A look at Goku and Vegeta after Potara fusion.

[TheGmGoken]

Goku also offered the old kai to fondle Bulma's boobs. Very unlike Goku if we look at him up to that point.

They was before they fused though

[dbgtFO]

Goku also offered the old kai to fondle Bulma's boobs. Very unlike Goku if we look at him up to that point.

They was before they fused though

Yep, he suggested it all the way back, when Elder Kaioshin was refusing to reveal his secret ability to defeat Buu(which turned out to be drawing out hidden power).

[Akumaito Beam]

This really brought me back to being a kid again. I haven't liked anything this "in-universe" for about a decade. Very interesting theory. I love it. I hope you branch out and do more stuff like this. That was a fun read.

[Attitudefan]

Goku also offered the old kai to fondle Bulma's boobs. Very unlike Goku if we look at him up to that point.

They was before they fused though

RIGHT!!!

Hmm.... that's a little sticky wicket don't you think!

[nhienphan2808]

Thank you all for appreciation

We don't know whether this was Toriyama's intended intentions or not

I can almost guarantee you it wasn't.

Toriyama never thinks about his characters in any sort of meaningful way. To him, they're just there to fight and move the plot forward (usually by fighting). This goes especially for the Buu saga, since by this point Toriyama was sick of writing the series and it wouldn't make much sense for him to all of a sudden write his characters with more care if he couldn't even stand writing the manga anymore.

Plus, I doubt Toriyama even has the skill to intentionally pull something like that off. His specialty is gag-style writing, and he's not too good at writing anything that isn't in that style.

Just so you know, ThatDBZGuy, for some strange reason, hates almost everything about DBZ and is doing everything in his power to say how much it sucks, despite being a huge fan a year ago. I dunno what's up with that, but either way, I still think you have a really cool theory here !

I...agree with thatdbzguy and all of you guys who say the changes are not really intentional. It''s Toriyama's style to not intentionally plan anything.

I'd say, tho, that is what makes DB in general and this fusion stuff special to me. Toriyama is just like Goku that way in his creation of DB. He took everything lightheartedly, he doesn't think too deep and too much, he doesn't remember. He does not care about what the world (fandom, Toei, gamers, angsty fangirls) thinks about him. He just does what he thinks is good, and just FLOWS.

if it really is unintentional, it's an AWESOME unintentionalness that Goku suddenly took Vegeta's lines at his own. Because the old Goku's personality is wholly intentional, and the opposite character of Vegeta is intentional. Now let's say Toriyama doesn't plan the plot, but everything Goku does in response to the things that happen is corresponding to that crystalized characterization : Son Goku, a Child awaken to emptiness in the Buddhist faith and ultimate phylosophy , affected by no shame in himself, boxed and limited by no ego and no pride. He would never be affected by the past and the future, he just lives fully in the present moment. He never NEEDS to show off, to make himself look good, to defend and justify/rationalize himself, to try to be something he's not, because he KNOWS himself perfectly.

But after fusion, he does all those things that are completely against who he was. And it's not even on ocassions, it's a constant, from the moment they split to the last pages of the manga. I don't think it was a natural character development. I used to think that about Vegeta too, because he become if not a better person, a better fighter, at the series progressed. but Goku kinda "developed" in the negative way. Now that's strange.

I don't think it has anything to do with evil. It's personality traits IMO.

By the way, does this theory mean that Goku not knowing about Tarble and Beerus is a plothole? He had all of Vegeta's memories during the fusion.

No, it's not a plot hole. I don't think they had each other's memories as in what he did and saw in the past. They just somehow knew each other more as a person.
But yeah, It has little to do with evil and good (in the most common sense) It just had everything to do with the pride and ego of Vegeta and the carefree, no ego bullshit personality of Goku

So if Goku is tainted with Vegetas evil, does it mean that the devilmite beam would work on Goku since he is not pure hearted anymore?

Let's hope not lol. But yeah i'm afraid so. He's darker after they fused. See the old Goku as a evil level of O since he's empty, and it just rose to 1. 0 x everything is 0 but one x something is scary.

It is a little depressing to think about though, the fact that the Goku we know and love so much...has been tainted by some of Vegeta's evil

Please don't feel depressed, coz like i said, these changes are only presented when they are interacting. i think Goku is only "tainted" by Vegeta's negativity when Vegeta is with him. See in Battle of Gods when he's not seeing and not talking about Vegeta he's the old Goku again. When he's with Vegeta he's worse but in exchange Vegeta is enlightened, so i guess that doesn't kill anything; they are still an awesome duo like always

About Goku's perverted tasticand why he does that even before fusing, i'll tell you IMO it really is...not against this theory at all. But it was a whole different argument for another LONG analysis, so i rest my case

[Jackal puFF]

Nicely put images! I never knew Vegeta made those faces in the manga! I always had thoughts about these kind of things after they fused. Nice to know I'm not the only one who thought that.

[FrogTrigger]

It's really nice to see this theory with the evidence behind it. I have heard of similar theories, and I do agree that undoing the fusion may have not been as clear-cut as Gokû and Vegeta may have wanted it. It definitely left psychological effects.

Also, the "What was that?" collage is amazing. X3

AGREED

I always felt it was just Goku and Vegeta learning more about each other after fusing

[Marco Polo]

I never liked the fact that Ultimate Gohan was put aside in favor of the weaker Goku and Vegeta at the end of the series, but this theory actually makes me appreciate the change of focus a bit more.

[nhienphan2808]

It's really nice to see this theory with the evidence behind it. I have heard of similar theories, and I do agree that undoing the fusion may have not been as clear-cut as Gokû and Vegeta may have wanted it. It definitely left psychological effects.

Also, the "What was that?" collage is amazing. X3

Yeah, but it's not mine, though. Someone posted it on Tumblr and i just saved it

[psi_brg]

What I find interesting is that, when the kai's have probably never EVER seen anybody defuse from the potara, Saying this means that there has never been a true understanding of the after effects on both participants defusing.... I think this theory has a lot of merit!!

It is vastly different from being fused for 30 mins, which I think wont bring the 2 people close together in thought process but using the potara - this is meant to be forever, so I think the bonds of the people become fused permanently, thus good heart vs evil heart become neither good or evil but just a heart with that is reactive to different situations

hmmm

[soulnova]

Hahaha, yeah, I have always thought that when they defused it CHANGED their very soul. I did noticed the change on Vegeta's personality right away, although Goku's was much more subtle.


They fused. Their souls melded into one and it was supposed to be a PERMANENT state. It was obviously going to have some sort of secondary effect when they unexpectedly defused.


The most obvious thing, for me, was that Vegeta was actually revived with the rest of the Good people. At the very least his soul wasn't considered as evil as before, when just some days ago he almost got sent straight to Hell (even by his redeeming final sacrifice). I would say Goku's own goodness got rubbed off on Vegeta by the fusion... and Vegeta's own cockiness and messed up personality got rubbed back on Goku in turn (not "evilness" perse...). They even out a little.


As many have commented, I doubt this was Toriyama's intention but it does add up to what we see in both anime and manga. And IT IS a head canon for me.

[Codarik]

This is one of the best reads I've had on here in long time. It makes so much sense. Definitely going into my canon.

[rereboy]

I've always considered it all to be psychological influence after the fusing experience. You seem to be suggesting that they weren't put back together exactly as they were but I disagree. I think its just a case of of their mindset being a little changed due to their incredibly intense psychological experience. They literally shared their minds with each other and the thoughts and way of being of the other became, for a time, their own. That obviously would have an effect and influence afterwards and it reasonably justifies Vegeta being more confident like Goku had always been and Goku being more self-aware around Vegeta.

Or its just Toriyama not being very consistent.

[UpFromTheSkies]

As interesting as that is, though, I doubt Toriyama planned any of it at all.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Goku also offered the old kai to fondle Bulma's boobs. Very unlike Goku if we look at him up to that point.

No, that's not new behavior for Goku, watch the original Dragon Ball

[nhienphan2808]

I've always considered it all to be psychological influence after the fusing experience. You seem to be suggesting that they weren't put back together exactly as they were but I disagree. I think its just a case of of their mindset being a little changed due to their incredibly intense psychological experience. They literally shared their minds with each other and the thoughts and way of being of the other became, for a time, their own. That obviously would have an effect and influence afterwards and it reasonably justifies Vegeta being more confident like Goku had always been and Goku being more self-aware around Vegeta.

Or its just Toriyama not being very consistent.

That bit "random piece of Vegetto are not in the right order" about not being put back exactly as they were is meant as kind of a joke actually, don't take it seriously, it's just me being a troll Coz if that was the serious case the changes would be permanent and they would be two whole new different people. It's only psychological. I did say that these changes are only present when they are interacting. When talking with Old Kai and everybody else even after fusing and in Battle Of Gods, they both were their old selves before Potara again. No disagreement

Hahaha, yeah, I have always thought that when they defused it CHANGED their very soul. I did noticed the change on Vegeta's personality right away, although Goku's was much more subtle.

I always feel that his changes are as clear, if not more blatant than Vegeta's. I really dig his psyche and personality before Potara in a philosophical level. Vegeta changes for the better in the entire series and he had always valued his family as well as admired and trusted Goku, so I did brushed it off as normal development for a long while. But the Goku in front of Vegeta was...just a different person altogether

What I find interesting is that, when the kai's have probably never EVER seen anybody defuse from the potara, Saying this means that there has never been a true understanding of the after effects on both participants defusing.... I think this theory has a lot of merit!!

It is vastly different from being fused for 30 mins, which I think wont bring the 2 people close together in thought process but using the potara - this is meant to be forever, so I think the bonds of the people become fused permanently, thus good heart vs evil heart become neither good or evil but just a heart with that is reactive to different situations

THANK YOU! Yeah, it is a permanent fusion. People split up after the fusion dance all the time. But not with the Potara.

I never liked the fact that Ultimate Gohan was put aside in favor of the weaker Goku and Vegeta at the end of the series, but this theory actually makes me appreciate the change of focus a bit more.

It's great to hear that

One more thing : I'd say the English dub and some filler in the anime did kind of made these more subtle. In the English dub Goku is turned to a hero that knows how to be self aware and ashamed and actually cares about what the wold think about him, which the Japanese one is not, so the changes after fusing are out of the window. And in the anime filler there is a scene where he was being the sassy confident bastard he was always been when he was looking for Gohan with Vegeta. "He looks less handsome than me.", so the changes are more difficult to see as changes.

[nhienphan2808]

Bringing this back up because i can never shut the hell up

I do not believe this is normal character development because of the blatant changes, and REASONS. First, The Buu Saga happened in two days. For Vegeta, He needed a decade to come to love his family. For Goku, he does everything that went against who he was before Potara. More than that, it’s not even two days. Look at the scene RIGHT before they fused.



Vegeta the Drama Queen continues to berate Goku because his ego is too big. And good ol’ Goku continues to keep to himself his personal thoughts and just apologized straight. Then Vegeta needed Goku to yell in his face about reality and the present moment and knock him out of his ego. This is prolonged in the anime for 1 episode cause of Goku sparing that pride SO hard and patiently, being such a nice guy to the self-absorbed, egotistical, delusional inflexible jerk.

Seconds after that, they fused and then split up. IN SECONDS and they were like entirely different people. All the anger disappeared on Vegeta's part, he became the nice guy, and Goku didn’t ONCE try to be that nice guy anymore, being the drama queen himself.

One thing i find endearing is that both idiots are even aware of the fact that they constantly acted like each other of old ever since fusion. Pre-Potara Goku was cocky too but he got his shit done. Post-Potara Goku after being cocky screwed up big time. Nor was Vegeta aware of the nice Gokuness in him. While egeta understood why Goku was the best, and Goku understood Vegta's pride ,each don't seem to realize the other acted different from what they understand. Later Goku was all : “D: I didn’t act like this complete self-absorbed arrogant idiot because I respected you! Wait, who are you and what have you done to that asshole Vegeta?” when Vegeta tried to be a pal and help him, and Vegeta actually optimistically thought Goku acted all hardcore like this because he cared for him (like the old Goku CERTAINLY would have, ne?)

It’s also a little jarring to think that Vegeta was able to make peace with himself and the world around him and had the best noble speech ever so fast (in two days, no, in seconds) in the end just because he’s been enlightened by some Gokuness via Potara. And also become "good" enough to be revived, which amazed Goku (just one day before he was supposed to go to hell) Not that he was unable to reach that point, but i do think he’d have needed so much more time to become the person he was after Potara all by himself.

[Metalwario64]

"You fucked with me"?

Did Anime Labs do scanlations too?

[Son-Kun!!]

All of the scans he uses have excessive cursing that's not actually there, but this is still a great read!

[Lozjudai]

Am I the only one who thinks that when Goku is shouting he looks really weird...