kind of just sucks these days, too). The music dragged things down, too. Still, I really liked Nozawa's work in Gohan's bidding farewell to Gokuu before going off to fight Majin Buu. Nozawa's dual performances are always great.

[xmysticgohanx]

I actually like a lot of scenes that have been re-animated for flashbacks or montage segments. It gives it a fresh appearance and it usually adds in a little more detail.

Me too. They only look bad in freeze frames however I do feel that BoG's Bulma was too bright.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I actually like a lot of scenes that have been re-animated for flashbacks or montage segments. It gives it a fresh appearance and it usually adds in a little more detail.

I can only see this when they did that for Vegeta's respect in the Buu saga reanimating the Saiyan and Freeza saga scenes by actually updating them. The new artwork is just a sloppier new style entirely they're using.

[dbboxkaifan]

I actually like a lot of scenes that have been re-animated for flashbacks or montage segments. It gives it a fresh appearance and it usually adds in a little more detail.

The new redrawn scenes in Dragon Ball Kai lacked talent of capturing what the original scenes looked like and disappointingly it constantly reminded me as if that was drawn on Paint due to how simplistic its animation was.

I'd still rather take these bland uninspired redrawn scenes over Gohan's weird faces.

[LordCrumb]

I actually like a lot of scenes that have been re-animated for flashbacks or montage segments. It gives it a fresh appearance and it usually adds in a little more detail.

The new redrawn scenes in Dragon Ball Kai lacked talent of capturing what the original scenes looked like and disappointingly it constantly reminded me as if that was drawn on Paint due to how simplistic its animation was.

I'd still rather take these bland uninspired redrawn scenes over Gohan's weird faces.

Oh yeah the ones in Kai are pretty bad, but I meant the flashbacks and whatnot during Z.

[Kibitoshin]

yes, new style looks like it was drew on MS Paint

[TheGmGoken]

I actually like a lot of scenes that have been re-animated for flashbacks or montage segments. It gives it a fresh appearance and it usually adds in a little more detail.

The new redrawn scenes in Dragon Ball Kai lacked talent of capturing what the original scenes looked like and disappointingly it constantly reminded me as if that was drawn on Paint due to how simplistic its animation was.

I'd still rather take these bland uninspired redrawn scenes over Gohan's weird faces.

Oh yeah the ones in Kai are pretty bad, but I meant the flashbacks and whatnot during Z.

BoG new intro with Kaioken Goku to Cell looked worst.

[FortuneSSJ]

BoG new intro with Kaioken Goku to Cell looked worst.

This moments really makes me miss the old style. Most Z parts of that intro I didnt like it.

[JulieYBM]

BoG new intro with Kaioken Goku to Cell looked worst.

This moments really makes me miss the old style. Most Z parts of that intro I didnt like it.

The character models used could have been the old Maeda Minoru models and it still would've look terrible. A different model isn't going to help a bad key animator with next to no allotted drawings make something great.

[xmysticgohanx]

BoG new intro with Kaioken Goku to Cell looked worst.

Am I really the only one that thinks it looks better?

[TheGmGoken]

BoG new intro with Kaioken Goku to Cell looked worst.

Am I really the only one that thinks it looks better?

It looks horrible

[Attitudefan]

Goku's torso looked really stiff and disproportionate during the scene where he powers up the Kaioken against Vegeta. The genki-dama looked very cheap too. Also, they censored the hole in Goku's chest when he head butts Piccolo.

[Noah]

Great thread

[Metalwario64]

I know this thread was bumped, but it is a good thread, and the discussion has been made relevant again recently. I'd like to contribute by adding some posts on the subject I made recently:

Here's my attempt at correcting that Vegeta shot (my correction is on the left):



I used some Z screenshots as a reference point.

What I did was lowered his eyes and nose a bit, and centered them better. I also repositioned his mouth, since it wasn't quite aligned, and I redid the wrinkle to be under his mouth, since more upset reactions in Z tended to place that wrinkle there to show more of a grimace. I redid the cheekbone shading, and I completely redrew his nose, since it was too trangular, short and simplified, and I also pulled in and sharpened his jawline. I extended the wrinkles under his eyes and added shading to the edge, since that was they tended to look in the Buu arc, and I also extended his upper brow wrinkle slightly. I extended his hair since it was way too short, and also added a few strands. I also eliminated that plastic shine, since it just looks bad, as well as the hair shading, since it looked to much like plastic. I also drew in his ear lobe and I also extended some lines in his ear, since it looked incomplete and mushy originally.

I'd like to think I covered everything.

I gave up on this

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

The art isn't the problem for me I think the problem are the shading and the bright clean colors.

The Resurrection F shot looks very flat. The way the brow ridge isn't connected to his eyebrows makes it look as if it's just drawn on his face, and it also lacks proper shading to convey its shape and depth. Also, his nose looks like it was carved out of wood. The shading is also not very well done.

Also, I haven't seen the movie, but it also looks like he's slightly looking to the side, and I don't know if that's intentional or not.

If you want something that'll really bug you, here's a little thing Kei17 pointed out on Twitter the other week:

https://twitter.com/M1120A/status/610409355616219136
https://twitter.com/M1120A/status/610431259261534209

They don't highlight the facial structure properly like they used to. It used to angle in at the cheek, defining the face nicely, but now it's just a regular curve that leaves everyone looking a little flat. It's sad really, I noticed Uchiyama used to mess this up back in the day, too. Not entirely sure how Yamamuro unlearnt something like this.

I saw that too when I first found out about kei17s Twitter due to the recent Podcast discussing Super. The modern way makes their faces look very bubbly, and the overall roundness doesn't help. Even when Toriyama's (or Dragon Ball as a whole in this case) style was rounder, it still had some edges and definition to it. Now everything is just round, bubbly and soft. It certainly doesn't fit an action series like Dragon Ball.

I thought they would work better here, and the Super thread moves too fast, so they got buried there.

[bleed0range]

Does anyone here know how to paint and create a single animation cel? I know I've seen fans do it in the past. What I haven't seen is anyone try to re-create a frame of animation from the newer movies and paint it in the old-school way onto a piece of clear acetate. If someone did that and painted a background (or bought a generic sky one or something online) and took a picture of it, we'd get a good idea of what Beerus would look like (or any new animation) if it had been done in the past.

I've always been interested in the idea, because I feel like a large reason the old animation looks better is because it looks more "alive." And that lively look comes in part from it being a real piece of art, real paint... imperfections. I think it would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of a digital frame taken from BOG or ROF and a fan cel counterpart.

[JulieYBM]

Does anyone here know how to paint and create a single animation cel? I know I've seen fans do it in the past. What I haven't seen is anyone try to re-create a frame of animation from the newer movies and paint it in the old-school way onto a piece of clear acetate. If someone did that and painted a background (or bought a generic sky one or something online) and took a picture of it, we'd get a good idea of what Beerus would look like (or any new animation) if it had been done in the past.

I've always been interested in the idea, because I feel like a large reason the old animation looks better is because it looks more "alive." And that lively look comes in part from it being a real piece of art, real paint... imperfections. I think it would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of a digital frame taken from BOG or ROF and a fan cel counterpart.

The problem with that is you're assuming all digital coloring is the same. You're also assuming that the problem also does not lie with the key animation drawings themselves, the corrections from the animation supervisor and the character models the key animation drawing is based on.

This "it's the lack of cels!" argument folks like to throw around simply has nothing to do with the problems modern Dragon Ball animation tends to suffer from.

[bleed0range]

Does anyone here know how to paint and create a single animation cel? I know I've seen fans do it in the past. What I haven't seen is anyone try to re-create a frame of animation from the newer movies and paint it in the old-school way onto a piece of clear acetate. If someone did that and painted a background (or bought a generic sky one or something online) and took a picture of it, we'd get a good idea of what Beerus would look like (or any new animation) if it had been done in the past.

I've always been interested in the idea, because I feel like a large reason the old animation looks better is because it looks more "alive." And that lively look comes in part from it being a real piece of art, real paint... imperfections. I think it would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of a digital frame taken from BOG or ROF and a fan cel counterpart.

The problem with that is you're assuming all digital coloring is the same. You're also assuming that the problem also does not lie with the key animation drawings themselves, the corrections from the animation supervisor and the character models the key animation drawing is based on.

This "it's the lack of cels!" argument folks like to throw around simply has nothing to do with the problems modern Dragon Ball animation tends to suffer from.

Actually, I'm not assuming any of that. I know it has a lot to do with that, but the simple fact is even the poorer drawings of DBZ look better and have more life to them then the drawings of newer animation (a lot of it).

What I'm saying is there's a lot more life given to cel animation then digital. Older DB wasn't perfect, but it definitely retained a better look "on the cheap" then the newer animation... and I think a lot of that can be attributed to the grainy imperfections of a photograph of a painted image.

I thought it would be interesting to see how a drawing form newer animation would look if it had been photographed as an actual painted cel. Would it look more like the original series? Would it somehow gain some charm that was missing before?

[Alex9196]

thats a hard one. i like the animation for dbz but also the new style for battle of gods,episode of bardock,etc.
but if i would have to choose i would take the new animation i guess.

[Ajay]

What I haven't seen is anyone try to re-create a frame of animation from the newer movies and paint it in the old-school way onto a piece of clear acetate.

It doesn't really look all that different:

Spoiler:

JulieYBM is correct. Moving away from cel animation isn't what led to (what many consider to be) a disappointing aesthetic, these days. It's as he said; a mixture of Yamamuro's designs, poor animators, corrections from the supervisor, among many other varying factors. It's why the recent efforts have generally looked best when the most talented animators have been allowed to stray away from the constraints, and work freely to their own tastes.

I thought they would work better here, and the Super thread moves too fast, so they got buried there.

You're right, this is probably a better place for it. I wanted to comment on your alterations, but ended up too distracted by the irritating interjections from those users in the other thread.

I really like what you've done. The hair is something I hadn't considered, but it seems so obvious now. I think the nose is headed in the right direction, but it looks a little too triangular, lacking the sharp angle at the point that was usually seen back then. Extending the frown lines under and above the eye was a nice touch, definitely helps add depth to the face, alongside the altered shadow on the cheek. I do prefer the image with the highlights, however. I think removing them leaves the image looking a little flat, and many of the better scenes from Z featured three-tone shading. Either way, you did a great job -- far better than anything we'd done prior to your posting!

I think this is probably what looks the most right to me - http://i.imgur.com/of0YMjZ.png