Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by rereboy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:41 am

UpFromTheSkies wrote: It wouldn't be a plot hole. Old Kai unlocked Gohan's full power, he didn't make it so that he couldn't turn into a SSJ.
Yes, he did. When he finished the ritual, Old Kaioshin literally told Gohan to power up to SSJ like he usually does. He tried to but instead of turning SSJ, he just remained in base will all his power at his disposal.

So, no, Gohan literally can't turn SSJ. Anything that shows him going SSJ without a proper explanation is a plothole.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:44 am

Is that supposed to be Freeza's new transformation below their arms in the picture? http://i.imgur.com/XEMffZp.jpg

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by Doctor. » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:45 am

rereboy wrote:
UpFromTheSkies wrote: It wouldn't be a plot hole. Old Kai unlocked Gohan's full power, he didn't make it so that he couldn't turn into a SSJ.
Yes, he did. When he finished the ritual, Old Kaioshin literally told Gohan to power up to SSJ like he usually does. He tried to but instead of turning SSJ, he just remained in base will all his power at his disposal.

So, no, Gohan literally can't turn SSJ. Anything that shows him going SSJ without a proper explanation is a plothole.
Hum, that was basically retconned with Battle of Gods.

He just couldn't turn SSJ during the power-up ritual, we don't have any indication he can't after the ritual. In fact, BoG makes it clear he can.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by rereboy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:55 am

Doctor. wrote:
Hum, that was basically retconned with Battle of Gods.

He just couldn't turn SSJ during the power-up ritual, we don't have any indication he can't after the ritual. In fact, BoG makes it clear he can.
BOB also had him turn SSJ while fighting earlier and then removed it when they realized the mistake, and they didn't offer any proper explanation for him to be able to turn SSJ in any circumstance.

They literally only had to include one or two lines of Gohan saying the ritual's effect has started to wear off, or that, with practice, he realized that he could still turn SSJ, even though that didn't make him stronger. But they didn't. And until they do, its a plothole. A retcon actually explains things so that everything makes at least some sense, even though the initial plan from the writing point of view wasn't for things to develop that way. With no explanation, its a plothole.

And they have had this problem ever since GT! Even in GT all that was necessary was a couple of lines to explain it... Did they do it? No...
Last edited by rereboy on Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by Doctor. » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:57 am

rereboy wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Hum, that was basically retconned with Battle of Gods.

He just couldn't turn SSJ during the power-up ritual, we don't have any indication he can't after the ritual. In fact, BoG makes it clear he can.
BOB also had him turn SSJ while fighting earlier and then removed it when they realized the mistake, and they didn't offer any proper explanation for him to be able to turn SSJ in any circumstance.

They literally only had to have one or two lines of Gohan saying the ritual effect has started to wear off, or that with practice he realized that he could still turn SSJ, even though that didn't make him stronger. But they didn't. And until they do, its a plothole. A retcon actually explains things so that everything makes at least some sense, even though the initial plan form the writing point of view wasn't for things to develop that way. With no explanation, its a plothole.
Gohan turned SSJ for the Super Saiyan God ritual.

But the thing is, Gohan never said "Oh, I can't turn Super Saiyan anymore". Nor did the Elder Kaioshin say it. He couldn't turn Super Saiyan while releasing all of his power as a part of the ritual, that was it.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by rereboy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:01 am

Doctor. wrote:
Gohan turned SSJ for the Super Saiyan God ritual.

But the thing is, Gohan never said "Oh, I can't turn Super Saiyan anymore". Nor did the Elder Kaioshin say it. He couldn't turn Super Saiyan while releasing all of his power as a part of the ritual, that was it.
After the ritual was over, following old Kaioshin's orders, he literally tried to turn SSJ. He failed to do so. Instead, he just "turned mystic". Therefore, its established in the manga that, after the ritual, if he tries to turn SSJ, he just "turns mystic". Something that contradicts that without a proper explanation is a plothole. Don't know how to make it clearer to you.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by hleV » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:27 am

Even if Gohan's ability to go SS remained (which it didn't in the manga), Gohan going SS in BOG is still a plothole because his power was already in his base form and SS was absolutely useless.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by godku23 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:54 am

I like to believe that Gohan appearing SSJ is a result of the others auras.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by Avenged » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:24 pm

Image

Seems that leaked screen of Tagoma may have been pretty accurate.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by AnimeMaakuo » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:30 pm

InfernalVegito wrote:
Chuquita wrote:Someone posted this on the 2ch thread:
This chart perfectly shows the things I don't like about all the new animation. Everything in the bottom row looks so meticulously clean, polished and waxed as if they are all dripped in oil. They just glow all the time making it feel less detailed.

Just looks cheap.
Goten and Trunks look fat in the very bottom row :S. That's disappointing. I'm not a fan of new animation nowadays and wish they could revert to the way it was before :roll:
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:50 pm

JulieYBM wrote:I'm beginning to wonder if Yamamuro was allowed to direct because the majority of the animation would be handled through Yamamuro Animation Studio, thus alleviating the burden on an already taxed Toei Animation?
Perhaps, but wouldn't the timing, budgets, planning be the issues? Since Yamamuro was the one who is directing the film would indicate that no one is willing to take that job. Man, I really wish he wasn't going to be the character designer. :(
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:56 pm

Avenged wrote:Image

Seems that leaked screen of Tagoma may have been pretty accurate.
Wasn't that fan art?

Image

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by Galan007 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:57 pm

Avenged wrote:Seems that leaked screen of Tagoma may have been pretty accurate.
Which screen are you referring to?

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by Avenged » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:04 pm

Yes it was fan art but i was saying it was accurate, find tagoma in that scan I posted. ;)
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by Ajay » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:05 pm

Yes, it was fanart. Someone just added a timecode and took a photo of their monitor.

But yeah, that shot is pretty close.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by Regarder » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:09 pm

One (far out) explanation for Gohan not using the Ultimate form again is that all the Saiyans had the ritual done! The new realm of power overwrit that transformation, just as for Goku that his SS is just a bit stronger than base now and he won't go SS2 or 3 again; absorbing the realm of God power completely changed his ki, and for Gohan erased Ultimate.

Of course, from BoG, we know that a Super Saiyan starting from the same base level can be stronger than a SS3 ( :? ), so maybe that's not necessary and Old Kai was just wrong, and Super Saiyan actually is the best way of doing things. Gohan realized SS is stronger after watching Vegeta, ahuh ahuh (Pennywise laugh)!


EDIT:
Zombie wrote: But I wonder, what can he do? Even bulked up he still wouldn't crack 200. All of Freeza's goons should be in the 1000's.
We only saw a few goons of Freeza's on Namek. For all we know, they were relatively speaking, pretty strong to even be in the 1000s. Though Dodoria, Zarbon, and the Ginyus (who are outright stated to be elite) are much stronger than that, and the few "lower levels" which Freeza brought on this special mission were over 1000, in the broader perspective; out of the presumably thousands upon thousands of troops Freeza has across his empire, maybe most of them don't hit the 1000s. There might be thousands of troops in the 100s in battle power picked out of billions upon billions of races who don't really have average powers much higher than humans.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by Galan007 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:10 pm

Is there a translation of that pamphlet that was posted?

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by kei17 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:10 pm

The shot in which Freeza's spaceship lands looked a little weird to me, so I compared it to a similar scene from DBZ episode 119.


Image
Image

Now I can see why. When there's nothing in the screen to emphasize the size of a large object, you have to depict it by a low angle camera, but they failed to do it and the ship looks awkwardly smaller than it should be.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:18 pm

Yeah, that shot does lack of a lot of weight. The CG for the ship doesn't help, either.

Wow, this is becoming a real disaster.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Fukkatsu no F"

Post by sintzu » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:21 pm

JulieYBM wrote:his is becoming a real disaster.
You should be used to this by now from Toie.
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