Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:03 pm

He's more handsome. Piccolo has green skin and antennae.
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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:40 pm

Its Simply Because toriyama gave vegeta more character development instead of tossing him aside like everyone else. Piccolo could have easily been like vegeta had toriyama wanted him to be. I´m just happy he didn't forget him entirely like he did launch.

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:41 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote:He's more handsome. Piccolo has green skin and antennae.
Vegeta looks like Chucky had angry sex with a troll doll

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Kurakaio » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:16 pm

It's because Vegetable Man has hair that changes colors.

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by TheBigBoy » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:50 pm

Early 2000's DBZ AMV's set to Linkin Park music really resonated with people

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by SheonGT » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:06 pm

Vegeta goes from a great villain, as he has a connection to Goku by way of being a Saiyan (and Saiyan pride is a big part of his character) to becoming a begrudging rival which works so well because he’s so similar to Goku. Goku hit Super Saiyan first, and Vegeta strive to surpass him, which Piccolo could never do. Piccolo has a nice side. Despite sounding all gruff he’s always 100% on Goku’s side since the Saiyan saga, taking care of his kids and training them (remember Gotenks as well as Gohan obv)
Vegeta’s an asshole that threatened the earth, provoked Frieza, egged on Cell and allowed him to become perfect, and helped revive Majin Buu.
Which gives him more room to have a character arc and become a better person as he fights alongside his son and recognizes the good in goku in the Buu saga. All in all a better character
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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:47 am

I think as an audience, we've spent much more time with Vegeta as a villain than we did with Piccolo, giving Vegeta's character a lot more time to develop. He became the cool anti-hero by the Freeza arc. Piccolo merely showed up without much build, had his fight with Goku, and then immediately teamed up with him like just another good guy.

Also, I think that Vegeta's similarities to Goku (humanoid, Saiyan, etc.) lend themselves to be a perfect foil to Goku's character because I personally feel like there's some kind of desire for that kind of stuff in society. Kind of like how Ryu had Ken and then Akuma. I think that the best foils are characters that are alike, but maybe one different decision set them apart. There's some connection there, which is much more palpable with Vegeta than Piccolo.

Oh, and it doesn't help that Piccolo was thrown aside. He fused with Nail, then with God, and all of that lead absolutely nowhere. Vegeta's accomplishments also generally lead nowhere, but they felt more important. The glitz and glamour that he got for every achievement was really amped up, whereas for Piccolo, it was like, "Oh and you're stronger now too... Good for you, good for you."

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:48 am

SheonGT wrote:Vegeta goes from a great villain, as he has a connection to Goku by way of being a Saiyan (and Saiyan pride is a big part of his character) to becoming a begrudging rival which works so well because he’s so similar to Goku. Goku hit Super Saiyan first, and Vegeta strive to surpass him, which Piccolo could never do. Piccolo has a nice side. Despite sounding all gruff he’s always 100% on Goku’s side since the Saiyan saga, taking care of his kids and training them (remember Gotenks as well as Gohan obv)
Vegeta’s an asshole that threatened the earth, provoked Frieza, egged on Cell and allowed him to become perfect, and helped revive Majin Buu.
Which gives him more room to have a character arc and become a better person as he fights alongside his son and recognizes the good in goku in the Buu saga. All in all a better character

I don’t agree with this.

Vegeta is basically stock shonen anime rival character. Grrr I shall surpass my rival (never does).

About the only thing we get out of Vegeta pre-Buu is begging Goku to kill Freeza so he’ll die by a Saiyajin’s hands

Piccolo starts out evil and actually grows as a character. He had no interest in playing nice with Goku. He allies with him only out of convenience. He doesn’t initially give a shit about Gohan either only kidnapping him to train him to use him to his own ends. But he does grow to care sacrificing his own life to save Gohan (and since his death means no Kami which means no Dragon Ball as far as he is aware at the time there is no reset button for him) he then becomes a trusted friend and member of the Son family.

Vegeta? Stays the same static character with no growth until the freakin Buu saga.

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:38 pm

It's because the CLASSIC AMERICAN SHOW DRAGON BALL ZEEEEEEEE started with Raditz, where Vegeta shows up only about 5 episodes in, and then remains a main character throughout the entire run, meanwhile Piccolo was already a lot of the way through his character arc, which was largely concluded with his self-sacrifice at the hand of Vegeta and Nappa, then he was totally shafted in the Freeza arc, then he was mostly a mentor character who hung back and helped out in the Cell and Boo story arcs, while Vegeta was being a massive drama queen.

And naturally, because the western Dragon Ball fandom is hard-focused on the American side of the fandom, and because of the exceptionally poor job Funi did at pretty much every aspect of handling OG Dragon Ball from the moment they decided to cut their original dub of it short at 13 episodes, Piccolo ends up being seen as little more than "That guy from season 1"

Piccolo is my favourite character, and if you ask me, he's one of the most deep, rich, complex characters in the entire franchise.

But really, though I will always note that anyone who calls themself a Dragon Ball fan really owes it to themself to watch through the original series or read the full manga if they haven't already, everyone's opinion on which characters are best is equally valid.
except mine. my opinion is more valid than anyone else's. because i'm always right. and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. :twisted:
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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Waluigiman » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:45 pm

Marketing reasons: Piccolo has no transformations. And too many people only care about the saiyans and the villains.

Relevance reasons: Piccolo has been demoted and because of that he is not doing anything significant or impressive enough that could make him as popular if not more than Vegeta.
The staff seems to be more influenced by their fans/marketing in comparison to the previous years so the chances of doing something to help the character are low.

Personality reasons: People might miss him as the fiercer and much more boastful fighter he was once before he became too soft for them. To the fans, they might be thinking that he lost his dynamic with the other characters to the point he is no longer Piccolo even if it makes sense for the change as he has the traits of Nail and Kami. Vegeta lost nearly if not all his evil in Dragon Ball Super but he is still more popular because he still has some flaws that makes him more relatable and has more screen time to help him.

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Forte224 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:47 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
SheonGT wrote:Vegeta goes from a great villain, as he has a connection to Goku by way of being a Saiyan (and Saiyan pride is a big part of his character) to becoming a begrudging rival which works so well because he’s so similar to Goku. Goku hit Super Saiyan first, and Vegeta strive to surpass him, which Piccolo could never do. Piccolo has a nice side. Despite sounding all gruff he’s always 100% on Goku’s side since the Saiyan saga, taking care of his kids and training them (remember Gotenks as well as Gohan obv)
Vegeta’s an asshole that threatened the earth, provoked Frieza, egged on Cell and allowed him to become perfect, and helped revive Majin Buu.
Which gives him more room to have a character arc and become a better person as he fights alongside his son and recognizes the good in goku in the Buu saga. All in all a better character

I don’t agree with this.

Vegeta is basically stock shonen anime rival character. Grrr I shall surpass my rival (never does).

About the only thing we get out of Vegeta pre-Buu is begging Goku to kill Freeza so he’ll die by a Saiyajin’s hands

Piccolo starts out evil and actually grows as a character. He had no interest in playing nice with Goku. He allies with him only out of convenience. He doesn’t initially give a shit about Gohan either only kidnapping him to train him to use him to his own ends. But he does grow to care sacrificing his own life to save Gohan (and since his death means no Kami which means no Dragon Ball as far as he is aware at the time there is no reset button for him) he then becomes a trusted friend and member of the Son family.

Vegeta? Stays the same static character with no growth until the freakin Buu saga.
Vegeta surpasses Goku on more than one occasion though. He starts out stronger than him, Piccolo says even Goku couldn't beat him after Vegeta destroys 19, and he surpasses Goku in the RoSaT. Just because he didn't surpass him at the end of the story doesn't mean he never surpassed him.

And Vegeta has plenty of growth/development before Boo. Are you serious? He went from a villain that cared about no one, to a crying broken man begging for his most hated person to win against his other most hated person, to a man that raged when his son was killed, to a man that lost his way when his most hated rival died, to a man that got complacent in his family life, had a mid-life crisis, and then came around when he realized what was truly important to him. And of course, finally he accepted his rival's status as the absolute best and was content with that.

Just because his development wasn't shoved in your face, that doesn't mean it wasn't there. There are plenty of subtle hints at his development throughout his presence in the show.

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Forte224 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:49 pm

Robo4900 wrote:It's because the CLASSIC AMERICAN SHOW DRAGON BALL ZEEEEEEEE started with Raditz, where Vegeta shows up only about 5 episodes in, and then remains a main character throughout the entire run, meanwhile Piccolo was already a lot of the way through his character arc, which was largely concluded with his self-sacrifice at the hand of Vegeta and Nappa, then he was totally shafted in the Freeza arc, then he was mostly a mentor character who hung back and helped out in the Cell and Boo story arcs, while Vegeta was being a massive drama queen.

And naturally, because the western Dragon Ball fandom is hard-focused on the American side of the fandom, and because of the exceptionally poor job Funi did at pretty much every aspect of handling OG Dragon Ball from the moment they decided to cut their original dub of it short at 13 episodes, Piccolo ends up being seen as little more than "That guy from season 1"

Piccolo is my favourite character, and if you ask me, he's one of the most deep, rich, complex characters in the entire franchise.

But really, though I will always note that anyone who calls themself a Dragon Ball fan really owes it to themself to watch through the original series or read the full manga if they haven't already, everyone's opinion on which characters are best is equally valid.
except mine. my opinion is more valid than anyone else's. because i'm always right. and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. :twisted:
Vegeta holds more popularity than Piccolo in more places than just America. I don't know why you're acting like that isn't true, but whatever.

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:56 pm

Forte224 wrote:Vegeta holds more popularity than Piccolo in more places than just America. I don't know why you're acting like that isn't true, but whatever.
Yes, you're right. It's true in Australia too. :P

As members of the western fandom, our experience is very much dominated by the American opinion and general way of things -- remember, even the UK and Canada, which had very different exposure to the show than the USA and Australia during the TV run now only really have Funimation's home video to go off of, and since there's no TV airings, very limited streaming, and various other factors at play, America really does dominate the fandom not just in terms of almost certainly being the largest part of the fandom, but also through the American fandom's influence on the rest of the English fandom.
So, unless you're part of a foreign section of the fandom or two, it's hard to judge the popularity of characters outside of the English fandom, and thus outside the American influence.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Forte224 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:59 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Forte224 wrote:Vegeta holds more popularity than Piccolo in more places than just America. I don't know why you're acting like that isn't true, but whatever.
Yes, you're right. It's true in Australia too. :P

As members of the western fandom, our experience is very much dominated by the American opinion and general way of things -- remember, even the UK and Canada, which had very different exposure to the show than the USA and Australia during the TV run now only really have Funimation's home video to go off of, and since there's no TV airings, very limited streaming, and various other factors at play, America really does dominate the fandom even outside of its influence on other English-speaking fans who would interact with the English fandom.
So, it's hard to judge the popularity of characters outside of the English fandom, and thus the American influence.
You can look at marketing alone and realize that Vegeta is more popular worldwide, even in Japan. I'm not saying which is the better character here, but this all seems pretty obvious that it's not an exclusively western thing.

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:03 pm

Four things:

1. supah sayinszzzzzz
2. Piccolo is a silent hermit, Vegeta is a brash idiot loudmouth and some people relate to that
3. Piccolo's development ended with the saiyan saga, Vegeta's continued all the way through DBZ
4. If Vegeta's fights were always immediately before the main event, then Piccolo's fights were the non-televised undercard
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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Forte224 wrote:You can look at marketing alone and realize that Vegeta is more popular worldwide, even in Japan. I'm not saying which is the better character here, but this all seems pretty obvious that it's not an exclusively western thing.
Marketing is all about selling what's new. And what's new is Super. And what's going on in Super is basically a direct follow-up to the mid-late Z story arcs, where Piccolo simply isn't all that relevant.
Using marketing as a measure of what's popular is flawed reasoning for a lot of reasons, many of which I don't think I'm qualified to get into right now.

That said, one thing I think I probably should have clarified previously is that I will freely and openly admit that I do not think my explanation is airtight. I'm sure there are other factors that could lead to Vegeta being more popular, particularly since he's had so much focus in the more recent entries in the franchise... But this isn't something we can exactly quantify objectively, and I doubt any one reason is entirely responsible for the phenomenon being observed by this thread... So, while I stand by what I said, it very well may not be the sole reason, the main reason, or even a significant part of why. I'm just putting out my thoughts on it, that's all.

Hell, it may even be that Piccolo is significantly more popular than Vegeta in every part of the world, but because the conversation is always surrounding Vegeta in a modern context, people simply leave their secret love for Piccolo unsaid. :lol:
Cursed Lemon wrote:Four things:

1. supah sayinszzzzzz
2. Piccolo is a silent hermit, Vegeta is a brash idiot loudmouth and some people relate to that
3. Piccolo's development ended with the saiyan saga, Vegeta's continued all the way through DBZ
4. If Vegeta's fights were always immediately before the main event, then Piccolo's fights were the non-televised undercard
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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:06 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Forte224 wrote:Vegeta holds more popularity than Piccolo in more places than just America. I don't know why you're acting like that isn't true, but whatever.
Yes, you're right. It's true in Australia too. :P

As members of the western fandom, our experience is very much dominated by the American opinion and general way of things -- remember, even the UK and Canada, which had very different exposure to the show than the USA and Australia during the TV run now only really have Funimation's home video to go off of, and since there's no TV airings, very limited streaming, and various other factors at play, America really does dominate the fandom not just in terms of almost certainly being the largest part of the fandom, but also through the American fandom's influence on the rest of the English fandom.
So, unless you're part of a foreign section of the fandom or two, it's hard to judge the popularity of characters outside of the English fandom, and thus outside the American influence.
So Latin America, where Dragon Ball is not just "a fad"" but almost a religion con go fuck off, right?
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:51 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:So Latin America, where Dragon Ball is not just "a fad"" but almost a religion con go fuck off, right?
1. When did I ever say Dragon Ball is just "a fad"? What could possibly lead you to believe I think that?
Or do you mean to say that you believe that's the case in the USA? In which case, I... Really don't know what to tell 'ya...

2. The point I was trying to make by focusing on the USA was that our observations in the English fandom are very narrowly pushed into basically whatever the USA thinks, so Vegeta may not be more popular than Piccolo, and it just seems that way because the American fandom seems to favour Vegeta. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough, but with that in mind, how does Latin America come into this?
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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Michsi » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:25 pm

Wow...this thread is old :lol:

Long story short, Vegeta has something I would call mainstream appeal, while Piccolo is more niche.

While I always say his character design is one of the better ones of the franchise, I can also see it as being off-putting for many. Bald, antennae, weird pink patches on his limbs. Not to mention the asexual thing as well, given how many jokes have been made about that.

Namekians are also far less interesting that saiyans. TFS hit the nail on the head when they pointed out that Piccolo's background as a demon was cooler. His two power-ups gave him nothing new design-wise; the last fusion technically "diluted" the old Piccolo everyone knew and loved with the personality of a character few cared for. In the end, he even lost his fighting role. Thinking about it, it's pretty impressive he stayed as popular as he is now.

Vegeta, on the other hand, gets really lucky. Aside from being more conventionally attractive by DB standards, he is also the main villain of the saga most people started DB with; is a prince; is a saiyan; has the super saiyan transformation; and his abrasive nature is entertaining for many. And another immensely important factor: a love story, such as it is. They struck gold with the 'bad boy meets sassy scientist' turn. I remember looking this up out of curiosity many years ago, and the vast majority of DB fan fiction was about Bulma and Vegeta. There's a reason DBS is so keen on using them as a couple so often.

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Re: Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:37 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:So Latin America, where Dragon Ball is not just "a fad"" but almost a religion con go fuck off, right?
1. When did I ever say Dragon Ball is just "a fad"? What could possibly lead you to believe I think that?
Or do you mean to say that you believe that's the case in the USA? In which case, I... Really don't know what to tell 'ya...

2. The point I was trying to make by focusing on the USA was that our observations in the English fandom are very narrowly pushed into basically whatever the USA thinks, so Vegeta may not be more popular than Piccolo, and it just seems that way because the American fandom seems to favour Vegeta. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough, but with that in mind, how does Latin America come into this?
I know you didnt. I'm indeed saying that's the case in the USA.

And you said America, Americans etc. Please be more specific and say USA instead. I will apologize because 1- I'm being utterly unfairly harsh on you. 2-Because you were arguing AGAISNT USA Centrism 3-I love you man, you are one of my fave members.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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