Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Chuquita]

I distinctly remember BOG's summary didn't show everything, so I've decided no matter my reaction to it once it shows up that there's probably still more to see. Everyone will be looking for something different, and would write the summary differently.

[Mystic Tien]

I recall reading that Toriyama had intended to actually end it with the Saiyans, which I can actually believe. But I don't know if the man himself has actually outright spoken on it.

I believe it was explained in one of these sections - http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/

[Lord Beerus]

Oh man gotta love Toriyama, Freeza finally becomes Gold only to find out Blue is the new Super Saiyan

Is it confirmed there is actually a blue transformation in the movie?

Yeah, Kei confirmed it in the middle of him answering my other questions - http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 87#p900887

Oh, boy. This should be interesting to watch. Blue is officially the new Gold.

[Beerus-sama]

We dont actually know what happened between Beerus and Freeza, this should be something to elaborate in a new movie/special or something. (I would like that)
For what I have read, this is part of Whis test as their new master.

And Beerus wouldnt even fight Freeza to destroy him so it wouldnt be fun.

But you know how Beerus is. Even if it may be entirely fun, his mindset would still be to destroy and wreck for the hell of it.

For what we saw in BoG, he likes to scare people with the fact that he can destroy them.

He knows what he has to destroy and what not, only if he doesn't really gets annoyed by something.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I recall reading that Toriyama had intended to actually end it with the Saiyans, which I can actually believe. But I don't know if the man himself has actually outright spoken on it.

I believe it was explained in one of these sections - http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/

I found the part about Z

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/saiyan/

As Toriyama explains, “Z is the last letter in the alphabet, right? So, at the time I already really wanted to end the series, and so I made the title ‘Z’ to say ‘Hey, this is the end!'”

[Cold Skin]

Guys, we can't be any clearer than Toriyama: "AS IF CONTINUING THE MANGA".

You are watching a new saga unfold, cut into movies because it's more handy this way for Toriyama.
This is as if you were watching the Cell saga as movies and bitched because Vegeta just killed C-19. "What was the point of bringing that supposedly fearsome enemy just to have him die so soon?"
This is as if you were watching the Freezer saga as movies and bitched because Raditz was killed in one fight. "What was the point of bringing that supposedly fearsome enemy just to have him die so soon?"
This is as if you were watching the whole fight against Freezer on Namek. "It's all action, no plot development, no universe-expanding info, what the hell?"
The point was the plot wanted by Toriyama which has yet a lot to unfold. Period.
The only difference is that Toriyama wants to remain free to invent the next threat in due time, so he doesn't announce the next enemy so as to not be prisonner of that idea in one year from now, he just has a bad guy vaguely stating "everything went according to plan", just enough to make you see - in case this wasn't already obvious enough through his repeated statements - "just like in the manga arcs, there's something bigger coming, this was not the main event of the new saga".

And if continuing the manga, Toriyama would not go from "here are new elements from the universe and a new level to reach" to "and now here is immediately the new ultimate enemy of the saga".
Freezer is just training so that he doesn't have to come up with the new saga's new enemy (or enemies, you know how usual sagas are built with various enemies going higher and higher) yet, a clever idea that was inspired to him by a song. Beerus turns out to be an ally, Freezer is an updated past opponent as training...
This is structured like almost every arc in Dragon Ball ever, and you guys are acting as if the saga was always about Freezer and that he was the intended enemy.

It is spelled out for you: Toriyama keeps saying it's written as if continuing the manga meaning as a new saga he comes up with as time goes by just as usual, a bad guy in the movie gives the clear info that it's actually still the intro to something bigger coming, and you have an obvious training that is movie-long with masters watching and teaching their pupils all along.

You bitching about this movie's content is like you bitching about an episode showing Gohan and Goten train, or Goku and Gohan train, or Piccolo and Gohan train: it's a tiny little part of a bigger plot, quit whining, enjoy the episode and what it will bring and wait for the next episode.

You can't ask for the big plot to be rushed, you can't ask when a movie ends with "there are 12 universes" to have "next movie: the 12 universes", this is - luckily - not the way a Dragon Ball saga unfolds.
Really, stop thinking this movie is the ENDGAME of the plot supposed to bring the apotheosis of what's been built up so far, it's one chapter meant to be nothing more than one chapter in the whole series of continuation chapters that will build things up as time goes by.

[djkalteraphine]

I distinctly remember BOG's summary didn't show everything, so I've decided no matter my reaction to it once it shows up that there's probably still more to see. Everyone will be looking for something different, and would write the summary differently.

Yeah. These spoilers are nice for us who can't wait or don't want to go in totally blind (for me, it's to keep my expectation in check, which I didn't for BoG and was crushed as a result), but remember that reading about something second/third/fourth hand is not the same as seeing it. If you love Dragon Ball (and I bet you do), just keep calm and have fun.

[Doctor.]

he just has a bad guy vaguely stating "everything went according to plan",

Fake rumor.

[Basaku]

All of the arcs in Z didn't have much meat in their plot, with the exceptions of perhaps the Freeza arc and the Android arc.

So urhm like kinda 2 major arcs that catapulted DBZ into global phenomenon lol? You're arguing this and then repeating exactly what I said lol

And only Vegeta got character development? What about Mr Satan? Majin Boo? Videl?

Secondary characters? I'll give it to Buu. Previous arcs did much more with char developement of the Z fighters (aka the main cast) than Buu arc did

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Oh, boy. This should be interesting to watch. Blue is officially the new Gold.

Yeah, I am really curious to see how it looks on screen, SSG looked stunning in BoG , so hopefully the blue Super Saiyan will look as good

I distinctly remember BOG's summary didn't show everything, so I've decided no matter my reaction to it once it shows up that there's probably still more to see. Everyone will be looking for something different, and would write the summary differently.

Yeah. These spoilers are nice for us who can't wait or don't want to go in totally blind (for me, it's to keep my expectation in check, which I didn't for BoG and was crushed as a result), but remember that reading about something second/third/fourth hand is not the same as seeing it. If you love Dragon Ball (and I bet you do), just keep calm and have fun.

Yeah, I myself feel I have enough Info about this movie and I will instant transmission out of here once said summary goes live.

[ekrolo2]

Guys, we can't be any clearer than Toriyama: "AS IF CONTINUING THE MANGA".

You are watching a new saga unfold, cut into movies because it's more handy this way for Toriyama.
This is as if you were watching the Cell saga as movies and bitched because Vegeta just killed C-19. "What was the point of bringing that supposedly fearsome enemy just to have him die so soon?"
This is as if you were watching the Freezer saga as movies and bitched because Raditz was killed in one fight. "What was the point of bringing that supposedly fearsome enemy just to have him die so soon?"
The point was the plot wanted by Toriyama which has yet a lot to unfold. Period.
The only difference is that Toriyama wants to remain free to invent the next threat in due time, so he doesn't announce the next enemy so as to not be prisonner of that idea in one year from now, he just has a bad guy vaguely stating "everything went according to plan", just enough to make you see - in case this wasn't already obvious enough through his repeated statements - "just like in the manga arcs, there's something bigger coming, this was not the main event of the new saga".

And if continuing the manga, Toriyama would not go from "here are new elements from the universe and a new level to reach" to "and now here is immediately the new ultimate enemy of the saga".
Freezer is just training so that you don't reveal the new saga's new enemy (or enemies, you know how usual sagas are built with various enemies going higher and higher) yet. Beerus turns out to be an ally, Freezer is an updated past opponent as training...
This is structured like almost every arc in Dragon Ball ever, and you guys are acting as if the saga was always about Freezer and that he was the intended enemy.

It is spelled out for you: Toriyama keeps saying it's written as if continuing the manga meaning as a new saga he comes up with as time goes by just as usual, a bad guy in the movie gives the clear info that it's actually still the intro to something bigger coming, and you have an obvious training that is movie-long with masters watching and teaching their pupils all along.

You bitching about this movie's content is like you bitching about an episode showing Gohan and Goten train, or Goku and Gohan train, or Piccolo and Gohan train: it's a tiny little part of a bigger plot, quit whining, enjoy the episode and what it will bring and wait for the next episode.

You can't ask for the big plot to be rushed, you can't ask when a movie ends with "there are 12 universes" to have "next movie: the 12 universes", this is - luckily - not the way a Dragon Ball saga unfolds.
Really, stop thinking this movie is the ENDGAME of the plot supposed to bring the apotheosis of what's been built up so far, it's one chapter meant to be nothing more than one chapter in the whole series of continuation chapters that will build things up as time goes by.

A very good point if not for the fact we have to wait two mother f*cking years in-between each of these supposed "arc sections" that the films comprise, in the manga you didn't care because the story advanced the week after. Here, you're shit out of luck until early 2017 rolls around. So no, the whole "it works like the manga did" argument falls entirely apart because its not acceptable to make a movie that essentially does fuck just so the next movie, two years away might I add, does something relevant. This isn't the manga, this is a movie series and you cannot plot it out like a series of manga chapters. Either change the formula and make them all matter, or put out side OVA content in-between the movies where pointless garbage like Ressurection F can be done without wasting everyones time.
.
Imagine if the Marvel movies did the same thing as Dragon Ball is, we'd still be waiting for the Avengers 1 to happen if they all spent two years on each individual film release with nothing to bridge the gap.

[Cold Skin]

he just has a bad guy vaguely stating "everything went according to plan",

Fake rumor.

^ Ah, my bad. Well, he doesn't even restrain himself to any "plan" then.
But this movie still isn't an end in itself.
It's not meant to be Goku and Vegeta training with Whis and BOOM - you'll never see the end of it, the epilogue happens with no more events described in between.

A very good point if not for the fact we have to wait two mother f*cking years in-between each of these supposed "arc sections" that the films comprise, in the manga you didn't care because the story advanced the week after. Here, you're shit out of luck until early 2017 rolls around. So no, the whole "it works like the manga did" argument falls entirely apart because its not acceptable to make a movie that essentially does fuck just so the next movie, two years away might I add, does something relevant. This isn't the manga, this is a movie series and you cannot plot it out like a series of manga chapters. Either change the formula and make them all matter, or put out side OVA content in-between the movies where pointless garbage like Ressurection F can be done without wasting everyones time.
.
Imagine if the Marvel movies did the same thing as Dragon Ball is, we'd still be waiting for the Avengers 1 to happen if they all spent two years on each individual film release with nothing to bridge the gap.

Then you're asking Toriyama not to do his thing, you're asking him not to write the continuation of the manga as he would do it.
Then what's the point of having Toriyama on board writing the supposed continuation? Have a movie scriptwriter writing something that is not what we would see in additionnal manga pages.

Choose: it's either the true continuation of the manga as if writing for new published pages, or it's self-contained movies which is never what we would have seen in the manga, which is therefore a false vision of what a continuation would be like.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Have Kei17 or SaiyaJedi said how good or bad the CGI is?

[sintzu]

this movie is the ENDGAME of the plot.

Another thing is if this was Toriyama's last story, then they would have promoted it as such.

[ekrolo2]

Then you're asking Toriyama not to do his thing, you're asking him not to write the continuation of the manga as he would do it.
Then what's the point of having Toriyama on board writing the supposed continuation? Have a movie script writer writing something that is not what we would see in additionnal manga pages.

If this is how he goes about doing it, then his way can 100% go the way of the Dodo as far as I'm concerned as it is right now. Either make shorter movies like the Toei 90s ones to make the wait less long or adapt to how normal people who've actually evolved the way film storytelling is done and make your longer movies matter, because if every one of his future movies is done like this where every other is gonna nothing but a 90 minute filler fight scene, they might as well shit can it all now and spare everyone the trouble.

[Analytical Delusion]

Am I the only Freeza fan who's optimistic/satisfied now? Yesterday I was up and down, but there are a ton of positive takeaways. It also seems implied there will be a third movie (I'd think Whis wouldn't train Goku/Vegeta for no apparent reason, and it couldn't have been in anticipation for Freeza...using it as a teaching opportunity to tell Goku not to be so lenient also makes it seem like they're building up to something BIG in the next film).

[Lord Beerus]

All of the arcs in Z didn't have much meat in their plot, with the exceptions of perhaps the Freeza arc and the Android arc.

So urhm like kinda 2 major arcs that catapulted DBZ into global phenomenon lol? You're arguing this and then repeating exactly what I said lol

No. You said every arc in Z, excluding the Majin Boo arc, had a strong plot, character development, world building etc. Which I countered by saying that only really 2 arcs in the show, excluding the Majin Boo arc, do that. Hell, actually looking back, I'd say the Saiyan arc and Freeza arc were the only two arcs that did that.

And only Vegeta got character development? What about Mr Satan? Majin Boo? Videl?

Secondary characters? I'll give it to Buu. Previous arcs did much more with char developement of the Z fighters (aka the main cast) than Buu arc did[/quote]
No. They didn't the only secondary character that character development in Z was Piccolo and Gohan during the Saiyan arc.

[Chuquita]

I distinctly remember BOG's summary didn't show everything, so I've decided no matter my reaction to it once it shows up that there's probably still more to see. Everyone will be looking for something different, and would write the summary differently.

Yeah. These spoilers are nice for us who can't wait or don't want to go in totally blind (for me, it's to keep my expectation in check, which I didn't for BoG and was crushed as a result), but remember that reading about something second/third/fourth hand is not the same as seeing it. If you love Dragon Ball (and I bet you do), just keep calm and have fun.

I'm definitely having more fun than immediately before the screening. Just knowing I'm getting thrown some Movie 12 style presents is enough to get me excited.

[djkalteraphine]

Choose: it's either the true continuation of the manga as if writing for new published pages, or it's self-contained movies which is never what we would have seen in the manga, which is therefore a false vision of what a continuation would be like.

Or the third option, the Goku and Friends approach; Toriyama pitches in on the story concept end, and gives it to Takao (or another screenplay writer, but Takao is the usual pick for DBZ) to write out a finalized product. For my money, GaF is the best new DB we've gotten since they started animating it again. Goku's comment about Freeza, "In hindsight, not much of a foe..." with that oh so cute Son pout on his face really rings especially poignant to the way this thread has gone since we found out the ending to FnF, eh?

[ShaneisMC]

I think my only major complaints about what I've heard is how the movie just ends without a setup for a sequel. And also if I recall, it shows nothing of or explains any of Freeza's training? ......Are you fucking kidding me? He went from 120,000,000 to God status and we get no explanation? That is FUCKED up.