Did DBZ Overuse The "Idiot Ball" Trope?

[thatdbzguy]

It's bad writing for Vegeta not to cut Gohan in half?

If there's no reason given as to why he couldn't, then yes, it's bad writing.

[jjgp1112]

Or maybe he was just so singlemindedly focused on getting rid of Gohan's tail that he didn't think of cutting him in half. Either way, Gohan would've been out of his ape form and rendered easy pickings anyway. What he didn't count on was Gohan falling on top of him while still an ape.

Just because he didn't think of every possible option in the spur of the moment doesn't mean it's bad writing. Believe it or not, the characters are PEOPLE, not robots. They're not going to make what us onlookers completely removed from the situation would consider the "right decision." If every character did everything as they "should," that'd be an awfully boring story. And no, we don't need every little thing spelled out like we're seven years old, either.

[mAcChaos]

3) Vegeta going to sleep never seemed like a dumb move to me. In his eyes the earthlings were never going to double cross him, and the guy had gone through a lot (fights, crazy situations).

He hadn't slept for days. It makes complete sense. When you have no sleep it can really take a toll and you need to be in top shape for tough combat.

[Metalwario64]

Or maybe he was just so singlemindedly focused on getting rid of Gohan's tail that he didn't think of cutting him in half. Either way, Gohan would've been out of his ape form and rendered easy pickings anyway. What he didn't count on was Gohan falling on top of him while still an ape.

Just because he didn't think of every possible option in the spur of the moment doesn't mean it's bad writing. Believe it or not, the characters are PEOPLE, not robots. They're not going to make what us onlookers completely removed from the situation would consider the "right decision." If every character did everything as they "should," that'd be an awfully boring story. And no, we don't need every little thing spelled out like we're seven years old, either.

Exactly.

Plus, you know, it's a fucking kids manga/anime. Dragon Ball is not going to have a main character, who is a child by the way, get cut in half.

[Godo]

It's bad writing for Vegeta not to cut Gohan in half?

If there's no reason given as to why he couldn't, then yes, it's bad writing.

No, it's not bad writing.
Keeping main characters away from death is good writing. Especially since Dragonball Z was more focused on Gohan as well at that point, and Piccolo was dead at that point (so no resurrection).
Cutting Gohan in half would kill him, and then we would complain about how Gohan was brought into the spotlight just to be killed moments later.
In every aspect, cutting Gohan in half would be the stupid idea. No matter what people think Vegeta "should have done".

[ParkerAL]

If there's no reason given as to why he couldn't, then yes, it's bad writing.

Reasons given that you had already conveniently ignored:

he didn't have time to think clearly, and wasn't exactly in a completely sound state of mind after all the battle damage he had taken.

At that time, Vegeta was weakened and probably didn't have the power to blast it, pulling it was probably the easiest way for him to take the tail off. Even in the manga he struggles to pull it off, because of his weakened state.

Vegeta was acting at the heat of the moment. Imagine if you was gonna get crushed by a giant, hairy gorilla falling over you and have just a few seconds to react.

Once again. You're looking from the wrong POV. For one Vegeta was too weak to even kill Yajoribe with a Super Wave. There's also the heat of the moment. Vegeta was going crazy because these Earthlings was giving him trouble. Nevermind the fact Vegeta usual is cocky meaning he most likely easily dominated most of his foes. It's called be realistic. Even in real life stuff like this happen.

And it's not bad writing for characters to make illogical decisions. People, and fictional characters as an extension, are FLAWED. They don't make perfect decisions 100% of the time. If they did, THAT would be an example of bad writing.

I suppose you must think Hamlet is poorly written because the main character makes the mistake of not immediately killing Claudius.

[thatdbzguy]

Or maybe he was just so singlemindedly focused on getting rid of Gohan's tail that he didn't think of cutting him in half.

I find that incredibly hard to believe. The option is just so obvious that there's no way Vegeta could've completely overlooked it, especially when he had the disc in his hand and was directly facing the ape.

[TheGmGoken]

Or maybe he was just so singlemindedly focused on getting rid of Gohan's tail that he didn't think of cutting him in half.

I find that incredibly hard to believe. The option is just so obvious that there's no way Vegeta could've completely overlooked it, especially when he had the disc in his hand and was directly facing the ape.

Do you ignore every thing that everyone saying? Honestly seems like you're doing selective hearing(While in this case reading).

If there's no reason given as to why he couldn't, then yes, it's bad writing.

Reasons given that you had already conveniently ignored:

he didn't have time to think clearly, and wasn't exactly in a completely sound state of mind after all the battle damage he had taken.

At that time, Vegeta was weakened and probably didn't have the power to blast it, pulling it was probably the easiest way for him to take the tail off. Even in the manga he struggles to pull it off, because of his weakened state.

Vegeta was acting at the heat of the moment. Imagine if you was gonna get crushed by a giant, hairy gorilla falling over you and have just a few seconds to react.

Once again. You're looking from the wrong POV. For one Vegeta was too weak to even kill Yajoribe with a Super Wave. There's also the heat of the moment. Vegeta was going crazy because these Earthlings was giving him trouble. Nevermind the fact Vegeta usual is cocky meaning he most likely easily dominated most of his foes. It's called be realistic. Even in real life stuff like this happen.

And it's not bad writing for characters to make illogical decisions. People, and fictional characters as an extension, are FLAWED. They don't make perfect decisions 100% of the time. If they did, THAT would be an example of bad writing.

I suppose you must think Hamlet is poorly written because the main character makes the mistake of not immediately killing Claudius.

[jjgp1112]

Or maybe he was just so singlemindedly focused on getting rid of Gohan's tail that he didn't think of cutting him in half.

I find that incredibly hard to believe. The option is just so obvious that there's no way Vegeta could've completely overlooked it, especially when he had the disc in his hand and was directly facing the ape.

1) As soon as Vegeta sports Gohan's tail, he immediately tries to rip it off. He is of course interrupted by Yajirobe, and by the time he gets back to Gohan, it's too late.
2) Gohan then proceeds to immediately target Vegeta, who thus far has taken the shitkicking of a lifetime and has narrowly escaped death several times.
3)
4) The situations combined with the above panel leaves me to believe that survival and escape were on Vegeta's mind first and foremost, not killing Gohan. He wanted to save his own ass first and let the rest of the pieces fall after Gohan's reduced to his regular form. We literally see that his first thought is "Oh shit, I'm gonna get crushed!"

I've noticed that you're just picking and choosing what you want to respond to and completely avoiding a significant amount of other points against your argument, which leads me to believe that you mostly made this thread for shits & giggles and to make another attempt at agitating a forum of Dragon Ball fans. One might call it trolling, in fact . You can try to obfuscate your attentions as much as you want but eventually everyone, including the mods, are going to get sick of it as long as you make no attempts to actually be productive.

[thatdbzguy]

I don't ignore other reasons, but I'd rather not have to focus on 5 different arguments at the same time. It's just too much of a hassle.

[ABED]

Does Vegeta look like he has enough energy to cut Gohan in half?

I should also add, in case anyone else hasn't, that many things that are obvious in retrospect aren't obvious in the heat of the moment.

especially when he had the disc in his hand and was directly facing the ape.

The disc wasn't big enough to cut a Great Ape in half.

[FrogTrigger]

I don't ignore other reasons, but I'd rather not have to focus on 5 different arguments at the same time. It's just too much of a hassle.

Or you could uh realize it's all one argument and instead of posting excuses have a bit more substance? Like ParkerAL and dude with the Boondocks avatar outlined stuff from the magna for you and even showed Vegeta's mindstate, which should be obvious if you read the manga. This just seems like you're being lazy or obtuse dude, and I hoe that's not the case.

I think claiming anything from TVTropes is a bit much anyways (problems with how many things they label tropes but that's here nor there) and it comes off like a bad game of Jena when one uses a term from that site to start a discussion.

There is character induced stupidity but those are character flaws that can be played, for example Vegeta in the Cell Saga or Goku during the Cell Games having a conversation with Piccolo.

But what do I know, I'm just a frog!

[The Tori-bot]

especially when he had the disc in his hand and was directly facing the ape.

The disc wasn't big enough to cut a Great Ape in half.

Took the words out of my mouth (well, keyboard). By the time Vegeta actually had the disc ready to throw Gohan was already far wider than it. It probably wouldn't have inflicted lethal damage even if it had hit him right in the kisser. Of the two options, going for the tail was the smart one. It didn't work out so well, but it had better odds than just throwing it at his body and hoping for the best.

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta should have just cut Oozaru Gohan in half instead of his tail.

That's assuming that he could.

[Rocketman]

DB absolutely does overuse the "Idiot Ball". However, "Idiot Ball" is when a character suddenly and obviously changes to do something stupid to force the plot forward.

Vegeta falling asleep after spending the last week awake is not Idiot Ball.
Goku wanting to fight the Androids instead of preventing them from popping up is not Idiot Ball because Goku has always been simple.
Krillin crushing the detonator is Idiot Ball. And then he has the gall to call Vegeta stupid for not finishing it when he could.

[Kid Buu]

Also, Gohan not catching an earring despite catching bullets.

[dbboxkaifan]

Kuririn more than anyone else, even Yamucha wasn't that stupid as they made Kuririn to be.

Kuririn in the films is usually just there to be shown without any good reason, I think it was on the third film which he went with Gohan and Piccolo but what did he do? Nothing, instead he got slapped or something.

[ABED]

Krillin crushing the detonator is Idiot Ball.

It was a dumb move on his part, but it wasn't sudden, things were leading up to that moment for him, and it was established that he had a crush on her.

[thomas1up]

If I had Vegeta's powers, I'd cut him in half, not just go for the tail.

Ok now I'm not sure whether you're talking about when Gohan is about to transform or when he's the ape but I'm gonna tackle both bits.

When Gohan is transforming Vegeta goes to take care of him only to be interrupted by Yajirobe.

Spoiler:

After taking care of Yajirobe Vegeta goes to kill Gohan but it's too late as he's already started transforming.

Spoiler:

Vegeta continues to attempt to kill him to no avail, so he remembers about the tail and attempts to pull it off, only to get bitch smacked by Oozaru Gohan.

Spoiler:

Now at this point Vegeta goes to cut off Gohan's tail, he uses a disc like attack which looks like the Kienzan but I doubt it has the same ability to cut through anything and since Gohan's stronger than him at this point it wouldn't make much sense to gamble what is likely his last bit of energy on cutting him in half when he can just as easily cut off his tail and make him unconscious.... what he didn't count for was Gohan crushing him

Spoiler:

So yeah, what Vegeta did was the smartest thing he could have done in that situation.

[Zephyr]

Also, Gohan not catching an earring despite catching bullets.

To be fair, Gohan wasn't exactly in tip top shape when trying to catch the earring, psychically or psychologically. Plus, he's frequently shown to choke when the pressure is directly put on him by his comrades.