Do you feel the King Cold segment was rushed?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
nicolas_3d
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:42 am

Do you feel the King Cold segment was rushed?

Post by nicolas_3d » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:06 am

King Cold is a character we know very little about. He's supposed to secretly rule the universe, that's a pretty big and important role by all standards. We barely see him for a few episodes and then he dies... I think there should have been more to that segment, more background story on him and his actions... Maybe it was some sort of a rushed last minute decision by Akira toriyama to create this character, in order to fill a hole in the story. It does seem like it seriously because there is no meat to his story.

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 16591
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:09 am

I liked it. A lot. The whole point is to be "you're NOTHING now". Showcasing him any more than Toriyama did gives him undue importance when the exact opposite is the whole point there.

I don't like it when story bits are brushed aside with no regard to their setup and the overall plot and it's clear that the author is just changing his mind about things, but when their PURPOSE in the plot is to be swept aside - as it was with King Cold - I think it works beautifully.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
Gutsxgoku
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by Gutsxgoku » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:33 am

I also think that any more back story would be irrelevant/redundant because it would most likely just be the exact same stuff we have seen Freeza doing but instead it's King Cold... That and everything Mike said^ :)

RocktheDragon
Regular
Posts: 586
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:03 pm
Location: North Orange County, California
Contact:

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by RocktheDragon » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:44 pm

Not at all. King Cold was around just enough as he needed to be. We had already exhausted everything we could with a galactic overlord in Freeza so Cold would have been overkill.

I wouldn't mind a special or movie tracing Cold's family background though. That would make for an interesting topic to cover sometime.
Kyle Broflovski wrote:It's all real. Think about it. Haven't Luke Skywalker and Santa Claus affected your lives more than most real people in this room? I mean, whether Jesus is real or not, he - he's had a bigger impact on the world than any of us have. And the same can be said for Bugs Bunny and - and Superman and Harry Potter. They've changed my life - changed the way I act on the earth. Doesn't that make them kind of real? They might be imaginary but, but they're more important than most of us here. And they're all gonna be around here long after we're dead. So, in a way, those things are more realer than any of us.

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8822
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:49 pm

I think the whole Cell arc was rushed, or at least felt incredibly rushed.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

rereboy
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10261
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by rereboy » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:51 pm

I would have him transform and actually be a little bit stronger than Freeza, just to lose without difficulty and be killed in a spectacular way.

That would hype the character as the true and intelligent head of the empire, working in the shadows through his son (making the whole segment feel more fresh than just "Freeza returns", as well as a oh-oh moment when he transforms), but it would still make the point that they are seriously outclassed (and it would do it even more effectively).

User avatar
TobyS
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1242
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by TobyS » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:27 pm

Also if you think about it, Freeza once said something like "you are the first one to put a scratch on me beside my parent/s" (japanese don't have plurals apparently?)

So if they didn't fans would worry about that... What Toriyama did was say "Freeza is dead, and his whole family are dead"
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by sintzu » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:43 pm

The whole point was to show that frieza and his kind were nothing at that point.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Gyt Kaliba
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8830
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:38 am
Location: Arkansas
Contact:

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:55 pm

I'm kind of in the middle on this. I would have liked to get a little more about the character, which is why I've somewhat enjoyed Multiverse's take on him...but at the same time, the point of him and Freeza's return at all was to just be brushed aside that easily. So I'm not really sure it would have worked without going from one extreme to the other.
My Writing Endeavors - Twitter
"There are two kinds of folks who sit around thinking about how to kill people. Psychopaths, and mystery writers. I'm the kind that pays better." - Richard Castle, 'Castle'

User avatar
penguintruth
Banned
Posts: 4861
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:49 pm

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by penguintruth » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:28 pm

Yeah, the whole point of Cyborg Freeza and King Cold were that, compared to the next threat, they were nothing at all. The guy who easily kills Freeza talks about how he was no match for the next villains.

Though King Cold was probably extra-redundant. It could have just been Freeza's soldiers alone that revived him and just him and his soldiers going to Earth. But whatevs.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


Dragon Ball (Z) Kai Reviews!

Can I get a Schemen?

User avatar
Herms
Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
Posts: 10550
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
Location: Jupiter
Contact:

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by Herms » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:28 pm

I feel like Cold only exists to demonstrate that Trunks isn't just some guy who happens to own a magic Freeza-killing super sword.

Also, to give Freeza someone to talk to who's a bit more interesting than some new henchman.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8822
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:47 pm

Herms wrote:I feel like Cold only exists to demonstrate that Trunks isn't just some guy who happens to own a magic Freeza-killing super sword.

Also, to give Freeza someone to talk to who's a bit more interesting than some new henchman.
I always thought it was because Freeza mentioned having a father before, and it would seem weird to throw that out and never elaborate on it. And maybe also to show that Freeza's kind weren't a single specimen species (in the manga, the anime already had that covered).
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

User avatar
Hellspawn28
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 14020
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:29 pm

I feel like he could have been a good villain. I rather him come to Earth alone instead having him rebuild Freeza into a cyborg. It can show how powerful his family is and show that Freeza is a ant compare to his father. In the original timeline, Goku and the others could have killed him in a combine attack.
PS4 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
MAL Profile: http://myanimelist.net/profile/Hellspawn28
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/GS27/

User avatar
Mr.Judge
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:39 am
Location: New Namek

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by Mr.Judge » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:31 pm

Yeah . seems so.
Considering Frieza inclusion in DBO and new movie BOG, also Akira Toriyama seems to have a soft spot for that particular character.

BUT Instead of a new movie riddled with more inconsistencies(going by BOG), I'd rather Akira Toriyama revisit the Goku and Frieza Fight in a movie format , Or introduces a more powerful Frieza from another Timeline as a filler movie.

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:12 pm

Herms wrote:I feel like Cold only exists to demonstrate that Trunks isn't just some guy who happens to own a magic Freeza-killing super sword.
Imagine the eternal strength debates about SS Trunks vs Mecha Freeza if Cold never existed...
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8822
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: Do you feel the king Cold segment was rushed?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:46 pm

Mr.Judge wrote:Yeah . seems so.
Considering Freeza inclusion in DBO and new movie BOG, also Akira Toriyama seems to have a soft spot for that particular character.
Eh? Seems more like the opposite. He constantly has everyone shit on Freeza and make him look pathetic (the whole idea of the 2008 JSAT special, Trunks slicing and dicing him effortlessly, the whole idea of Beers, his defeat being rubbed in again in BOG), and the anime staff is all too happy to join in (becoming a whiny bitch in Hell, getting one-shotted by Pikkon, getting punched so hard by Gohan that he EXPLODES, getting humiliated time after time in GT, etc.). The only villain who gets his dignity crushed after his defeat more than Freeza is Vegeta.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

User avatar
mAcChaos
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1869
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Do you feel the King Cold segment was rushed?

Post by mAcChaos » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:56 pm

Yeah, Buu is the only one who is still held up with respect.
[i]"I have yet to show you, young warrior, what I'm truly capable of."[/i] - Cell

User avatar
MasterVampire
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:25 am

Re: Do you feel the King Cold segment was rushed?

Post by MasterVampire » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:22 pm

I don't really think it was rushed.

Future Trunks just doesn't let fights drag out or toy with his enemies.
He just goes in for the quick kill which is why this saga ended so quick.

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8822
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: Do you feel the King Cold segment was rushed?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:01 pm

mAcChaos wrote:Yeah, Buu is the only one who is still held up with respect.
Sorta, counting the Toei stuff. Mr. Buu and Uub are basically Buu, and they usually get trashed to wank Goku in GT. But hey, at least Super Buu's reincarnation, Super Uub, gets SOME dignity (holding his own against Baby, playing a major part in beating him, one-shotting Rildo) and Buu as a whole isn't treated like a joke as Cell and Freeza are.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6010
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Do you feel the King Cold segment was rushed?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:40 am

I honestly agree and would have liked to see more about him.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

Post Reply