Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[jcogginsa]

What expositional? Goku's backstory is still the same. He was sent to Earth under the guise to conquer it. Only Bardock and Gine knows the real truth. Also Goku is still a saiyan. His parents was one of the rare ones that actually care for their families. That doesn't mean they are good. I mean the first picture of Bardock we got in Minus was seeing Bardock killing people.

It's expositional, meaning that its something that it's in the manga for the reader to take at face value with no contradictions and it was the intent of the author for it to be the truth.

The story is clearly not the same. Originally, he was sent to conquer it and, thanks to a lucky blow, he became good. In Minus, he wasn't sent to conquer it. So, no, not the same.

Also, you didn't comment on the fact that:

a) the changes make the story worse;
b) it was changed for no good reason, and
c) it didn't do a good enough job at explaining inconsistencies.

No, originally he was some monkey boy in the mountains that could fight really well. The backstory itself is a change

[fexus]

What expositional? Goku's backstory is still the same. He was sent to Earth under the guise to conquer it. Only Bardock and Gine knows the real truth. Also Goku is still a saiyan. His parents was one of the rare ones that actually care for their families. That doesn't mean they are good. I mean the first picture of Bardock we got in Minus was seeing Bardock killing people.

It's expositional, meaning that its something that it's in the manga for the reader to take at face value with no contradictions.

The story is clearly not the same. Originally, he was sent to conquer it and, thanks to a lucky blow, he became good. In Minus, he wasn't sent to conquer it. So, no, not the same.

Also, you didn't comment on the fact that:

a) the changes make the story worse;
b) it was changed for no good reason, and
c) it didn't do a good enough job at explaining inconsistencies.

No, the story didn't change. The reasoning for it change. The changes has no bearing on what happen afterwards. You have to remember, that only Bardock and Gine knows the real reason why Goku was sent away from Planet Vegeta. We didn't know what happened in that stretch of time until now.

a) your opinion
b) it was change because Toriyama wanted to add his own opinion on what happened
c) the inconsistencies seems to only based on the fact of something that didn't happen in the manga and people's opinion

[rereboy]

No, originally he was some monkey boy in the mountains that could fight really well. The backstory itself is a change

Obviously, there's no logic in what you are saying. The fact that he was found mysteriously on the mountains told the reader that was some story there that he wasn't being told. Immediately upon reading the early chapters, the reader can ask "where did he come from? Who and where are his parents? Why does he have a tail and transforms since every other character thinks that's weird?"

When those questions are finally answered later on, it obviously didn't retcon anything, it just answered them.

Minus doesn't do that. It goes against the story that was in the manga, makes it worse, does it for no good reason, and doesn't explain every inconsistency.

No, the story didn't change.

The story in the manga is him being sent to Earth to conquer it. The story in Minus is him being sent to Earth simply so that he can be safe. The whole reason for why he was sent to Earth changed, thus his backstory changed. Denying this, like you are doing, serves no purpose. And, I'm sorry, but if you are going to insist on illogical points there's no point in discussing with you.

a) your opinion
b) it was change because Toriyama wanted to add his own opinion on what happened
c) the inconsistencies seems to only based on the fact of something that didn't happen in the manga and people's opinion

a) then explain to me how a copy of the Superman story is better than a very clever twist to the Superman story that basically has Superman being evil but becoming good only thank to a stroke of luck and then have that Superman character defy everything about his race, origin and limitations.

b) he had already told his opinion of why Goku was on Earth. He was sent to conquer it. Toriyama just decided to change it for no good reason since nothing good came out that change.

c) Goku didn't only became good after receiving brain damage, for example? Ok.

[fexus]

No, the story didn't change.

The story in the manga is him being sent to Earth to conquer it. The story in Minus is him being sent to Earth simply so that he can be safe. The whole reason for why he was sent to Earth changed, thus his backstory changed. Denying this, like you are doing, serves no purpose. And, I'm sorry, but if you are going to insist on illogical points there's no point in discussing with you.

He was still sent to Earth to conquer it but it's also a way for Bardock to save his son. I mean, it will still be the same thing on what will happen after that. If Grandpa Gohan didn't find him and he didn't get hit on the head, he would still be a Saiyan that wanted to conquer Earth.

Yeah, we should stop this useless discussion.

a) then explain to me how a copy of the Superman story is better than a very clever twist to the Superman story that basically has Superman being evil but becoming good only thank to a stroke of luck and then have that Superman character defy everything about his race, origin and limitations.

b) he had already told his opinion of why Goku was on Earth. He was sent to conquer it. Toriyama just decided to change it for no good reason since nothing good came out that change.

c) Goku didn't only became good after receiving brain damage, for example? Ok.

a) again, your opinion. I would like if you don't try to push your opinion as fact

b) he didn't. That was what Raditz said. Which in fact turns out to be wrong based on Minus

c) he did only become good after he hit his head. He still attacked Gohan. Remember, Bardock and Gine was one of the rare Saiyans that cares for their family. That doesn't mean that they are good Saiyans. The first time we see Bardock in Minus is when he was attacking aliens without feeling a bit of remorse

[SuperSaiyanQ]

I hope that they will leak some scenes soon enough just like last time with Battle of Gods (Goku SSJ3 Vs Beerus, Beerus Vs Z-fighters).

I hope so as well. As for now we didn't even see Blue SSJG So it is hard to tell how it looks in an actual movie.

http://t02.deviantart.net/YLISR4lR-V_CH ... 8o7yh3.png

This is pretty much exactly how I imagined it

[rereboy]

He was still sent to Earth to conquer it but it's also a way for Bardock to save his son. I mean, it will still be the same thing on what will happen after that. If Grandpa Gohan didn't find him and he didn't get hit on the head, he would still be a Saiyan that wanted to conquer Earth.

Yeah, we should stop this useless discussion.

Never in Minus is mentioned that Goku is supposed to conquer Earth. You are adding that interpretation to Minus to compensate for the fact that Minus didn't explain it properly.

[Mystic Tien]

This is pretty much exactly how I imagined it

I am pretty sure that it will look worse in a movie though

[jcogginsa]

No, originally he was some monkey boy in the mountains that could fight really well. The backstory itself is a change

Obviously, there's no logic in what you are saying. The fact that he was found mysteriously on the mountains told the reader that was some story there that he wasn't being told. Immediately upon reading the early chapters, the reader can ask "where did he come from? Who and where are his parents? Why does he have a tail and transforms since every other character thinks that's weird?"

When those questions are finally answered later on, it obviously didn't retcon anything, it just answered them.

Minus doesn't do that. It goes against the story that was in the manga, makes it worse, does it for no good reason, and doesn't explain every inconsistency.

No, the story didn't change.

The story in the manga is him being sent to Earth to conquer it. The story in Minus is him being sent to Earth simply so that he can be safe. The whole reason for why he was sent to Earth changed, thus his backstory changed. Denying this, like you are doing, serves no purpose. And, I'm sorry, but if you are going to insist on illogical points there's no point in discussing with you.

a) your opinion
b) it was change because Toriyama wanted to add his own opinion on what happened
c) the inconsistencies seems to only based on the fact of something that didn't happen in the manga and people's opinion

a) then explain to me how a copy of the Superman story is better than a very clever twist to the Superman story that basically has Superman being evil but becoming good only thank to a stroke of luck and then have that Superman character defy everything about his race, origin and limitations.

b) he had already told his opinion of why Goku was on Earth. He was sent to conquer it. Toriyama just decided to change it for no good reason since nothing good came out that change.

c) Goku didn't only became good after receiving brain damage, for example? Ok.

i don't recall any mystery. He was just adopted. And there's no chance in hell Toriyama intended for him to be an alien from the start

Minus doesn't go against anything. Raditz didn't know why Goku was sent out, so he assumed it was a kill mission like Jaco did. Goku's bad atitude wasn't inherent, just a reaction to losing everything he ever knew.

[fexus]

He was still sent to Earth to conquer it but it's also a way for Bardock to save his son. I mean, it will still be the same thing on what will happen after that. If Grandpa Gohan didn't find him and he didn't get hit on the head, he would still be a Saiyan that wanted to conquer Earth.

Yeah, we should stop this useless discussion.

Never in Minus is mentioned that Goku is supposed to conquer Earth. You are adding that interpretation to Minus to compensate for the fact that Minus didn't explain it properly.

It was said in Minus that he was sent as an infiltration baby.

[rereboy]

i don't recall any mystery. He was just adopted. And there's no chance in hell Toriyama intended for him to be an alien from the start

Minus doesn't go against anything. Raditz didn't know why Goku was sent out, so he assumed it was a kill mission like Jaco did. Goku's bad atitude wasn't inherent, just a reaction to losing everything he ever knew.

Really? All you know from Goku early on is that he was found in the mountains and you don't admit that there's mystery to his origin and that those answers are simply not given at that time?

It doesn't matter if Toriyama meant for him to be a alien or not at the time because Toriyama literally left every possible scenario open for his origin simply by leaving all those questions unanswered. That's why when those questions are answered later on, even if it's something only thought of later on by the author, it doesn't retcon anything.

Your explanation of Goku behaving badly because he lost his family is just conjencture with no real basis that is trying to mend the inconsistencies left unanswered by Minus. Minus doesn't answer that so you came up with that explanation to compensate for it.

[jcogginsa]

i don't recall any mystery. He was just adopted. And there's no chance in hell Toriyama intended for him to be an alien from the start

Minus doesn't go against anything. Raditz didn't know why Goku was sent out, so he assumed it was a kill mission like Jaco did. Goku's bad atitude wasn't inherent, just a reaction to losing everything he ever knew.

Really? All you know from Goku early on is that he was found in the mountains and you don't admit that there's mystery to his origin and that those answers are simply not given at that time?

It doesn't matter if Toriyama meant for him to be a alien or not at the time because Toriyama literally left every possible scenario open for his origin simply by leaving all those questions unanswered. That's why when those questions are answered later on, even if it's something only thought of later on by the author, it doesn't retcon anything.

Your explanation of Goku behaving badly because he lost his family is just conjencture with no real basis that is trying to mend the inconsistencies left unanswered by Minus. Minus doesn't answer that so you came up with that explanation to compensate for it.

The story never made a big deal of it. It wasn't a mystery, it was just backstory. If you complain that Minus was a change from the Saiyan arc, then you must complain that the Saiyan arc was also a change.

Yes, there is a basis for Goku behaving badly because of losing his family. We know he was not sent to conquer earth because of Minus. We know people thought he did because of Jaco. We know he behaved Badly because of the saiyan arc. We know he was old enough to know his family because of Minus. Thus, from that data we can conclude he behaved badly because he lost his family, which is consistent with all of those facts

[SuperSaiyanQ]

This is pretty much exactly how I imagined it

I am pretty sure that it will look worse in a movie though

Your avatar looks sick ! But ahhh I hope not , part of me thinks it has the potential to look really good but the other half thinks it'll be a cheap recolour.
Did Julian give an opinion on it ?
Also would've liked to see both Goku and Vegeta fighting using the forms alongside each other
Next movie maybe ?

[rereboy]

It was said in Minus that he was sent as an infiltration baby.

No, Bardock said that he was sending Kakarott off to another planet and Gine, not knowing his reasons or what he was thinking, questioned him and ask if he wants Kakarott to be a rocket baby or a infiltration baby. Bardock then explains that he wants Kakarot away because he has a feeling of death. Bardock never mentioned that he wanted Kakakot to fulfill that job, he just said that he wanted him away.

[Mystic Tien]

This is pretty much exactly how I imagined it

I am pretty sure that it will look worse in a movie though

Your avatar looks sick ! But ahhh I hope not , part of me thinks it has the potential to look really good but the other half thinks it'll be a cheap recolour.
Did Julian give an opinion on it ?
Also would've liked to see both Goku and Vegeta fighting using the forms alongside each other
Next movie maybe ?

Mystic Tien is the best Well, I hope that it would look good as well... But some part of me feels that it would look bad
I don't remember him actually saying anything about it, I could miss it though.
Goku and Vegeta fighting alongside each other in the next movie would be awesome!

[rereboy]

The story never made a big deal of it. It wasn't a mystery, it was just backstory. If you complain that Minus was a change from the Saiyan arc, then you must complain that the Saiyan arc was also a change.

mystery [mis-tuh-ree, -tree] noun, plural mysteries: 1. anything that is kept secret or remains unexplained or unknown.

You are quite literally denying the definition of mystery just to disagree.

Yes, there is a basis for Goku behaving badly because of losing his family.We know he was not sent to conquer earth because of Minus. We know people thought he did because of Jaco. We know he behaved Badly because of the saiyan arc. We know he was old enough to know his family because of Minus. Thus, from that data we can conclude he behaved badly because he lost his family, which is consistent with all of those facts

Kakarott was kept in the incubator apparently ever since he was born. We have no idea how he interacts with his mother through it, if he spends all the time sleeping or anything about it, really.

And yet you are ready to assume that not only he did it to the same degree as a human three year old, enough to develop strong attachments to his mother, but also that he would behave badly due to missing her, even though we really don't know if he would react that way. And you claim that all these assumptions have a clear basis in the manga and the fact that Minus failed to explain any of this, leaving you to come up with these assumptions and explanation as an attempt to mend it is no problem. Right.

[jcogginsa]

The story never made a big deal of it. It wasn't a mystery, it was just backstory. If you complain that Minus was a change from the Saiyan arc, then you must complain that the Saiyan arc was also a change.

mystery [mis-tuh-ree, -tree] noun, plural mysteries: 1. anything that is kept secret or remains unexplained or unknown.

You are quite literally denying the definition of mystery just to disagree.

Yes, there is a basis for Goku behaving badly because of losing his family.We know he was not sent to conquer earth because of Minus. We know people thought he did because of Jaco. We know he behaved Badly because of the saiyan arc. We know he was old enough to know his family because of Minus. Thus, from that data we can conclude he behaved badly because he lost his family, which is consistent with all of those facts

Kakarott was kept in the incubator apparently ever since he was born. We have no idea how he interacts with his mother through it, if he spends all the time sleeping or anything about it, really.

And yet you are ready to assume that not only he did it to the same degree as a human three year old, enough to develop strong attachments to his mother, but also that he would behave badly due to missing her, even though we really don't know if he would react that way. And you claim that all these assumptions have a clear basis in the manga and the fact that Minus failed to explain any of this, leaving you to come up with these assumptions and explanation as an attempt to mend it is no problem. Right.

It's basic logic. We see Goku land at Kame house, we assume he flew there not jumped there. We know Goku wasn't sent to Earth to kill everything and we know he behaved badly as a child. There's obviously a reason for that, we just don't get it spelled out to us

[kei17]

I watched the movie again and noticed an instrumental version of 'F' playing when Goku starts fighting in the new form.

[fadeddreams5]

I watched the movie again and noticed an instrumental version of 'F' playing when Goku starts fighting in the new form.

When does that girl group's song play?

[rereboy]

It's basically logic. We see Goku land at Kame house, we assume he flew there not jumped there. We know Goku wasn't sent to Earth to kill everything and we know he behaved badly as a child. There's obviously a reason for that, we just don't get it spelled out to us

You are missing the point. We already had an established reason and motivation for Goku to be sent to Earth. Minus didn't reveal it, it contradicted it and replaced it with a new one by saying that his purpose on Earth was to be saved, not to conquer Earth.

That on itself would not be a real problem if Minus did this a) explaining it properly without inconsistencies; b) if it did this with a good purpose in mind, and c) if it did this to improve the story. I wouldn't have a problem with this retcon if these three things happened.

But it fails in all these three factors, imo.

[SuperSaiyanQ]

I am pretty sure that it will look worse in a movie though [/quote]

Your avatar looks sick ! But ahhh I hope not , part of me thinks it has the potential to look really good but the other half thinks it'll be a cheap recolour.
Did Julian give an opinion on it ?
Also would've liked to see both Goku and Vegeta fighting using the forms alongside each other
Next movie maybe ?[/quote]

Mystic Tenshinhan is the best Well, I hope that it would look good as well... But some part of me feels that it would look bad
I don't remember him actually saying anything about it, I could miss it though.
Goku and Vegeta fighting alongside each other in the next movie would be awesome![/quote]

Ahaa looks beastly , yeah I'm checking everyday for a leaked pic , I swear they didn't keep God Goku hidden for this long last year ?