ShadowWolf87 wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:ShadowWolf87 wrote:Where in the world are you getting that from?
Battle of Gods, Ressurection F, and Toriyama himself.
We see in BoG through Goku vs Beerus that God, base, and SS are on the same level, since Goku didn't notice the difference when changing forms (he hadn't even realized he was changing forms), and Beerus stated that after Goku absorbed the power of SSG, his power decreased insignificantly.
FnF also shows that base Goku is about as strong as God Goku.
Toriyama said that after the fight with Beerus,
Goku will stop using Super Saiyan God because he doesn't need it, and
he won't be using SS2 & SS3 anymore because they consume too much energy, implying that if Goku had used SS2 or SS3 against Beerus, he wouldn't get any stronger like it happened with regular Super Saiyan, so Goku will only be using his base & SS now. FnF shows that SS can still give a significant increase by combining it with SSG.
None of that is implied by any of these things.
I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God.
Goku didn't realize he'd lost his form because it had been absorbed into him, it was part of him. But he knew he was powering up when he burst through those rocks. What Toriyama said was Goku, having absorbed said Godly ki into himself, no longer needed the ritual to take that form when he already had access to that power.
Similarly, SSJ2 and SSJ3, while giving a boost in power, also consume energy far faster. They've always done so.
Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength...
Right there he even says they're still powered-up versions of said transformations, but they also burn through your stamina rapidly. They're best used only when needed or in short bursts, whereas continuing to improve himself in his base form and using only one transformation would allow him to maintain stamina as well as become less reliant on having to transform and risk what happened when fighting Buu. That's not saying they're at the same level in the least.
Thinking about it, it seems that Toriyama is talking about Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2 & Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 3.
In BoG, we see that regular Super Saiyan no longer gives an increase in Goku's power, or it gives an insignificant increase at most. So logically, the same would go for regular Super Saiyan 2 & Super Saiyan 3.
However, we see in FnF that Goku can increase the power of Super Saiyan by combining it with Super Saiyan God, though the increase is much smaller than it was before. It's less than x2 for sure, since he is still weaker than Beerus. Logically, Super Saiyan 2 & Super Saiyan 3 should each give an increase like Super Saiyan does, but the increases should also be even smaller than they were before. But the increases now are no longer above the drawbacks like they were before (there was no way to beat Cell without Super Saiyan 2, and no way to fight Boo without Super Saiyan 3), meaning that SS2 & SS3 are now like Super Saiyan Grades 2 & 3, where the negatives are bigger than the possitives.
To put it simple, it seems that after absorbing the power of SSGod, it is base <= SS <= SS2 <= SS3 <= SSG < SSGSS < SSGSS2 < SSGSS3.
Marlowe89 wrote:Nowhere in the film or in official material is this ever remotely implied. It is literally Super Saiyan 1 using the power of Super Saiyan God, nothing more and nothing less. This is explicitly stated.
It increases base Goku's strength, who is around as strong as SSGod.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
