Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this debate.

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rereboy
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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by rereboy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:49 am

Flame Dragon wrote:
A character, much like a real person, isn't (or shouldn't be) a robot programmed to do the same thing everytime.
There is a difference to different reactions and being out of character.

Even i, as a real human being, don't act to a situation now in the same way as i did 10 years ago.

Also, from an in-universe standpoint, Gohan rageboosts never accomplished anything.
Sometimes they worsened the situation.

1) Failed to kill Raditz, only made him angry.
2) Little scratch on Nappa's hand, woooho.
3) Pretty much zero damage on 2ndform Freeza.
4) Made 3rd form Freeza angry and made him go to Final Form.

It would make sense for Gohan to try controlling this power without losing control, since it's really powerful but accomplished jackshit.
And, like I've already said in this topic, I'm not saying that Gohan couldn't have developed in that way. He could, but the development comes out of nowhere with nothing leading up to it. This is not real life, its a story, it should have a structure to it, consistency, coherency and organic development of the characters. Gohan goes from doing something to doing almost the opposite in a very similar situation. Some development to it in the between was required to make it not appear inconsistent.

And, once again, his family and friends were about to die. It makes no sense to stand there without actually acting to save them just because he might fail given that he never before cared about the possibility of failing when it came down to save his friends and family from certain death (like agaisnt third from Freeza). Like I said, it took the death of someone to make him snap out of it. If #16 wasn't there, some of his friends and family would have died before he snapped out of it.

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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by baneofdemon22 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:58 am

Flame Dragon wrote:
rereboy wrote:
penguintruth wrote: If you think Gohan is out of character, it's like you just stopped reading after Goku beat Piccolo.
A character, much like a real person, isn't (or shouldn't be) a robot programmed to do the same thing everytime.
There is a difference to different reactions and being out of character.

Even i, as a real human being, don't act to a situation now in the same way as i did 10 years ago.
I agree completely! I've even changed from a month ago. Different sides of my personality come out in different situations and I keep changing my views. You can even see that here, how I go back and forth on things!

I agree with Penguintruth, saying it's well plotted and characterized. I just finished reading the manga for the first time a few days ago, and I agree that it's the best arc in the series. It's the best paced and added the most dimension to the characters.

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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by thatdbzguy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:35 pm

penguintruth wrote: Seems to me that it proves that some people have staggeringly weak reading comprehension skills.

If you think Gohan is out of character, it's like you just stopped reading after Goku beat Piccolo.
The only people with weak reading comprehension skills are the ones who actually think that Gohan wasn't out of character.

This thread alone helps prove that he was in fact, out of character.
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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by Nanotchi » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:49 pm

thatdbzguy wrote:
penguintruth wrote: Seems to me that it proves that some people have staggeringly weak reading comprehension skills.

If you think Gohan is out of character, it's like you just stopped reading after Goku beat Piccolo.
The only people with weak reading comprehension skills are the ones who actually think that Gohan wasn't out of character.

This thread alone helps prove that he was in fact, out of character.
So you are resorting to "No you're stupid!"

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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by thatdbzguy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:53 pm

Nanotchi wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:
penguintruth wrote: Seems to me that it proves that some people have staggeringly weak reading comprehension skills.

If you think Gohan is out of character, it's like you just stopped reading after Goku beat Piccolo.
The only people with weak reading comprehension skills are the ones who actually think that Gohan wasn't out of character.

This thread alone helps prove that he was in fact, out of character.
So you are resorting to "No you're stupid!"
No, but I do worry about the amount of intelligence someone who honestly believes that Gohan wasn't OOC has.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by thatdbzguy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:22 pm

The main problem is how Gohan just stood there while the Cell Jrs. attacked his friends. He never just stood there before, and no good reason as to why he started to was ever given.

Yeah. Grade A characterization right there. :roll:
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Kamiccolo9
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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:30 pm

thatdbzguy wrote:The main problem is how Gohan just stood there while the Cell Jrs. attacked his friends. He never just stood there before, and no good reason as to why he started to was ever given.

Yeah. Grade A characterization right there. :roll:
You mean like how he never stood there while Piccolo and Krillin were counting on him to attack Nappa?
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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by thatdbzguy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:37 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:The main problem is how Gohan just stood there while the Cell Jrs. attacked his friends. He never just stood there before, and no good reason as to why he started to was ever given.

Yeah. Grade A characterization right there. :roll:
You mean like how he never stood there while Piccolo and Krillin were counting on him to attack Nappa?
Except none of his friends were getting beat down right then.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by Godo » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:47 pm

thatdbzguy wrote: The only people with weak reading comprehension skills are the ones who actually think that Gohan wasn't out of character.
There are a lot of things that point towards Gohan's change:
- Learning about his hidden power, and about how it is released.
- The mental tax with being in the ROSAT
- Gohan being the one to be relied on, rather than Goku
- Growing older
- Training with Goku alone, as an equal

Missing these facts would point to poor reading comprehension.

Also, the use of the term "out of character" here is false, as it points to general confusion about the storyline. Gohan's reaction was due to the development of his character and was pointed out during the Cell arc step by step.
He doesn't change back to his previous self in the Buu arc. He maintains the same personality in the Buu arc. This is because his personality changed.

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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:02 pm

thatdbzguy wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:The main problem is how Gohan just stood there while the Cell Jrs. attacked his friends. He never just stood there before, and no good reason as to why he started to was ever given.

Yeah. Grade A characterization right there. :roll:
You mean like how he never stood there while Piccolo and Krillin were counting on him to attack Nappa?
Except none of his friends were getting beat down right then.
You're right, 3 of them had just been killed. And it's not like he did anything when Nappa disarmed Tenshinhan, or was beating up on Krillin and Piccolo, either.
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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by thatdbzguy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:06 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote: You're right, 3 of them had just been killed. And it's not like he did anything when Nappa disarmed Tenshinhan, or was beating up on Krillin and Piccolo, either.
Except that he wasn't actually friends with any of them other than Piccolo at that time.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:16 pm

thatdbzguy wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote: You're right, 3 of them had just been killed. And it's not like he did anything when Nappa disarmed Tenshinhan, or was beating up on Krillin and Piccolo, either.
Except that he wasn't actually friends with any of them other than Piccolo at that time.
He wasn't exactly friend with Vegeta in the Cell Games, yet he threw himself in front of Cell's blast to save him. He also went berserk when Freeza (or Dodoria, I can't remember which one killed him in the manga) killed that Namekian kid and threatened Dende. And Gohan didn't even know him.
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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by thatdbzguy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:54 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote: You're right, 3 of them had just been killed. And it's not like he did anything when Nappa disarmed Tenshinhan, or was beating up on Krillin and Piccolo, either.
Except that he wasn't actually friends with any of them other than Piccolo at that time.
He wasn't exactly friend with Vegeta in the Cell Games, yet he threw himself in front of Cell's blast to save him. He also went berserk when Freeza (or Dodoria, I can't remember which one killed him in the manga) killed that Namekian kid and threatened Dende. And Gohan didn't even know him.
Firstly, Gohan was already OOC at the Cell Games, so using examples there doesn't help your argument. Secondly, Gohan got mad when the kids were getting attacked because they were kids like him. Simple as that.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:40 pm

thatdbzguy wrote: Firstly, Gohan was already OOC at the Cell Games, so using examples there doesn't help your argument. Secondly, Gohan got mad when the kids were getting attacked because they were kids like him. Simple as that.
Out of character according to you. And it doesn't change the fact that it still happened. Are you seriously saying that Gohan wouldn't risk himself to save people he doesn't know? Or even people he doesn't particularly like?
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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by thatdbzguy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:46 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote: Firstly, Gohan was already OOC at the Cell Games, so using examples there doesn't help your argument. Secondly, Gohan got mad when the kids were getting attacked because they were kids like him. Simple as that.
Out of character according to you. And it doesn't change the fact that it still happened. Are you seriously saying that Gohan wouldn't risk himself to save people he doesn't know? Or even people he doesn't particularly like?
Apparently not while watching his friends get beat up by the Cell Jrs.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by ABED » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:58 pm

thatdbzguy wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote: You're right, 3 of them had just been killed. And it's not like he did anything when Nappa disarmed Tenshinhan, or was beating up on Krillin and Piccolo, either.
Except that he wasn't actually friends with any of them other than Piccolo at that time.
No, but Gohan knew what they meant to his father, so by extension...

By that time he had met Kuririn.
- The mental tax with being in the ROSAT
There's nothing in the text that implies that had a noticeable effect on him emotionally.
he development of his character and was pointed out during the Cell arc step by step.
What development? He's barely in it until the end.
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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by Godo » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:27 pm

ABED wrote: There's nothing in the text that implies that had a noticeable effect on him emotionally.
In that case the question about him being out of character is null.

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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by penguintruth » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:44 pm

This thread... seriously.

Well, since the thread is basically this now, it's probably run its course.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by ABED » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:48 pm

penguintruth wrote:This thread... seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAT9nkGZa08
Then why constantly comment on it? Anyone who disagrees with your assessment is stupid? Grow up!
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this deb

Post by thatdbzguy » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:51 pm

Godo wrote:
ABED wrote: There's nothing in the text that implies that had a noticeable effect on him emotionally.
In that case the question about him being out of character is null.
Nice to see someone realizing that Gohan was OOC.
Khalid Shahin wrote:
Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.

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