New Animation VS Old Animation

[Doctor.]

I absolutely despise the white highlights every character has in anime now.

I don't understand... why? Have the Twilight universe vampires infected Japan?

Why does everyone need to look like this???



It makes characters look like lifeless, plastic toys instead of real humanoids made of flesh and bone.
Why everyone's skin shines like this???

It makes everybody look like they poured oil on their skin permanently.

Part of the reason why i liked the Yo! Son Goku special animation so much was because this shit didn't happen.

It's just Toei. Since you're using Toriko as a example, compare it to the OVA Ufotable made a few years before Toei got the rights to Toriko:

Spoiler:

[Makai]

I really like the new style of animation, and while I think the old style was much better in some ways, I believe it's mainly just the way it's drawn, and animated. The older art kinda felt more real, but the current style just sometimes seems poorly drawn and not well animated. Like I've seen some of you guys editing shots of the current style, I think they could do a better job. I thought Resurrection F looked wonderful though, and while it had it's moments, I hope they can continue making it look that good.

I personally wasn't a fan of the style the 08 special used, the characters just seemed a little off to me, especially the hair. But I thought the crossover with One Piece/Toriko looked pretty good, hopefully we can get more animation of that quality.

[Metalwario64]

The same with Metalwario64's "correction" of Vegeta. It's like he destroyed a perfect picture and turned it into the early Z atrocity that I can't stand looking at nowadays**.

While you're free to think that, my "correction" is clearly in the style of the late Buu arc...



It's definitely not early Z:


My correction was simply an attempt to make Yamamoto's current work more resemble his work from the Cell and Buu eras, which I do like.

(Also, I know those shots aren't Yamamuro. I simply chose them for the similar angle and expressions, even though they don't quite match.)

[EDIT]I've looked through Kanzenshuu's episode list, and episode 28 Maeda listed as "animator" (What does that mean? Supervisor?), and Naoki Miyahara for the first shot from 180. Either way, my point was that I knew those weren't Yamamuro, and were only shown as an example of eras.

[JulieYBM]

Maeda didn't do any key animation for Dragon Ball Z and Kan'no didn't act as an animation supervisor until Dragon Ball GT.

[Metalwario64]

I... really hate to keep doing this, but because of that screenshot I posted in my previous post... I've looked at other shots (and some by Yamamuro) of Vegeta with similar expressions, and then my "correction" started looking off to me, and I realized that in my "corrections" that the facial details were a bit too big for the face, so I reworked my image yet again to try and match the facial proportions:



This time I basically shrunk his face details a little bit, I redid his mouth wrinkle, since it seemed to be the norm, I desaturated his hair a bit, and I redrew the highlights (for the hell of it, since Yamamuro seemed to like using them more than I realized back in Z), with hopefully better definition (especially around his brows), and used a darker color.

Hopefully this is the last time I tamper with this image. I just find it an interesting experiment, because I enjoy trying to decipher what makes a style. I'd like to think I've gotten Yamamuro's features down now.

At the very least, I can tell that in the original shot, Vegeta's mouth is way too low in relation to his nose. Also, I know some animators had face proportions closer to my previous correction, but I'm trying to correct Yamamuro's work to resemble his old work more closely. But hell, I've probably taken this correction too far in that direction, but I'm experimenting.

Here are the shots that inspired these changes:

This shot is Yamamuro isn't it? At least, it's an episode he worked on.


This is from a Studio Live episode, and it's clearly not "Triangle Man" Ebisawa, so is this a Kan'no drawing?


As posted above. Kanzenshuu lists this episode as having been "animated" by Naoki Miyahara. I am unsure if he did the key animation or just supervised.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball Z Episode #280 is supervised by Miyahara Naoki. Shida Naotoshi, Saeki Tetsuya, Ide Takeo, Miyahara Naoki, Kanno Toshiyuki, and Inagami Akira were key animators. Kan'no was on loan from Studio Live for whatever reason, probably because his drawings fit in so well with the in-house animators at Toei Animation.

According to Kei, Miyahara Naoki was chief animation supervisor for early Studio Cockpit episodes and Shimanuki Masahiro did the same for early Studio Carpenter episodes. Both went without official credit, though.

[Big Momma]

I made a gif of those two Vegeta images for an easier comparison.






Vegeta looks so much more like...Vegeta in the edited one. The changes to the shadows really add more volume to him, as well.

[JulieYBM]

Kami to Kami had a huge number of key animators, so it really isn't a surprise that with only six animation supervisors there were a lot of bad looking cuts, given the rushed schedule. Even though Naruto movies have a huge number of key animators they have many more animation supervisors to help pick up the slack.

[InfernalVegito]

I made a gif of those two Vegeta images for an easier comparison.Vegeta looks so much more like...Vegeta in the edited one. The changes to the shadows really add more volume to him, as well.

Indeed. This isn't even funny. The hair is the most apparent thing for me which looks absolutely unlike Vegeta's hair the way it's so pushed together and made thinner. The spikes aren't long and wide enough which reminds me of Tarble's hairstyle.

[fadeddreams5]

Man... this thread is making me realize that a lot of what I don't like about modern DBZ can be attributed to the art.

[DarkPrince_92]

Man... this thread is making me realize that a lot of what I don't like about modern DBZ can be attributed to the art.

Seriously though. The new quality of movement is nice, but the drawings themselves lack any real depth and attention that used to be there. It's the shading that irks me the most. It's really flat. With highlights... why?



^Fuck... this face. Shading is all over the place. The head seems inconsistent throughout the whole movie. Also don't get how his hair keeps shrinking.

Whereas the "old stuff" the shading complimented the planes of the face and added some depth. I liked the colors better too lol.





^He's a little too guido though.

[Attitudefan]

The highlights are Yamamuro and only him. That's his design and the staff follow it.

He was doing it in Z but at a lesser rate, and with a darker shade. However, Yamamuro is my least favorite character designer for the series, and it looks the furthest from Toriyama's manga work. Yamamuro has a style that looks flat because of how he designs the faces, and uses very little line weight compared to other character designers for DB.

[Doctor.]

I agree that currently Yamamuro looks the furthest from Toriyama, but back in Z? I think he was the one who nailed his style the best, not perfectly, but the one who got the closest.

[Big Momma]

Man... this thread is making me realize that a lot of what I don't like about modern DBZ can be attributed to the art.

Seriously though. The new quality of movement is nice, but the drawings themselves lack any real depth and attention that used to be there. It's the shading that irks me the most. It's really flat. With highlights... why?

Geez, look at the size of his fingers. Looks like he's wearing Mickey Mouse gloves.

[DarkPrince_92]

I agree that currently Yamamuro looks the furthest from Toriyama, but back in Z? I think he was the one who nailed his style the best, not perfectly, but the one who got the closest.

He definitely had it down pack by the Cell/Buu Arc. I think his was the closest even. Now it's... I don't even know. Lacks his old luster.

[JulieYBM]

Best to keep in mind that Yamamuro doesn't even do much key animation himself anymore. What we're looking at it mostly bad key animators drawing based on his character designs.

[DarkPrince_92]

Best to keep in mind that Yamamuro doesn't even do much key animation himself anymore. What we're looking at it mostly bad key animators drawing based on his character designs.

I had a feeling it was this. Because it looks like him, but not really. BOG didn't seem consistent. Goku's face... I don't remember any shots during the movie where I really liked his face.

[kei17]

Best to keep in mind that Yamamuro doesn't even do much key animation himself anymore. What we're looking at it mostly bad key animators drawing based on his character designs.

However, it's also true that he is known as a quick worker and modifies the majority of key frames himself.

[Retan]

Best to keep in mind that Yamamuro doesn't even do much key animation himself anymore. What we're looking at it mostly bad key animators drawing based on his character designs.

However, it's also true that he is known as a quick worker and modifies the majority of key frames himself.

So I'm guessing because he's a quick worker, he get's more work with the franchise, or no?

[Metalwario64]

Spoiler:

^Fuck... this face. Shading is all over the place. The head seems inconsistent throughout the whole movie. Also don't get how his hair keeps shrinking.

He also lacks any expression. His mouth is very flat and square, as well as his nose and eyes. It's also missing the darkest level of shading.

Here is my correction:

Versus the original:


Here's a GIF for comparison: