Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by hleV » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:46 am

Right, clearly there's something wrong with me and not the movie itself if I like pretty much everything about DB even though it has flaws, but I dislike BOG.

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by Dbzk1999 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:07 am

hleV wrote:Right, clearly there's something wrong with me and not the movie itself if I like pretty much everything about DB even though it has flaws, but I dislike BOG.
No
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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:52 am

hleV wrote:DB is good because Toriyama + Editor, not just Toriyama. Stop defending BOG only because it happened to deliver what you enjoy about DB, because it didn't deliver what many others enjoy about DB.
hleV wrote:The attacks are due to the movie's flaws. The defending is due to... someone liking the movie? Attacks (not necessarily all kinds of, but still) are justified, defending is not.
hleV wrote:Right, clearly there's something wrong with me and not the movie itself if I like pretty much everything about DB even though it has flaws, but I dislike BOG.
...Seriously? You really need to re-read your own posts here, because if you can't see that you're essentially saying 'No, my opinion is correct, if you have a differing one, than you're wrong and there's something wrong with you!', then...I really don't know what else to say to you.

I'm not even denying that Battle of Gods is divisive. There are tons of people that dislike it; but there are also tons of people that love it. Clearly both opinions are completely valid, but by denying this and never even listing any reasons for why you don't like it, all you're doing is a disservice towards your own opinion.
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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by shinmaru » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:39 am

The most critical part I'm afraid of Is when they change the sound effects. Some sound effects In BOG were boring.

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by rereboy » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:57 am

hleV wrote:Right, clearly there's something wrong with me and not the movie itself if I like pretty much everything about DB even though it has flaws, but I dislike BOG.
There's something wrong with the movie to you. Its your opinion. Your opinion is the criteria by which only you determine if there's something wrong with the movie, nobody else follows that criteria, everybody else follows their own criteria, namely their own opinion. That is why statements like "Stop defending BOG only because it happened to deliver what you enjoy about DB", don't make any sense.

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by hleV » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:27 pm

rereboy wrote:
hleV wrote:Right, clearly there's something wrong with me and not the movie itself if I like pretty much everything about DB even though it has flaws, but I dislike BOG.
There's something wrong with the movie to you. Its your opinion. Your opinion is the criteria by which only you determine if there's something wrong with the movie, nobody else follows that criteria, everybody else follows their own criteria, namely their own opinion.
Exactly. And why would there be something wrong with BOG, but not DB, for me, if there actually wasn't anything wrong with it? If more than just a few people find that something is wrong, then something has to be wrong. It's just of different importance to different people.
If X is about fighting and X2 is about dancing and people happen to like X2, it doesn't mean that something being wrong with X2 is subjective.
I'm applying logic here, not preference.

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by rereboy » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:43 pm

You literally didn't understand anything I said.

Btw, many people like everything in Dragon Ball AND Battle of Gods and disagree with what you said. How you can't understand from this that not liking BOG is just your opinion is beyond me.

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by Mr.Judge » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:56 pm

hleV wrote:Right, clearly there's something wrong with me and not the movie itself if I like pretty much everything about DB even though it has flaws, but I dislike BOG.
Started reading from pg.7

I expressed my displeasure when I joined this website it was my first thread and post about BOG but definitely don't hate any movies except maybe disliked bio broly.
hate would be too strong a word for me. I disliked the concept and the entire premise of ritual of 6-10(plot was written counting the number of saiyans so number could be anything whatever Akira Toriyama wanted) saiyans giving energy to power a person to make a saiyan god. it looks straight out of Naruto/Sailor Moon power of love, hope etc.it was like I was again Watching Movie 8 Broly where every body lends his power to Goku where all are stuck in desperate situation but the tone in BOG felt bland due to the added ritual nonsense.
What I'd prefer would be the lending of everybody power to Goku trigger that transformation mid fight and Whis should have explained the situation.
Even Kami had to separate his evil self to become god of earth.I am of the opinion that it would be better if the saiyan god concept is entirely scraped.

Beerus 'wake up' scene was underwhelming, such small explosion waking up the God of Destruction.some awe-inspiring Effects and high-powered destruction should have set the tone/premise for a movie in decade.
considering these movies are also fan service masked behind lost years.

saiyan god looked underwhelming.

the fights were underwhelming.(natural disaster Earthquake played a huge part in it)

too much red herrings due to Akira Toriyama forgetting about SSJ2 and SSJ3 Goku and Mystic form of Gohan.

Vegeta surviving Punch to his skull from Beerus but Android 18 breaks his arm.The difference between Vegeta-Beerus and Vegeta-18 is quite big.

Where is Yajirobe?

No sense of Peril/Imminent Danger. Beerus threatening felt tacked on which was totally unnecessary.


The Pros. of BOG, IMO
The introduction of God of Destruction Beerus and Whis.
hleV wrote:DB is good because Toriyama + Editor, not just Toriyama. Stop defending BOG only because it happened to deliver what you enjoy about DB, because it didn't deliver what many others enjoy about DB.
I, too would have the same opinion because without that particular editor he basically made a superman story in his new DB Minus.
his earlier story where the planet destruction didn't play a significant part in sending Goku to earth.
earlier Goku was just another saiyan child like many others before him who sole purpose to to take over planets now it is last surviving saiyan whose father wanted to save him from imminent death and so on.
Last edited by Mr.Judge on Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:11 pm

hleV wrote:If more than just a few people find that something is wrong, then something has to be wrong.
No. That's just personal taste. You alone are not the personal taste-maker for each and every single other person in the world.

See: big blockbuster movies. See: gigantic pop stars. Tons of people love that stuff while, at the exact same time, tons of people hate that stuff.

Dragon Ball is as mainstream of a cartoon as you can get. Even fans within its own fandom are going to disagree about stuff.

That's what makes fandom beautiful, and it's what makes your responses here so utterly heartbreaking, unfathomable, irritating, and unnecessary.

We get it. You don't like the movie. Enough is enough. Stop playing the victim, stop attacking other people, and stop your overall nonsense. It's not going to be tolerated any further. Your account access will be fully, completely, and permanently revoked if this continues. This part of the conversation is 100% over and not up for negotiation.
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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:09 pm

hleV wrote:If more than just a few people find that something is wrong, then something has to be wrong.
Thats the same logic people ran with during the dark ages. Its almost 2015. Do you not see whats wrong with that?
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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by i'mfuckingevil » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:23 pm

Okay. I think what hlev meant was that if a lot of people are saying the same things in flaws for a certain thing, there has to be a point being made. Nevermind your dark ages reference, one example is the Me3 ending, although a lot more people had a problem with that than with BOG.

And to address finally how I said it also bothers me how others are excited for this stuff... yes, perhaps it shouldn't matter to me what other people are excited for, but it just baffles me how there aren't that many others that don't see what I see, and that's that all these new movies are milking the series and ruining the DB lore. I do not agree that "the best way to keep DB alive" is to come out with new movies every few years. Hell no, tha to me is obvious cash grab off an old franchise that's got a legacy and fan base.

I keep using Haryy Potter s an example because it is the same thing to me. I see facebook comments saying things lke "I want more movies!" And to that again I say, why? Don't you realize that is just J.K Rowling going back to one thing that she knows will continue to bring her heaps of money? HP is her life's work, and that's what DB is for Akira, something he knows would bring him money if he went back to it. But for me asa fan, the output ain't quality, just the realization that they won't stop milking it to death.

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:16 pm

i'mfuckingevil wrote:but it just baffles me how there aren't that many others that don't see what I see, and that's that all these new movies are milking the series and ruining the DB lore.
Let's not pretend that Dragon Ball wasn't completely made-by-committee in the first place just to sell another Toriyama product to young kids ("We'll let you stop Dr. Slump if you come up with something else that can be popular and oh hey your kung-fu one-shots did well!"). The whole thing always has been, is, and always will be designed to take your money.

I partially agree with the first part, and depending on the product (yes to Episode of Bardock, absolutely not with Battle of Gods), agree and/or disagree with the latter part.

I'm just not ranting and raving about it at every chance I get and going on a rampage when someone may happen to disagree with me about it. Furthermore, yes, people to varying degrees have stated these kinds of things before. It's nothing new that's being brought to the table. You're not going to get 100% of the same people responding about it and regurgitating their thoughts about it, though, because it's something that's already been picked apart and most people probably feel they've said their two cents on it by now. That's the thing about a community as large and long-lasting as this: new people will come in, assume they've had this gigantic revelation, and then will - unfortunately for them, to be honest - be met with total apathy or lack-of-willingness-to-converse from people who've already been through it before.

I know for me, I just don't have it in me to get into a full-scale conversation about how and why new things aren't totally destroying the franchise for me. We've been receiving new products for years now, and in 2014 it's just not worth it to me. I have to apologize for that, because clearly you're looking for that conversation. It's completely my fault that I'm just not willing to engage on that level.

But let it be known that people both agree and disagree with you, and that's what's so fucking fantastic about this series: fans have different thoughts about it.
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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by Zephyr » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:21 pm

i'mfuckingevil wrote:Okay. I think what hlev meant was that if a lot of people are saying the same things in flaws for a certain thing, there has to be a point being made. Nevermind your dark ages reference, one example is the Me3 ending, although a lot more people had a problem with that than with BOG.

And to address finally how I said it also bothers me how others are excited for this stuff... yes, perhaps it shouldn't matter to me what other people are excited for, but it just baffles me how there aren't that many others that don't see what I see, and that's that all these new movies are milking the series and ruining the DB lore.
I think you're still missing the point that an argument or belief being popular does not entail that it is valid or sound. That of course doesn't mean that it isn't valid or sound, but the appeal to an argument's popularity alone is no way to support it.

And I'd argue that the series was being milked and having its lore screwed with well before the manga even ended. The series being continued and the series's lore receiving retcons and modifications does not, by itself, suffice for a premise that supports the conclusion of "and thus this new material is bad" unless you also want to argue that a lot of the source material was bad in much the same way. And if you desire to argue that (which you're very well entitled to), then I'd inquire about the legitimacy of your apparent reverence for the series if it is so rife with flaws that detract from your enjoyment of it.

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by i'mfuckingevil » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:00 pm

Zephyr wrote:
I think you're still missing the point that an argument or belief being popular does not entail that it is valid or sound. That of course doesn't mean that it isn't valid or sound, but the appeal to an argument's popularity alone is no way to support it.
Are you suggesting that even though BOG is canon, I can make an argument that it is non canon?

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:03 pm

i'mfuckingevil wrote:
Zephyr wrote:
I think you're still missing the point that an argument or belief being popular does not entail that it is valid or sound. That of course doesn't mean that it isn't valid or sound, but the appeal to an argument's popularity alone is no way to support it.
Are you suggesting that even though BOG is canon, I can make an argument that it is non canon?
There is no canon.
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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:34 pm

i'mfuckingevil wrote:Are you suggesting that even though BOG is canon, I can make an argument that it is non canon?
A very valid argument for "this is the only canon that I accept" would be "the original manga as printed in the pages of Weekly Shonen Jump, as written/illustrated/conceived by Akira Toriyama, between 1984-1995".
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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by ImmaDeker » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:37 pm

Canon has always been a subjective concept meant to accomplish a goal specific to the creator of said canon, often outside of the concerns of the creator of the original work.

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by hleV » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:12 am

rereboy wrote:many people like everything in Dragon Ball AND Battle of Gods
That is good to know. I like Dragon Ball AND Star Wars.
rereboy wrote:How you can't understand from this that not liking BOG is just your opinion is beyond me.
Not liking BOG is my opinion? Some like it, some don't. Perhaps I went overboard with the idea that "there's something wrong with BOG", I should've said "BOG is not the same DB experience and many people who liked DB see that and in turn, dislike it". Now whether BOG not being the same experience is good or bad, that's subjective. Is it a valid reason to dislike it, though? YES. So, again, I'm asking to stop defending BOG only because it happened to appeal to you (speaking in general), let alone deem others' reasons (such as quite a few contradictions in a short period of time, ass-pulled additions to what we knew about DB and lack of explanations thereof, etc.) for disliking BOG invalid or not worth arguing about. In return, I don't go and try to invalidate the reasons people like BOG for.

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by dae428 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:51 am

hleV wrote:
rereboy wrote:many people like everything in Dragon Ball AND Battle of Gods
That is good to know. I like Dragon Ball AND Star Wars.
rereboy wrote:How you can't understand from this that not liking BOG is just your opinion is beyond me.
Not liking BOG is my opinion? Some like it, some don't. Perhaps I went overboard with the idea that "there's something wrong with BOG", I should've said "BOG is not the same DB experience and many people who liked DB see that and in turn, dislike it". Now whether BOG not being the same experience is good or bad, that's subjective. Is it a valid reason to dislike it, though? YES. So, again, I'm asking to stop defending BOG only because it happened to appeal to you (speaking in general), let alone deem others' reasons (such as quite a few contradictions in a short period of time, ass-pulled additions to what we knew about DB and lack of explanations thereof, etc.) for disliking BOG invalid or not worth arguing about. In return, I don't go and try to invalidate the reasons people like BOG for.
Isn't it kind of the point to post counter responses to what the main topic may be? I mean the point of a forum is to exchange ideas with other people, so I see nothing really all that wrong with defending your stance if it goes against your own opinion. I mean what would be the point of creating a forum where everyone would just be saying the same thing over and over again without any forms of contention?

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Re: Am I the only one who hates all these new movies?

Post by hleV » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:40 am

dae428 wrote: Isn't it kind of the point to post counter responses to what the main topic may be? I mean the point of a forum is to exchange ideas with other people, so I see nothing really all that wrong with defending your stance if it goes against your own opinion. I mean what would be the point of creating a forum where everyone would just be saying the same thing over and over again without any forms of contention?
One can always defend their stance/opinion. It's just that people seem to defend a movie as if it's completely fine as is, even though it clearly does have flaws as far as many people are concerned. Wait, don't say it... whether contradictions and other random shit are flaws is... subjective.

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