What made GT so bad ?

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Attitudefan
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by Attitudefan » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:30 am

The designs are really unimaginative in GT, and it is hard to argue that it isn't. While their choice of clothing might be slightly different, everyone is wearing casual clothing with short cropped spiky hair. Try to list the details of the characters without listing their names or personalities, back to back, and each character will be defined the same way.

Compared to Z, where in the Buu arc, Gohan is in casual clothing from highschool, or you could talk about his Saiyaman outfit; Vegeta is in his blue Saiyan style no sleeve with Saiyan boots, and Goten is a mini Goku. There's more variety there. And even EoZ, one can still try to list the way they look and it won't come about being too similar like GT.

When I try to design a character, I would really try to make them look different, where their hair down to their clothing represents their personality. In GT, I don't see much of that. Why does Goten have cropped hair like Vegeta and Gohan? Why does Gohan still have high cropped spiky hair (when he could go for a more comb over look, to show that he has grown into a professional scholar)? Why does Gohan/Goten dress the way he/they does/do? Vegeta is the only one I can say why: to fit in better on Earth, yet still look tough, like a biker (such as the leather pants lol).

EoZ Goten wears that really long, un-tucked, over-sized t-shirt to represent his laid back, carefree and lazy attitude. Vegeta wears his leather jacket but still wears parts of his Saiyan clothing from way back (such as the boots), and Gohan wears a sweater vest to show that he's sophisticated, smart, finally a scholar and maybe even a professor at some university, and a bit nerdy too (with his glasses as well). Each are clearly different and their hair, clothing, and facial accessories define who they are personality wise, their character-motivation and purpose with visual design alone. GT fails at this, hard. I cannot explain why they look the way they do, nor who or what they embody as people and their role in the plot and the in-universe society.

And then you have Bra, who looks like a Bulma clone. Bulma, in the manga, always changed her style in each arc, symbolizing her growth from a teen into a woman. She goes from a side pony-tail in the first arc, to short hair in the Saiyan arc to show that she's much more mature and older. GT, everything remains static in terms of design. They look the same, from beginning to end.

And lastly, GT is the only one that has magical growing pants when they are just regular cotton-like material (unlike Saiyan's stretchy armor - which was explained in the manga). Even Vegeta's red wife-beater shirt grows back after he reverts back from SSJ4 to his base form. Yup. That's how inconsistent and lazy they were with designs: clothing is specific to forms and not to continuity, I'm guessing, because it is easier for the animators to reference from instead of making multiple character sheets to reference from.
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:47 am

And lastly, GT is the only one that has magical growing pants when they are just regular cotton-like material (unlike Saiyan's stretchy armor - which was explained in the manga). Even Vegeta's red wife-beater shirt grows back after he reverts back from SSJ4 to his base form. Yup. That's how inconsistent and lazy they were with designs: clothing is specific to forms and not to continuity, I'm guessing, because it is easier for the animators to reference from instead of making multiple character sheets to reference from.
That's really nitpicky. Hulk's pants grow even though that doesn't make a lick of sense.
GT, everything remains static in terms of design. They look the same, from beginning to end.
It takes place over the span of a little over a year and Bulma was a lot more central to the story than Bra.
their character-motivation and purpose with visual design alone. GT fails at this, hard.
Disagree. Gohan looks like a scholar, Goten looks like a teenager or youngster, and Vegeta looks like a hardass, but a tad more civilized. It's like you hate this show so much that after bashing it for the big things you are desperately searching for other things to bash it for even though it's fine. Seriously, you criticize the design for Gohan's hair!
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:37 pm

Wow, I am rewatching GT right now after many years since highschool (First saw it as a kid in tv, then rewatched it with fansubs on highschool).

I loved the show and man, it is so f**king boring now!!!!
I am like pressing myself into sitting and watching trough.

The show was OK and fun around first 3 episodes, then it went uninteresting with weird copy-pasted situations, that doesn't make sense when I noticed myself not understanding the plot at all.
The biggest WTF starts with Mutchi Mutchi... What is the guy in cloak, who dies and his Whip is actually the ''MACHINE MUTANT VILLAIN WITH MAGIC POWERS''?... ehm, OK - Machine Lion with interesting design, shot down by rock,
but almighty Goku struggles with the lesser guys, who doesn't seem threatening at all. The fights are boring. Actually no choreography.
The Tsufurian complot doesn't make sense at all, everything was machine mutant and then in some weird revelation, that Baby actually constructed Dr. Myu to give him power -
he somewhat also remembers that his core DNA was from Tsufurian king, OK! So he actually realizes hate for Saiyans - proclaiming that he will rule the universe by machine mutants, but! Later he retcones laying eggs in people, so he will rule the universe by Tsufurian symbionts.... OK - it looks like the writers thought: ''Uh-uh, Toriyama sensei made this incredible series on the go, we will try to adopt this model!''

I am around the episode when Baby kills Goku with Ultra-Galaxy Revenge Desu Ball and I am struggling to watch more.
I remembered slightly, that the fight of Goku vs Baby before SSJ4 was awesome... It was not. Baby goes into interesting second form only to Freeza-stomach-punch Goku in the gut and then he proclaims something weird about everyone give him his bodies, er, energy and goes from cool form into badly animated one and throws ball on Goku, who receives beating for the whole episode. Starting with going SSJ3 to be punched in the face and tottaly anihilated.

I can't continue like this, maybe only to wonder, if it gets little better. Maybe I am too old already after watching many good movies and reading many bad books.

The writing made GT bad - it is a huge mess! Yeah and Plan to destroy Saiyans has actually lot better story and execution than Baby arc has.
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:46 pm

GT is incredibly boring no matter which way you slice it, but the dub made it worse by playing the same theme (or a variation of it) in EVERY SINGLE SCENE. No idea wtf they were thinking. It's godawful.
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:47 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:GT is incredibly boring no matter which way you slice it, but the dub made it worse by playing the same theme (or a variation of it) in EVERY SINGLE SCENE. No idea wtf they were thinking. It's godawful.
Well, the Japanese version has at least good voice acting and music.
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by Flame Dragon » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:07 pm

I still have no idea what the GT writers were smoking when they made this.
Image
It's not even funny.

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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:00 pm

Flame Dragon wrote:I still have no idea what the GT writers were smoking when they made this.
Image
It's not even funny.
It has cool breakbeat underlay in US version tough, but the acting doesn't help and it's awful in Japanese as well.
There it has deep house techno kick going.
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:01 pm

Later he retcones laying eggs in people, so he will rule the universe by Tsufurian symbiotes
How is that a retcon?
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by Cetra » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:16 pm

Attitudefan wrote:
And lastly, GT is the only one that has magical growing pants when they are just regular cotton-like material (unlike Saiyan's stretchy armor - which was explained in the manga). Even Vegeta's red wife-beater shirt grows back after he reverts back from SSJ4 to his base form. Yup. That's how inconsistent and lazy they were with designs: clothing is specific to forms and not to continuity, I'm guessing, because it is easier for the animators to reference from instead of making multiple character sheets to reference from.
Always this silly comment about the clothes. Have you ever thought about them being so powerful by now that they can convert energy to matter?
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by SaintEvolution » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:47 am

Well, GT is very bad, but I think that most of GT's badness were said here.

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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by MCDaveG » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:23 am

ABED wrote:
Later he retcones laying eggs in people, so he will rule the universe by Tsufurian symbiotes
How is that a retcon?
Because it came out of nowhere, he was machine mutant before saying this and even claimed, that he will rule the universe with machine mutants.
Then he changed his charater into Tsufuru in instant. It wasn't anything like ''I am your father'' in Star Wars, which had story build up and came out unexpected.
This was just lazily weird, like saying to my best friends after years: ''Hey guys, I am actually not working as a doctor but as a train driver''
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:53 am

That doesn't make it a retcon and at this point we're still learning about Baby and his powers. When Baby awakens he does so because of his hatred for Saiyans, so it wasn't out of nowhere. The machine mutants were created to give Baby the strength he needed to destroy the Saiyans.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by Flame Dragon » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:07 am

Not to mention how they ruined the few good designs they had.

This looked awesome.
Image

So of course it gets replaced with this shit.
Image

The only good designs in GT were Vegeta (without mustache), Super 17 , Nova Shenron and Omega Shenron.
Everything else is just... bleh. Goku looks horrible with the tan. Goten hair looks like shit. Gohan hair is boring. Trunks looks like a boy scout, totally shit compared to his Future counterpart.

Even SSJ4, as good as it is, could use some tweaks (like no more magic pants and actually make the fur golden, like an actual SSJ).

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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:10 am

That's a matter of taste, I like Baby's design.
Goten hair looks like shit. Gohan hair is boring. Trunks looks like a boy scout, totally shit compared to his Future counterpart.
Given your use of explitives, it seems like you have strong feelings about this. Gohan's hair is the same except for the bang. Is that really the difference between boring and not boring? A bang? Trunks looks the same, but I agree that the clothes look ridiculous, but total shit is rather strong.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:49 am

Gohan hair in GT is the same as it was EoZ... :?

Also what is with magic pants? People actually cared about that!? Y'all want a naked Saiyajin running around fighting? This series have green aliens and a random god form from Saiyans. Yet magic pants is the issue? Y'all must hate the Hulk.

Seriously what's the big deal with magic clothing?
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by Doctor. » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:22 am

TheGmGoken wrote:Gohan hair in GT is the same as it was EoZ... :?
What? No it wasn't.

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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:43 am

Doctor. wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:Gohan hair in GT is the same as it was EoZ... :?
What? No it wasn't.
Image
Image

You were saying...??
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:00 am

Doctor. wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:Gohan hair in GT is the same as it was EoZ... :?
What? No it wasn't.
EoZ Gohan
GT Gohan
A bit clearer EoZ image here.

Always annoyed me they didn't keep that haircut for Videl. She looks good with that, whereas in GT she looks a bit like EoZ Yamcha...

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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:19 am

I don't know why that picture of Gohan always makes me laugh, but I don't see much of a difference either...

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Re: What made GT so bad ?

Post by SSJ Human » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:37 am

ABED wrote:
And lastly, GT is the only one that has magical growing pants when they are just regular cotton-like material (unlike Saiyan's stretchy armor - which was explained in the manga). Even Vegeta's red wife-beater shirt grows back after he reverts back from SSJ4 to his base form. Yup. That's how inconsistent and lazy they were with designs: clothing is specific to forms and not to continuity, I'm guessing, because it is easier for the animators to reference from instead of making multiple character sheets to reference from.
That's really nitpicky. Hulk's pants grow even though that doesn't make a lick of sense.
GT, everything remains static in terms of design. They look the same, from beginning to end.
It takes place over the span of a little over a year and Bulma was a lot more central to the story than Bra.
their character-motivation and purpose with visual design alone. GT fails at this, hard.
Disagree. Gohan looks like a scholar, Goten looks like a teenager or youngster, and Vegeta looks like a hardass, but a tad more civilized. It's like you hate this show so much that after bashing it for the big things you are desperately searching for other things to bash it for even though it's fine. Seriously, you criticize the design for Gohan's hair!
The hate for this series gets ridiculous sometimes and I'm not even that big on GT. I dislike Goku being the only relevant character, Vegeta, Gohan, Krillin and Piccolo barely being in it, Goku being the only one to fight the majority of the Shadow Dragons and there being no Super Saiyan 4 Gohan, a form that would have been the only thing to make that character relevant.

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