Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a problem

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EXBadguy
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Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a problem

Post by EXBadguy » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:27 pm

Yep, you read the question. Why is that? Why was there outrage when SSJ4 Broly were first announced in one game? Why do we have to use the "this character isn't cannon, so he shouldn't be playable in this game" excuse? Why do some people pretend GT isn't canon when it actually took place after Z and doesn't give the show credit where it's due? Ya see, there's a difference between not liking something and making excuses to not put something in. It's okay to not like GT or "this what-if character", but don't try to dissuade other people's fun. This franchise is about to turn 30 FREAKING years old and people still want the same story, same characters, this and that, and not want something new? Honestly, I think Toei, NB, and all the other DB companies SHOULD get wild and make as many nonsensical what-ifs as possible. Heroes is doing a great job with that.

Hell, give me a fucking Super Saiyan 5 already!
Last edited by EXBadguy on Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:41 pm

Heroes is mindless fun in my opinion. I think as long they only exist in video games then they are fine by me.
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by omegalucas » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:08 pm

I don't mind SSJ4 Broly, I just dislike his design. I wish he was slim, because right now Broly has far too many bulky forms.
(On the other hand I kinda like his design as a Golden Oozaru, just wish that the hair was a bit less spikey and that he wasn't green.)
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by samuraix123 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:37 pm

I don't get into the ''What is canon and what isn't canon'' stuff either. I've heard some people say the reason why GT isn't canon is because there wasn't a manga? I personally would love to see a new series based on the stories from Dragonball Online. In my opinion that is a great foundation for them to work with. and as much as I dislike some things about GT, In my opinion I consider it a continuation of the story.
This franchise is about to turn 30 FREAKING years old and people still want the same story, same characters, this and that, and not want something new?
In their defense though...Some people just don't like change or they don't want it to change, they're happy as it is. I can't fault them for that. and from what I've been seeing sometimes around here is that people seem more comfortable with new Movies,Specials,OVA's, than they are with the idea of a brand new series! It may have something to do with some are afraid it might be like GT all over again. :P BUT! I say lets risk it on the story of DBO. :)
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by Bussani » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:11 pm

For some reason, everyone has their own definition of the word "canon". This leads to a lot of misunderstandings. For instance:
samuraix123 wrote:I've heard some people say the reason why GT isn't canon is because there wasn't a manga?
They probably mean that they don't think it's part of the "manga canon", meaning that Mr. Toriyama might not consider it when coming up with new material for the franchise (e.g. Battle of Gods, etc.) Maybe they'd be fine with the idea of an "anime canon" that includes all the filler episodes, specials, and GT.

Mike wrote an interesting post on the subject of canon. It's worth looking at!
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by InfernalVegito » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:29 pm

I think every side is correct to some extent. Putting exotic and new characters into the games can be seen as wasting money, space and time to flesh out the main characters and stories in the first place. At least that's the most common retort I've seen so far. As in person A saying "Why don't you want GT in the game? Do you want the same stuff all the time?" and person B rebutting with "I don't like it and I'd much rather them spend their time to correctly do Z first and then they can go further with the next games." I definitely can see what they mean by that since it obviously is more demanding putting more in than less. Then surely there are also simply those who don't want new stuff because it's not by made and signed by the author himself, or just because they outright hate it for whatever reasons there are left.

But who knows? Maybe I'm also just wrong on this because there isn't really anything that I hate in this franchise. Can't really relate to such people. Either I like something or, well, just don't care enough about it to let it affect me in such a negative way to not want it to exist at all (looking at all the transformations for characters in Heroes like LSSJ4 Broly which countless people complain about).

Too bad, because I am really all for including more sparsely used as well as completely new characters, be they just old characters achieving new transformations or using outfits they didn't use in a long time. Just shake it all up a bit.
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by sintzu » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:44 pm

The problem is the way it's used.
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by dbboxkaifan » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:39 pm

I for one don't care if the content's canon or not, just as long as I like it and find it interesting that's all that matters to me.

In NeoGameSpark's review of Battle of Gods once he started talking about "I think a lot of fans were eagerly anticipating something new, something that also happens to be canon." he lost me because in all my years as a fan I never cared about canon stuff but honestly I couldn't be bothered to watch a video of 18min with him talking (he also went and disrespected Dragon Ball GT which I also happen to appreciate).

Then there's those who focus on the battle powers although I never really understood why that's so important unless it's to know which one's the stronger but still, going by numbers doesn't always mean he's stronger than the other which has a lower battle power.
I don't mind SSJ4 Broly, I just dislike his design. I wish he was slim, because right now Broly has far too many bulky forms.
A slimmed Broli? Oh I'd totally like to see this happening because the bulky Broli forms really have become overused and boring.
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by EXBadguy » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:06 pm

sintzu wrote:The problem is the way it's used.
If you're talking about over-saturating them, then I agree. If not, Nope! They deserve the spotlight. We've seen the same canon characters a million times already.
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by xmysticgohanx » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:04 pm

GT is said to be non canon because Toriyama called it a side story
Canon is Jaco, Dragon Ball except for EoZ, Dragon Ball Super anime and manga (both are separate canons)
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by Attitudefan » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:48 pm

I was going to post a topic questioning why is it so important that movies don't fall into the timeline or that they are placed or have characters that shouldn't be around because of canonical purposes. To me, it doesn't matter as long as it is enjoyable. Why should that matter?
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:46 pm

Attitudefan wrote:I was going to post a topic questioning why is it so important that movies don't fall into the timeline or that they are placed or have characters that shouldn't be around because of canonical purposes. To me, it doesn't matter as long as it is enjoyable. Why should that matter?
To be clear, I'm of the same opinion as you--why should it matter? I don't believe it does.

So I can't relate to it, but I think I understand it. I think, on a purely psychological level, some fans feel as though something they love is belittled or invalidated when specific parts of it that they don't like all of sudden count as canon. They register it as either saying, "What you previously thought about this franchise doesn't count now, your opinions are invalid," or, "This stupid thing that you didn't like is now something that you have to accept and like."

I understand and applaud that people have passion about fictional universes, but I personally can't relate to some of the heated passions behind canon debates. These are, after all, fictional universes. My thought is, since they're not real, we get to believe for ourselves what we want to count as real and what we don't.*

*On that note, I believe Han shot first, despite what Lucas says.
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by ImmaDeker » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:36 am

Bussani wrote:For some reason, everyone has their own definition of the word "canon".
It's because canon as a concept is inherently subjective but nobody who cares a lot about canon here is actually well read enough to understand what this really basic word actually means.

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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by Rocketman » Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:36 pm

EXBadguy wrote:Yep, you read the question. Why is that? Why was there outrage when SSJ4 Broly were first announced in one game?
Broly is a terrible overused piece of shit. Hope that helps.

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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:43 pm

DBZ Budokai and sequels stuff was fun.... Heroes is just lazy and poorly done. It's just, let's make all the characters SSJ3, so we can have 15 more cards to sell, slap those long hair on them, done.
And Brolli is the same. It's the same LSSJ Brolli, but with added fur, black hair, tail and those red markings around the eyes. Cool. If there was at least some thought behind those designs, but there is none.
Baby Janemba as well, Super Paikuhan.... it all looks like some wet teenage fanboy's deviantart gallery.

I don't care about deep in-universe shizzle and lack of story in arcade game (which makes sense) but for love of God, look at those designs....
DB Online had better designs miles above DBH and it was done by Koreans (yeah, gaijins).
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:29 pm

I don't care what Heroes does since I never view it canon to the series and those forms are only exclusive to Heroes. If they do SSj5 and make it a Heroes exclusive then that would be fine by me.
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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:38 am

Rocketman wrote:
EXBadguy wrote:Yep, you read the question. Why is that? Why was there outrage when SSJ4 Broly were first announced in one game?
Broly is a terrible overused piece of shit. Hope that helps.
Pretty much this, at least for this one specific issue.
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Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Don't understand WHY the what-if/noncanon stuff is a pro

Post by hleV » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:53 am

There are people who don't mind nonsense, there are people who do.

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