Why is Vegeta more popular than Piccolo?

[Kakacarrottop]

Now before Vegeta supporters chime in and say they're nothing alike hear me out first, To me they are essentially the exact same character type with both starting off as genocidal villains who wanted to kill Goku, eventually morphing into grumpy loner good guys. They also got the same amount of screen time. Vegeta is far more popular among the fanbase (especially casual Youtube type fans) and more iconic. I feel Piccolo got shafted in character development and fighting post-Cell arc because Vegeta had gotten so popular and basically usurped his role in the show, thus meaning Piccolo had to be turned into some sort of irrelevant nanny making him even less popular among most fans. This is evidenced by the fact the original idea of "Majin Piccolo" was changed to "Majin Vegeta". Do you think Vegeta is more popular because he was a Saiyan and could go SSJ, thus keeping him relevant in the later sagas?, was it because Vegeta got a hot wife while Piccolo essentially remained single his entire life? or was it just because he simply acted more badass? What are your thoughts on this?

[Saiga]

"Majin Piccolo" is nothing but a rumour started by Piccolo fans.

Vegeta was probably more popular because as a villain, he made a much bigger impact and pushed Goku a lot further than Piccolo did - he actually beat Goku. Then on Namek he spent most of it being active while Piccolo didn't come in later and had a relatively minimal role. The Freeza arc was not kind to Piccolo.

[Hellspawn28]

Vegeta is a saiyan and he has been Goku's arch enemy for the longest time. He also been a villain more then once (Once in the Saiyan saga, again in the Buu saga and again in GT).

[TheLegend23]

I think the fact that vegeta is a saiyan and can turn super saiyan plays a big roll in this argument.

[LordCrumb]

It depends what stage Vegeta became 'more' popular than Piccolo, and how they determined that (Manga readers or Anime viewers?).

If you mean by the end of the whole series.. Vegeta had the way better character arc. Brought up by a Prince, ruled by an evil tyrant, sent to destroy planets and kill everything.. encounters Goku, gets pushed to his limits and comes back for more but gets side tracked by other events. you know the rest.

[KentalSSJ6]

He can have blonde spiky hair.

[RandomGuy96]

Now before Vegeta supporters chime in and say they're nothing alike hear me out first, To me they are essentially the exact same character type with both starting off as genocidal villains who wanted to kill Goku, eventually morphing into grumpy loner good guys.

Piccolo = Tenshinhan

Vegeta = Freeza

They also got the same amount of screen time. Vegeta is far more popular among the fanbase (especially casual Youtube type fans) and more iconic. I feel Piccolo got shafted in character development and fighting post-Cell arc because Vegeta had gotten so popular and basically usurped his role in the show, thus meaning Piccolo had to be turned into some sort of irrelevant nanny making him even less popular among most fans.

Vegeta's sole combat contributions in the Buu arc consist of blowing away an irrelevant weakling that Piccolo could easily blow away, seemingly fighting evenly with Goku (but Goku reveals later that he was toying with Vegeta and could've one-shotted him at any time), getting utterly fuck-stomped by Fat Buu, then getting stomped again by Pure Buu. I don't think his Buu arc fights have a lot to do with this.

This is evidenced by the fact the original idea of "Majin Piccolo" was changed to "Majin Vegeta"

Except that never happened.

Do you think Vegeta is more popular because he was a Saiyan and could go SSJ, thus keeping him relevant in the later sagas?, was it because Vegeta got a hot wife while Piccolo essentially remained single his entire life? or was it just because he simply acted more badass? What are your thoughts on this?

He was relevant in battle slightly longer, he could transform into a Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan Grade II/Super Saiyan 2, he had a much more "badass" and active role in the Freeza arc, he had a slightly greater role than Piccolo in the Cell arc (even if said role consisted of being a whiny, petulant brat), and Toriyama induced PIS and retcons to give him some last-minute wanking in the Buu arc.

[JamesOwnz]

What kind of PIS and retcons?

[Videlphia76ers]

Vegeta was the second or 3rd strongest hero in Z and screaming all the time makes you more recognizable than the stern green man.

[RandomGuy96]

What kind of PIS and retcons?

-Goku suddenly revealing he could have beaten Fat Buu.
-Buu being retconned from a fat childish blob to a scrawny feral beast who only turned into a blob by eating a fat guy.
-Goku and Vegeta refusing to just use the Potara earrings to kill Pure Buu.
-Goku and Vegeta refusing to do fusion dance while Mr. Buu and Pure Buu are fighting.
-Goku and Vegeta refusing to teleport in Gohan or Gotenks to one-shot Pure Buu.
-Goku and Vegeta refusing to fight Buu together.
-Buu suddenly forgetting he has super speed.
-Base Goku being able to react to Buuhan's movements somehow.
-Base Goku being able to dodge an enraged Pure Buu's attack somehow.
-Buu forgetting that he can copy techniques.
-Vegetto coming up with the dumbest plan ever to defeat Buu, when he could have just killed him before undoing the damage with the dragon balls.
-Vegetto revealing that he's immune to Buu's magic for no real reason, to the point that he can still fight and talk as a jawbreaker.

Off the top of my head.

[Rocketman]

Piccolo's character arc is cut in half by the line between DB and Z. Him being a villain is thought of as a far-off thing, and he gets basically no time as a surly anti-hero/technically-allied villain, unlike Vegeta's separate plots throughout the Namek and Android arcs.

[Regarder]

I think it's because Vegeta is hotblooded and ticked off a lot, and he's Goku's rival (or is considered to be). Piccolo was more coolheaded and his relationship to Goku had totally receded by that point. Vegeta's arc flows through the last two overall story arcs of the series, whereas Piccolo is more or less just there in terms of story.

A lot of fans like Vegeta because he's "badass" and "cool", but I always liked him because he's a big baby with an ego complex who can't handle losing. It plays off Goku, who always seemed like the real "badass" to me. Goku doesn't like losing, but he looks forwards to someone being stronger than him because it's a challenge, whereas Vegeta insists he's the strongest to begin with (except for that damn Kakkarotto... who I'm actually totally stronger than really somehow), so he gets ticked off when someone exceeds him. Even against Cell, he just assumed his Perfect form would give him a good fight, but then he can't deal with it at all when it turns out he's been bettered again. It's really not just Goku, but everybody who's stronger than him who pisses him off.

In many ways, Vegeta is the character you're supposed to love to hate, but he also redeems himself (YMMV on whether that was effectively done or not), so he has a real character arc. I'm not sure how many characters in DB really have character arcs in that way. Piccolo goes from bad to good, but it's all done through him training Goku's son, so it seems pretty abrupt. The point is, it's never used to create dramatic tension like Vegeta's rivalry with Goku is.

Incidentally, I think that going forward, one of the problems with Vegeta is that that arc is finished, and that he only works as a character because of Goku. A lot of the fans who see Vegeta as "badass" want him to be the hero, and they think that Toriyama shortchanged him, but as I mentioned, I think the reason that he's popular in the first place is because he's a frustrated boastful narcissist who's always getting screwed over, and he hates the main character for his easy skill and probably for his optimism and cheerfulness as well (hence "clown). It makes him fun.

Outside of that arc, he becomes like Piccolo, except less cool because he's not green with a rad cape and turban.

[ZazamPow]

I think it's because Vegeta is hotblooded and ticked off a lot, and he's Goku's rival (or is considered to be). Piccolo was more coolheaded and his relationship to Goku had totally receded by that point. Vegeta's arc flows through the last two overall story arcs of the series, whereas Piccolo is more or less just there in terms of story.

A lot of fans like Vegeta because he's "badass" and "cool", but I always liked him because he's a big baby with an ego complex who can't handle losing. It plays off Goku, who always seemed like the real "badass" to me. Goku doesn't like losing, but he looks forwards to someone being stronger than him because it's a challenge, whereas Vegeta insists he's the strongest to begin with (except for that damn Kakkarotto... who I'm actually totally stronger than really somehow), so he gets ticked off when someone exceeds him. Even against Cell, he just assumed his Perfect form would give him a good fight, but then he can't deal with it at all when it turns out he's been bettered again. It's really not just Goku, but everybody who's stronger than him who pisses him off.

In many ways, Vegeta is the character you're supposed to love to hate, but he also redeems himself (YMMV on whether that was effectively done or not), so he has a real character arc. I'm not sure how many characters in DB really have character arcs in that way. Piccolo goes from bad to good, but it's all done through him training Goku's son, so it seems pretty abrupt. The point is, it's never used to create dramatic tension like Vegeta's rivalry with Goku is.

Incidentally, I think that going forward, one of the problems with Vegeta is that that arc is finished, and that he only works as a character because of Goku. A lot of the fans who see Vegeta as "badass" want him to be the hero, and they think that Toriyama shortchanged him, but as I mentioned, I think the reason that he's popular in the first place is because he's a frustrated boastful narcissist who's always getting screwed over, and he hates the main character for his easy skill and probably for his optimism and cheerfulness as well (hence "clown). It makes him fun.

Outside of that arc, he becomes like Piccolo, except less cool because he's not green with a rad cape and turban.

I hate to admit this but everything in your analysis is totally correct.

Vegeta's still a badass to me though...

[Cure Dragon 255]

He's a Saiyan, Piccolo isnt.

There, thread over.

LOL.

[Dbzk1999]

What kind of PIS and retcons?

-Goku suddenly revealing he could have beaten Fat Buu.
-Buu being retconned from a fat childish blob to a scrawny feral beast who only turned into a blob by eating a fat guy.
-Goku and Vegeta refusing to just use the Potara earrings to kill Pure Buu.
-Goku and Vegeta refusing to do fusion dance while Mr. Buu and Pure Buu are fighting.
-Goku and Vegeta refusing to teleport in Gohan or Gotenks to one-shot Pure Buu.
-Goku and Vegeta refusing to fight Buu together.
-Buu suddenly forgetting he has super speed.
-Base Goku being able to react to Buuhan's movements somehow.
-Base Goku being able to dodge an enraged Pure Buu's attack somehow.
-Buu forgetting that he can copy techniques.
-Vegetto coming up with the dumbest plan ever to defeat Buu, when he could have just killed him before undoing the damage with the dragon balls.
-Vegetto revealing that he's immune to Buu's magic for no real reason, to the point that he can still fight and talk as a jawbreaker.

Off the top of my head.

Wouldn't this be more CIS than PIS?

[Cure Dragon 255]

What the HECK do PIS and CIS mean anyway?

Also, I want to add more to the discussion. I think it has more to do with the fact that Z is more popular than the original Dragon Ball anime and first half of the manga. Its not that people dont like Piccolo, its just that many just ignore the first anime and focus on Z only. In fact, he IS more liked with people that watched DB first.

[Lord Beerus]

Vegeta had more character development, contributed more to the plot and has flashier techniques. Also this speech is pretty damn awesome.

Also, because he has PPRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDEEEEEE!!!!

[ricky84]

I think it's because Vegeta is hotblooded and ticked off a lot, and he's Goku's rival (or is considered to be). Piccolo was more coolheaded and his relationship to Goku had totally receded by that point. Vegeta's arc flows through the last two overall story arcs of the series, whereas Piccolo is more or less just there in terms of story.

A lot of fans like Vegeta because he's "badass" and "cool", but I always liked him because he's a big baby with an ego complex who can't handle losing. It plays off Goku, who always seemed like the real "badass" to me. Goku doesn't like losing, but he looks forwards to someone being stronger than him because it's a challenge, whereas Vegeta insists he's the strongest to begin with (except for that damn Kakkarotto... who I'm actually totally stronger than really somehow), so he gets ticked off when someone exceeds him. Even against Cell, he just assumed his Perfect form would give him a good fight, but then he can't deal with it at all when it turns out he's been bettered again. It's really not just Goku, but everybody who's stronger than him who pisses him off.

In many ways, Vegeta is the character you're supposed to love to hate, but he also redeems himself (YMMV on whether that was effectively done or not), so he has a real character arc. I'm not sure how many characters in DB really have character arcs in that way. Piccolo goes from bad to good, but it's all done through him training Goku's son, so it seems pretty abrupt. The point is, it's never used to create dramatic tension like Vegeta's rivalry with Goku is.

Incidentally, I think that going forward, one of the problems with Vegeta is that that arc is finished, and that he only works as a character because of Goku. A lot of the fans who see Vegeta as "badass" want him to be the hero, and they think that Toriyama shortchanged him, but as I mentioned, I think the reason that he's popular in the first place is because he's a frustrated boastful narcissist who's always getting screwed over, and he hates the main character for his easy skill and probably for his optimism and cheerfulness as well (hence "clown). It makes him fun.

Outside of that arc, he becomes like Piccolo, except less cool because he's not green with a rad cape and turban.

Thsi doesn't make much logical sense. If Vegeta constantly getting screwed over makes him popular, then nobody (especially his fanboys) would complain about him not beating the main villain nor demand that he should. Also, how do you explain all the praise and joy he got when he beats down Goku Black or God of Destruction Toppo?

Also, Vegeta was popular before his rivalry with Goku began (which was after the Namek arc).

[ricky84]

Also, its been revealed that the main reason why Vegeta is frequently shortchanged by Toriyama is simply because he doesn't like him, not for any narrative/thematic reasons.

[sintzu]

Simple, Toriyama did (and continues to do) more with him compared to Piccolo. Piccolo's role pretty much died with his defeat against 1st form Cell while Vegeta's continued to grow to where he's the 2nd main character in Super.

Also, its been revealed that the main reason why Vegeta is frequently shortchanged by Toriyama is simply because he doesn't like him.

When has Vegeta been shortchanged ? Vegeta has been front and center from the first time arc he debuted in and his role has grown ever since. Also, when was it ever said Toriyama supposedly shortchanged him for not liking him ? Just because some Vegeta fanboys think he's shortchanged doesn't mean he is.